The 75+ still has more net worth than 55-64. It's clear from this graph that Buddy is thinking about reaching people with the net worth. That is a smart move. Hearing that Buddy spends half the year at his house in Key West (plus radio station) says to me he is not wrong, plus I bielieve the 55 plus crowd are the only ones who still care about radio. With the WECK 2 thing, a person I know who is close to Buddy says that he thought it could be taking cume and attention away from Big WECK. I can see that happening. I also heard that he wanted to go up against against WJYE this year with traditional over-the-air Christmas beginning in November, as he feared that 96.1 would get new people sampling and those people would stay. It looks like that happened. He has also predicted that Audacy/Citadel will spin 1077, and he will get it. I listen to WECK on my alexa and it appears they are playing some songs that are leaning toward a 97 Rock slant. Not sure why. I never know what to believe on this board as so many have opinions, but my guess is buddy always thinking ad most likely concerned about the last few books. Before that they reached a 4.8 share, and a few 4 share books. Something is going on. Best station in Buffalo right now in my opinion is 104.1. They are steady and informative
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BIG WECK 2?
- Thread starter SirRoxalot
- Start date
Maybe you should ask buddy for his p and l's. How would you possibly know that oldies is not the best way. A person told me who is in management in the buffalo market that according to the miller kaplan reports, a company that does the revenue reporting that buddy does not report too, indicicated that according to the miller kaplan by matter of deduction, that weck has to be the 7th-8th billing station in buffalo. He said "it has to be". I am sure that money in the accounting reports not be accounted for is not going to wber or wxrl country. Would propbably say its not going to wbuf, wlkk , wedg or even wjye either.,
You're talking to the wrong person. You need to talk to ad agencies. Buddy is a super-salesman. Not everybody is Buddy. This is what he wants to do. He does whatever it takes to make money with WECK. Bill Yuhnke is another example of someone who is willing to spend his own personal money to do radio for over 65s. Good for him.
Reality 2024= WECK is an AM station with some low power FM translators. Oldies is likely the best format option. Realistically, what else would do better than what they have now? Other formats have been tried on this station with underwhelming results...
Here is what you have:
- A radio pro, Buddy, who has been in the market making relationships for decades.
- A market that is very stable with few people moving there from outside: a "traditional market".
- A market that is older than the national average.
- A format that appeals to those over 50 where "over 50" is half the market
- A market with lots of local direct business.
- A group of three FM translators that cover 80% of the market population.
- Translators that cover the "sales radius" of almost all the stores in the market.
- An unduplicated format that has significant appeal in a market that has lower than average ethnic populations.
No matter how hard you try tbolt, you can't make everything on the radio negative and terrible.
Why do you have to "awfulize" every station, owner, talent and programmer?
Total BS. Listeners don't care who owns a Radio station.
Since WECK is still in business, Oldies is obviously a great choice. What is negative about that? Maybe you should direct your wrath at the people saying that Oldies is a waste of time. That includes yourself. It's absurd to say that only Buddy is capable of having success with an Oldies format. It could work in other markets, but as you've said countless times -- the return is too low to justify the effort...
There appears to be a distinct and sizeable difference in the listening habits and disposable (liquidity) income between 55-64 and 65+. Oldies is without question a 65+ format, arguably 70+. In Buffalo (Erie and Niagara counties), for reasons previously stated, the format fits and make money.
As to format appeal, Classic Rock has morphed into a strong 55-64 format (which continues to attract a significant shares of Men 18-34, 25-44) and is charging toward 65-74 appeal.
A 74 year old was born in 1950 and came of age musically ten years earlier, 1962-65 ... the Vietnam war beginning to attract attention as ranks broke pro and con; JFK, RFK, MLK ... British Invasion, Motown, Pop Music. Do the year-of-birth breakout. A 64 year old was born in 1960 and came of age musically around 1972-75 ... tail end of the Vietnam war, Nixon, gas rationing; Zeppelin, Beatles, Stones, Cream. There was a lot of flux and change going down.
The two age brackets can be as dissimilar as much as they may have threads of commonality. Women 65+ traditionally have less enthusiasm for Classic Rock and will show preference to Classic Hits which features hits, some of which may have filtered through from Album Rock (Doobie Brothers, Fleetwood Mac, Paul Simon, etc.) Women 65+ gravitate to Oldies, get their 'new music' stimulus from Country and in some cases, traditional and Hot AC.
Men 65+ will show preference to Classic Rock, with a slight-to-moderate bent to Oldies.
There's an array of fragmentation attributable to gender and demographics. The venn diagram gets pretty complicated.
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Countless radio pros knew, years before WECK flipped, that Oldies was the wide open hole in the Buffalo radio format derby. WHTT had morphed from Oldies to Greatest Hits (just another descriptor for Classic Hits) and was quite successful. It then turned hard right and went to the Mix format, which failed. Oldies begged to be adopted and WECK's decision to fill the Oldies hole was wise, both formatically and with regard to revenue. Some would say it was a no-brainer.
WHTT came to its senses, dropped Mix and returned to Classic Hits. Ironically, a certain amount of music now in rotation on WHTT comes from the music era that was offered when the station was Mix. Timing is of the essence. The Mix music blend of 2007, particularly the 90s, was a bit ahead of the curve, but right now, it's more fitting with what constitutes the ever-changing definition and demographic appeal of Classic Hits.
one thing i wonder, if he exhibits the kinda behavior on message boards, whats he like in person to employees/staff and people in the community, especially if they have a disagreement?
Except in this case, a lot of them probably do. Know who DOES care who owns a Radio Station? Local advertisers, especially in Ostrander's case. I don't like how he acts on this board, but I'll give the devil his due. He's got decades in Buffalo, and he's done his homework. He is super-serving his particular audience. I bet a lot of his advertisers and listeners also like that he ISN'T Audacy or Cumulus. Big WECK might not play anywhere else, but it doesn't have to. In this case, Ostrander is giving his listeners EXACTLY what they want, and like him or not, it's working.
As far as 107.7, why exactly does he need it? Like David Eduardo said, he's doing pretty well with WECK and its translators right now. Maybe he has an idea he wants to try. His money, his toy.
Like I said, I may not care for how he acts as a person, but I respect anyone who can make AM work in this day and age and do well enough financially to be happy with their choice.
When WECK went on the air with the Oldies format, it was like listening to WBEN and the late Star 102.5 as far as ads went. Buddy brought all his clients with him and started out with a fairly full book of business for the station. I don't think anyone else could have pulled that off in the Buffalo market.
Are they paying the same amount for spots or getting discount rates? Advertisers just want results. Buddy is not the on air product. The owner just has to stay afloat. He can now operate on his terms without having to answer to his dreaded "Corporate Bosses". Most sales reps I have known are motivated by making money. Some have integrity and others will do anything to get that sale.
Listeners are there for the Oldies. They likely have no opinion on the owner. The employees that have been fired or quit probably do. If the owner of WECK can make a fair profit for himself while providing an on air product that people want, then by all means that is admirable...
Buddy filled a largely unwanted format hole in the market, brought a lot of clients to his new radio station with him, and hired several former colleagues who also had deep sales relationships in the market. It's very likely that he offered very low rates over long terms at the beginning to get advertisers onboard. He also offered more than just his radio station, using his sales relationships to open his own agency, and has developed a relationship with a local LP TV station. He's also done more outside promotion for his endeavors than any local radio broadcaster. He started out with an on-air staff of well-known radio retirees that brought attention to his station. He still has a few well-known local names on his staff but has cut costs by using voice-tracking and using his staff to also VT his more recent acquisition in Key West. That purchase doesn't seem to have gone as well. He relatively recently added a program director who worked for decades at 97-Rock. There has been some shift in music. It's apparent that a couple of trends showed significant sampling of the revised music format, but recent trends have fallen back, perhaps showing some dissatisfaction with the new musical direction. Overall, Buddy's results have some winners and losers, but it's a work in progress.
tbolt909 the fact is regardless of spot rate or if he fires some folks (usually it takes to do dance or get fired), he is doing it and he has proven over time it is sustainable regardless of your everything is terrible everywhere emphasis. I doubt I'd want to work for Buddy but I admire what he has done and continues to do. So what if the rates are discounted. I can tell you he has integrity with his clients or he wouldn't have what he has now. And tbolt909 I know you don't understand sales. I have 90% of my business because of me. My clients know me and like me. As a result, they trust me to do what is right for them. Do people buy because it's Buddy selling them? Yep it is a large percentage of clients because they know him and like him.
SirRoxalot, I think you may be mistaken. The TV station that you are referring to that Buddy apparently runs with WECK is a full-power station, WBBZ. I looked this up at fccinfo.com. I believe it is 50,000 watts. I have You Tube TV and cannot get it, but when I had Spectum cable it was channel 5. It does have substantial ratings from someone I know at WKBW. It apparently is #4 in households 18p according to Comscore and Nielsen. Just wanted to correct that I am not seeing this is an LP TV station.
I did not say that listener care. I was referring to the elements needed for a station to be successful.
In many markets it is as there is no client base. Traditional zero-growth markets in much of the Northeast are an exception.
Not true. I say over an over that "oldies" can be successful in markets where agency business is not all-important and where ownership is dedicated to the station and... most important... has a respected and knowledgeable sales department. In this case, Buddy and WECK are prime examples.
It could work, and does in quite a few smaller markets, where the oldies station is not an afterthought from a big cluster.
You obviously, as bturner stated, know nothing about sales. Rates are not "discounted" from some "standard rate". Rates are based on what the market and station can justify. A lower audience station sells for less than a higher one. Longer term contracts get lower rates than a one-time buy for a sale. The various times of day have different rates. Wed-Fri retail buys get different rates than a Mon-Fri or Mon-Sun buy. And so on.
But his service and market reputation are part of what advertisers buy.
How many times have we all heard someone say, "I won't buy a (insert car brand) because the dealer is so high pressure"?
It's not radio, it's not the format here. It is the owner and his apparent reputation of giving a fair deal.
And instead they worry about the bank loan, making the IRS and Social Security payments, the rent, the light bill, the insurance, the utilities, the chance the transmitter may fail and require a $20,000 replacement... and much more.
Just like salespeople in any field, from medical supplies to used cars.
You have stated the obvious: in a capitalist society, we are motivated by money (along with a bunch of other things... but the money is usually #1 on the list).
You can't even say, "Nice Job, Buddy!" without a list of qualifications.
It's still channel 5 on Spectrum, FIOS and I believe also Dish & DirecTV. They benefit from being in the "good neighboord" and not buried out in "no-man's land." But, their spot prices are insanely low, lower than many radio stations in the market.
WBBZ is the WECK of the TV spectrum. It makes perfect sense that a relationship exists between the two entities. That noted, WBBZ, which airs METV, has a markedly upper-upper demo appeal. Some younguns' may tune in from time to time to catch the kitschy appeal of Gunsmoke and old black and white series shows. A friend says "hitting the dispensary" and watching the polka shows on the weekend makes him laugh hysterically. Whatever floats yer boat, I guess. Although WBBZ's programming features nursing home-and-beyond fare, the production and flow of the station is every bit "today." That's also the formula for an effective, successful Oldies or Classic Hits station: Play the hits that are 30, 40, 50 (gulp, 60?) years old, but live and promote in the present.
Which is to say, it's MeTV and MeTV radio. That synergy exists in a lot of places, driven by the owner of MeTV: Weigel. They own TV stations in a lot of places, and often either do LMA with a radio station, or make a deal with a local owner. Apparently that's what's happened here. MeTV has a syndicated radio format, and it's available to WECK if they choose to use it. But they'd have to give up local availabilities, and they'd rather keep all the money and program the station locally.