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BBC 5 on 693kHz

T

Tincap

OK, I'm spinning this off of the Montreal 690/940 topic...

For those of you interested in catching BBC 5 Live, I'm receiving it on 693 kHz right now.

At times I'm getting a rather 'hollow' sound, caused by a very slight sync delay, which must mean that I'm picking them up from at least a couple of their transmitter sites. Droitwich, running at 150kW is probably one of them, but there's nothing else listed higher than 50kW on 693kHz. Start Point or Stagshaw, each at 50kHz, may be the 2nd signal...but, I don't have the equipment to tell me which site for certain.

Happy hunting!

~BG
 
I'm also getting BBC 5 on 909kHz. Its coming in stronger here than on 693, but I'm also getting something else mixed in with it...

~BG
 
I just got something on 693, hearing a faint male voice talking, but I couldn't figure out if he was speaking English or not. The signal wasn't coming from WLW and it appeard to be not coming from a 690 station. I couldn't hear anything on 909 but a high-pitched tone and some noise. I'm using only an indoor antenna pointing N-NE/S-SW direction here in VA.

I don't kinow if this is BBC as I haven't able to identify the station.
 
ddsparxx said:
I just got something on 693, hearing a faint male voice talking, but I couldn't figure out if he was speaking English or not. The signal wasn't coming from WLW and it appeard to be not coming from a 690 station. I couldn't hear anything on 909 but a high-pitched tone and some noise. I'm using only an indoor antenna pointing N-NE/S-SW direction here in VA.

I don't kinow if this is BBC as I haven't able to identify the station.
Click to expand...

You can use BBC's iPlayer to verify (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/radio). The MW signal comes in about 10-15 secs before the on-line version does. They had a number of American guests on there last night (Superbowl talk), just to make things a little more challenging...:O

On previous evenings over 693, I've picked up a couple Spanish language signals mixed in with the Beeb, but I haven't been able to ID those.

~BG
 
I'm beginning to think it was the BBC that I heard last night. The signal was there for a little bit and slowly faded away. Thanks for the tip.
 
ddsparxx said:
I'm beginning to think it was the BBC that I heard last night. The signal was there for a little bit and slowly faded away. Thanks for the tip.
Click to expand...

No problemo! BTW BBC 5 is up again on both frequencies tonight.

~BG
 
Tincap said:
OK, I'm spinning this off of the Montreal 690/940 topic...

For those of you interested in catching BBC 5 Live, I'm receiving it on 693 kHz right now.

At times I'm getting a rather 'hollow' sound, caused by a very slight sync delay, which must mean that I'm picking them up from at least a couple of their transmitter sites. Droitwich, running at 150kW is probably one of them, but there's nothing else listed higher than 50kW on 693kHz. Start Point or Stagshaw, each at 50kHz, may be the 2nd signal...but, I don't have the equipment to tell me which site for certain.

Happy hunting!

~BG
Click to expand...

Wow, a quarter million watts of power, just to cover the U.K.?
 
FreddyE1977 said:
Tincap said:
OK, I'm spinning this off of the Montreal 690/940 topic...

For those of you interested in catching BBC 5 Live, I'm receiving it on 693 kHz right now.

At times I'm getting a rather 'hollow' sound, caused by a very slight sync delay, which must mean that I'm picking them up from at least a couple of their transmitter sites. Droitwich, running at 150kW is probably one of them, but there's nothing else listed higher than 50kW on 693kHz. Start Point or Stagshaw, each at 50kHz, may be the 2nd signal...but, I don't have the equipment to tell me which site for certain.

Happy hunting!

~BG
Click to expand...

Wow, a quarter million watts of power, just to cover the U.K.?
Click to expand...
They need it to over-ride WLW's IBOC noise ::)
 
FreddyE1977 said:
Wow, a quarter million watts of power, just to cover the U.K.?
Click to expand...

Total radiated power is more like 290kW, and is not really excessive. The big island (Great Britain), Northern Ireland and some smaller islands (but not including The Channel Island bailiwicks of Jersey and Guernsey, and the Isle of Man are Crown Dependencies) are 94,000 square miles (243,000 km²) 150kW on one main transmitter, 2 at 50kW, 1 at 25kW and 1 at 10kW, and 6 at 1kW is not excessive.

Remember 50kW on the low end of the Medium Wave band yields about a 250 mile (400kM) radius, 150kW is about 4.8dB more signal, and that might bring the radius out to 350 miles (550kM). Tripling the power may give a 20 to 30% increase in listenable signal range...With higher man-made noise levels in recent years in the UK, just like about every urbanized area on the globe, the BBC has increased power on some of their transmitters and added fill-in transmitters in an attempt to provide a listenable signal to reach the majority of the population.

The island of Great Britain is 700 miles (1100kM) lengthwise and 50 to 300 miles (80 to 500kM) widthwise, so the number and power of their transmitters seems appropriate for the land mass the BBC (VT Plc) has to cover... I have no idea what the ground conductivity of the UK is or the efficiency of their transmitting towers, however, I would estimate ground conductivity as average based on their terrain, and they are probably using quarter-wave towers.

Check out this coverage map here, and see if this is excessive, I don't think so:
http://fmscan.org/net.php?r=m&m=m&itu=G&pxf=BBC+Radio+5+Live&rg=
 
Tincap said:
OK, I'm spinning this off of the Montreal 690/940 topic...

For those of you interested in catching BBC 5 Live, I'm receiving it on 693 kHz right now.

At times I'm getting a rather 'hollow' sound, caused by a very slight sync delay, which must mean that I'm picking them up from at least a couple of their transmitter sites. Droitwich, running at 150kW is probably one of them, but there's nothing else listed higher than 50kW on 693kHz. Start Point or Stagshaw, each at 50kW, may be the 2nd signal...but, I don't have the equipment to tell me which site for certain.

Happy hunting!

~BG
Click to expand...

One might have to have an extremely directive box loop to discern from which site a transmitter's signal is emanating from. What makes it tough is that these are synchronized transmitters - the frequency of each transmitter is precisely controlled to synch with all of the other transmitters - in this case 693kHz. There would be no easy 'signature' on these signals, such as on a very detailed spectrum analyzer.

Perhaps one could use a Beverage antenna, but who is going to move such a long antenna a few degrees or less to discern one transmitter site from another? Add to that, working over a distance over 3,000 miles (4800 kM) and pointing any receiving antenna at the UK would mean probably only a fraction of a degree to a few degrees between the north and south of the country, which is only about 700 miles in length. The best method might involve some kind of mathematical calculation like triangulation and finding out from people in the region which transmitters really 'get out'. I'm not completely ruling it out that a hobbyist could identify a specific transmitter site, but it seems like the effort to find out which site is not worth the time invested using specialized receiving antennas...

Start Point is directional - Its direction is similar to that of the Zadar, Croatia (1134) transmitter site. I do recall reading on some DX blog that transmitter has been heard across the pond...
 
I'm about 90 miles west of WLW and on the 3khz bandwidth, WLW is not an issue...their analog audio dies around 695khz & their IBOC hiss starts to be a factor at 691khz. All I hear on 693khz is noise with a zero reading on the S meter...no trace of any signal. Using a Wellbrook 1530 Loop & Icom IC-R1500 receiver. No local noise here. What time is this signal most likely to show up in this area? I've never heard anything from across the pond...any other catches that might be possible in this area?
 
BobOnTheJob said:
I'm about 90 miles west of WLW and on the 3khz bandwidth, WLW is not an issue...their analog audio dies around 695khz & their IBOC hiss starts to be a factor at 691khz. All I hear on 693khz is noise with a zero reading on the S meter...no trace of any signal. Using a Wellbrook 1530 Loop & Icom IC-R1500 receiver. No local noise here. What time is this signal most likely to show up in this area? I've never heard anything from across the pond...any other catches that might be possible in this area?
Click to expand...

Usually about an hour after sunset here in Northern IL (about 0100 UTC/GMT; 7:00 p.m. CT) the 693 kHz heterodyne is audible (and others) until about an hour or so before their sunrise, around 7:20 a.m. London is 6 hours ahead of us in the CT zone, so if their sunrise is 7:20 a.m., that means daylight has begun to enter the path between the CTZ and London, therefore it is 1:00 a.m. CT. At best, there is about a 6-hour window of time in complete darkness between the two areas (because of the distance involved) The most reliable heterodynes are on 603 (France), 693 (UK), 747 (Netherlands), 837 (France), 873 (Germany) and 927 (Belgium) and start fading out in the 0500-0600 UTC (Midnight-1:00 a.m.) window. Long distance propagation on MW and LW is more reliable in the late fall, winter and early spring in the Northern Hemisphere. Propagation is also somewhat enhanced a couple of weeks before and after the equinoxes, which is about the third week of March and September.

One of many lists online of European MW stations: http://www.mediumwave.de/
This will give some insight into the "grey line", where there is night between a transmitting and receiving location:
http://dx.qsl.net/propagation/greyline.html
 
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