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Axia vs Wheatstone - Your experience?

V

VoiceOfReason

Looking anyone with hands-on experience on either / both of these systems to give their impressions, pros, and cons.

I'm considering systems for an upcoming project that will start out as a routing system using existing analog consoles, then control surfaces a way down the road as the analog consoles reach the point of no return.

It seems like cost is relatively close. I've read some opinions that Axia has exceeded Wheatstone in ingenuity and simplicity. I have heard from others things like "ooohh... Axia - not quite ready - has a few issues".
 
As much as I'd like to like the Axia stuff, I've heard the same. The hardware can have it's share of failures from what I hear. Also, it's a bit US jock unfriendly. It's sort of euro. I don't know much about Wheatstone's offerings, but if it's anything like their analog, you can plug it in and forget you even have it as far as repair is concerned. I absolutely LOVE the R55e's I have in 3 of my client's studios. I have yet to get a call about a actual failure of the things. That's saying something. I know of several folks that have put in the Logitek digital systems and have been happy with them. Occationally they have to reboot a audio server, but other than that they are really pretty good.
 
OKCRadioGuy said:
it's a bit US jock unfriendly. It's sort of euro.
Click to expand...
Interesting... As far as looks count, people overhere (Europe) say it's just too American :). I love Livewire though... In my opinion there is no easier way to go from analogue to digital, on the other hand, I don't have any serious experience with Wheatstone.
 
Potentially, a big problem with audio sent via TCP/IP, is packet delay. Buffering tends to cause problems syncing the audio from one surface to another. I don't know how, or if, Axia solved this, but it's a question that you might ask, if having the audio time-synced at all of your consoles is important to your operation. Other types of networking protocals suffer less from this issue. I don't know about Wheatstone's protocal, but I saw a demo of SAS's networked audio at NAB a few years ago and that's where I heard about the time sync issue. They made it a point to note that they didn't have the problem.
 
I have a client that has extensive Wheatstone equipment, including the E6 and G4 surfaces, as well as older D6000's with the drop in modules for the router. The bridge router system has been rock solid, allows me to shuffle audio around the plant anywhere at any time, cuts way down on the wiring expenses and by virtue of digitizing everything and sending down a cat-6, eliminates any noise pickup along the way.

No downtime on the system (knock wood), it just runs. The staff loves it as well, the ability to call things up in any studio (ISDN, production audio etc.) just by twisting a knob and pressing "take".

The Axia surfaces always look kind of Fisher Price to me. Haven't had any experience with it yet on the technical end, but really don't like the console design.
 
VoiceOfReason said:
Looking anyone with hands-on experience on either / both of these systems to give their impressions, pros, and cons.
Click to expand...

I've used and built systems from both Axia and Wheatstone. IMHO, if you are going to go IP, Axia is the only choice -- they came up with the whole idea in the first place. Wheatstone makes fine TDM boards, but I'd rather not invest in 50-year-old technology.

VoiceOfReason said:
I'm considering systems for an upcoming project that will start out as a routing system using existing analog consoles, then control surfaces a way down the road as the analog consoles reach the point of no return.
Click to expand...

You can do this with Axia, for sure. You just plug your ins and outs into their interface boxes and then when your old consoles are ready to retire, you plug the new ones into the switch. I've seen a couple of clients do this. I got the chance to tour MPR a couple of years ago, and it was fascinating to watch - they had a whole new building with Axia that was interfaced to the old Wheatstone boards in their old studios next door. I think they've since replaced the old consoles too.

VoiceOfReason said:
It seems like cost is relatively close. I've read some opinions that Axia has exceeded Wheatstone in ingenuity and simplicity. I have heard from others things like "ooohh... Axia - not quite ready - has a few issues".
Click to expand...

Well, I remember when Axia first came around, Jay Tyler was telling everyone it would never work. Then he was saying that it worked, but not well. Finally they came out with their own IP gear, and suddenly the technology was just fine! To me it looks like they basically reverse-engineered the Axia stuff. I'm sure it works, but I think it's Axia that's really doing development in this area, and Wheatstone is folloowing along.

I have installed Axia for several of my clients and I recommend it. I also have hands-on experience with Wheatstone gear. If I was after an analog airchain, I'd probably go with Audioarts - there's really no one else whose analog gear I'd buy (sorry Arrakis).

-- Doc
 
I've only had experience with Axia. The equipment allows unbelievably simple changes in routing for any of the ins and outs of the system. The latency is very low and the audio quality is very neutral. What goes in is what comes out. With their software plugin, you can output Livewire directly from your automation boxes. It makes for a very quiet plant.

The work surfaces are solid and look like they should hold up well. The customer support has been top notch with fast answers to questions.

The hard part comes in the learning curve for the software. The product has so much capability in the ways it can be configured, it is beneficial to have a factory rep get the system up and running if you are doing a total plant. Like all software controlled systems you need to keep at the software to stay fresh so when you need to make additions or re-configurations you will be on the ball.
 
Don't overlook SAS. It's underlying technology is not IP, but does support some IP connectivity. Rock solid.
(I have no affiliation with SAS, but have been involved in nearly a dozen SAS integration projects.)
 
I did a ten studio Axia installation a couple of years ago and it has performed flawlessly, with the exception of a couple of component failures, which you would expect in such a big system. One serious consideration is the heat from the Axia rack equipment. Plan for that.
 
Thing is, SAS will never do IP. Yeah, I know, Riolink blah blah blah... but Al Salci really hates IP. He's done nothing but badmouth it again and again. Too much invested in TDM.

But you can bet if they ever did it would ¢o$t :)

-- Doc
 
Oh yeah. They defiantly know how to charge plenty for stuff. I'll also say this for them though. Their support is second to none. We wanted some custom stuff done at "the old place" and they were more than happy to custom burn a prom for us to make it happen.
 
Thanks to all of you - your replies have been educational.

I think I am leaning toward Axia at this point. I like the modularity and flexibility of the system, and my experience with Telos / Omnia support has been good. I think a decentralized structure will yield maximum flexibility and scalability.

With either system I would still have a spare node or blade or two on the shelf, so infant mortality of a component or two in a large installation does not scare me as long as there is good support to back it up.

I also like SAS (I have an old 32000 in one of my plants that is still working fine and is still supported) - but cost is a significant restriction on this project.
 
BGS is the Axia dealer in the USA. They just started a promotion in which if you buy multiple Axia consoles, they will upgrade your order to include a Telos phone system too. It's a crazy good deal and the Axia consoles and Telos phone systems work together like peanut butter and jelly.
 
Axia does not use TCP/IP protocol. Their Livewire AoIP protocol is not only rock-solid reliable and the lowest latency of all competing protocols, it is used by more than 30 partner companies. After all, what good is an IP-Audio console if it only plays with itself? Better to have lots of devices you can network together. One of the inventors of the Livewire approach is Steve Church, founder of Telos, who wrote a book on the topic:

http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Over-IP...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1300645730&sr=8-1

Kmagrill said:
Potentially, a big problem with audio sent via TCP/IP, is packet delay. Buffering tends to cause problems syncing the audio from one surface to another. I don't know how, or if, Axia solved this, but it's a question that you might ask, if having the audio time-synced at all of your consoles is important to your operation. Other types of networking protocals suffer less from this issue. I don't know about Wheatstone's protocal, but I saw a demo of SAS's networked audio at NAB a few years ago and that's where I heard about the time sync issue. They made it a point to note that they didn't have the problem.
Click to expand...
 
VoiceOfReason said:
I think I am leaning toward Axia at this point. I like the modularity and flexibility of the system, and my experience with Telos / Omnia support has been good. I think a decentralized structure will yield maximum flexibility and scalability.
Click to expand...

Axia offers a 5 year warranty and 24/7 support too in case you have any "after hours" questions during your install.
 
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