Another Audacy Flip in Miami?

[DavidEduardo]

What's so wrong about thinking of up some new formats for a change and seek out some new listeners that know there is a radio on their car dashboard for a reason? Maybe they'll actually find something for them to check out on FM or AM that will be more than just tired programming and too many ads?

Actually, stations that are in less attractive ratings positions spend a lot of money looking for viable formats or format variants.

What is usually found is a niche format that is not commercially viable or a "hole" between two stations that can fragment competitors successfully.

New music formats don't come out of the radio industry. Like disco and smooth jazz and alternative rock, they come out of the music industry. Follow music trends and you will find new formats or format developments.

 

[itsTheRolyPoly]

Miami is a $200 million dollar radio market. WPB is a $30 million market. Even a mediocre station in Miami bills much more than those in the Palm Beaches.

In the Palm Beaches, only two station bill over $3 million. In Miami, there are 33 such stations. The highest two billers in the Palm Beaches do an average of $4 million. In Miami, there 19 stations doing $4 million or more. And 7 doing over $8 million.

As it is, 104.3, as an also-ran with a format that is totally inappropriate for Miami, bills more than all but two of the WPB stations do in that market.

Let me guess... one of them is WRMF? Top-rated station in the WPB market.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Let me guess... one of them is WRMF? Top-rated station in the WPB market.

Yep, and it bills almost 50% more than the #2 station.

 

[jbrasco951]

Yep, and it bills almost 50% more than the #2 station.

Guarantee you and I would not doubt that 90% of that building is thanks to one Kevin Rolston. If not for the KVJ show wrmf could not boast the ratings of the building they have now.

I worked in the same building with him and he is everything that makes that show tick. Once that show came on board I think that's when they actually changed their format to lean more top 40 than AC to tap in the audiences of various stations top 40 and AC of which there are two of each

 

[MarkW]

Does anyone here believe Audacy should give Hot AC a try at 104.3?

I personally have conflicting views regarding that notion.

 

[itsTheRolyPoly]

Yep, and it bills almost 50% more than the #2 station.

Not surprising. Its been #1 since forever. Not only that, they got the biggest morning show in the market which definitely helps them.

 

[chrocket87]

Does anyone here believe Audacy should give Hot AC a try at 104.3?

I personally have conflicting views regarding that notion.

Isn’t WFLC kinda doing that now? This looks like Hot AC, just more rhythmic-based, as the Miami market requires.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

Miami is a $200 million dollar radio market. WPB is a $30 million market. Even a mediocre station in Miami bills much more than those in the Palm Beaches.

In the Palm Beaches, only two station bill over $3 million. In Miami, there are 33 such stations. The highest two billers in the Palm Beaches do an average of $4 million. In Miami, there 19 stations doing $4 million or more. And 7 doing over $8 million.

As it is, 104.3, as an also-ran with a format that is totally inappropriate for Miami, bills more than all but two of the WPB stations do in that market.

Wasn't 104.3 and WRMF the two top billers in WPB at one time?

 

[DavidEduardo]

Wasn't 104.3 and WRMF the two top billers in WPB at one time?

I really don't remember. It is WEAT and WRMF now; what time period are you thinking of and I can dig out my old BIA books!

 

[Mike Sheridan]

I really don't remember. It is WEAT and WRMF now; what time period are you thinking of and I can dig out my old BIA books!

Back when WEAT was Sunny 104.3, WRMF 97.9 and WIRK 107.9. Those were the big fish as I remember. At one time 104.3 had a signal advantage since they were on a taller tower but that was a very long time ago. Still much like WLYF they held on to that advantage for years!

 

[MrGregc]

Sure David, let's say you're probably right on all accounts. That's the mindset when it comes to the narrowminded thinking of today's commercial radio companies that made me leave terrestrial radio for podcasting 16 years ago. As long as they can manipulate the small samples of actual listeners provided through Nielsen PPMs to siphon advertising dollars...but at the listener's expense and abandonment for streaming.

You could boast each local station's annual billing. They've been running a ridiculous amount of ads to make good on any advertiser's PPM expectations.

What do they care about? At the latest Hispanic Radio Conference, SBS COO Albert Rodriguez was quoted to have said "having too many commercials isn’t a bad thing." Univision Radio President Jesus Lara spoke of having “a couple of volume deals” with a couple of third-party players. Doesn't sound like the programming has any priority, nor does the listener base but hey look at all that billing.

Question is for how long? There will come a day that terrestrial radio will lose its battle for listeners for programming and cannot sustain targeting an aging demographic and a continued decline in billing and then what do you say to those cherished advertisers? I'd rather talk about long-term solutions then brag about being oversold.

Ignorance of the remaining audience (or any future adopters) will be the ultimate downfall of this medium until radio decides to actually tackle the digital disruption and learn how to program for the next generation of listeners and monetize them.

What's so wrong about thinking of up some new formats for a change and seek out some new listeners that know there is a radio on their car dashboard for a reason? Maybe they'll actually find something for them to check out on FM or AM that will be more than just tired programming and too many ads?

As always! Have the last word, David. I'm sure you'll say I don't know what I'm talking about like you tell everyone else.

My question is most major companies have gospel formats in other markets why not the miami market??

 

[DavidEduardo]

My question is most major companies have gospel formats in other markets why not the miami market??

There are two kinds of gospel formats. Southern Gospel is a "white" format and is concentrated in the deep south and the audience is old. Then there is the African American gospel, which also leans very old and is generally not very attractive to advertisers.

Miami's Black population is significantly composed of both Hispanic and Haitian groups, neither of which have any heritage that includes that kind of music.

Miami has few rural southerners of the white persuasion and likely not enough Blacks that are not Hispanic or Haitians and who grew up on Black gospel music.

 

[ShawtyBlack_ATL]

With the recent flip of WNSH in New York, and the rumors of more "The Block" format changes on the way, it wouldn't be very surprising to see WSFS flip before the years end.

It's been hovering around 1.4-1.5 share for the last few months making it the company's worst performing FM in the market, and I cannot imagine that demographically it performs very well.

Would a classic hip-hop format of the nature of WNSH/WXBK (targeting a Hispanic audience) perform well in Miami?

Doesn’t Classic Hip Hop already have 2 homes in Miami?

1. THROWBACK 105.5
2. VIBE 92.7

 

[itsTheRolyPoly]

Doesn’t Classic Hip Hop already have 2 homes in Miami?

1. THROWBACK 105.5
2. VIBE 92.7

I knew PJ's Throwback 105.5 existed but no clue that Vibe 92.7 did. Though I can get both signals easily, neither are heavily promoted anyways, just like EDM Party 93.1 HD2, which is neither promoted nor streamed online.

 

[AMRocks]

I'm kinda shocked that someone doesn't do talk on FM in Miami. I know, I know. WIOD gets really poor ratings, but there are SO many talk shows out there, both syndicated and local hosts available. And WIOD might be a "heritage" station, but they are very poor at doing what they do.

And remember, talk stations run WAY more commercials than music. So, even if the spot rate is low, they could...maybe...make more money. Start with all syndicated and then test the waters with a local host or two that could actually talk about South Florida and not national politics all the time.

Might be worth a try.

 

[jbrasco951]

There are two kinds of gospel formats. Southern Gospel is a "white" format and is concentrated in the deep south and the audience is old. Then there is the African American gospel, which also leans very old and is generally not very attractive to advertisers.

I can speak first hand to the genre in south Florida. WSWN 900AM in Belle Glade just dropped gospel again after JC Radio Group bought the station a few years back.

Remodeled the whole building outside the city limits and added a FM simulcast. They tried everything to bring advertisers back.

I got to work with JC Radio Group in 2019. They only had a live morning show hosted by the PD and they automated the bulk of their lineup. The format was AA Gospel and David is spot on the demographic.

Safe to say gospel will not be fruitful format in the South Florida market.

 

[Gregg.]

AM Rocks wrote: >>I'm kinda shocked that someone doesn't do talk on FM in Miami. Might be worth a try.<<

It wouldn't make much sense to do a conservative older-skewing Talk format on FM in Miami. There are only a few large market commercial talk stations on FM: WSB Atlanta, KIRO Seattle and KTAR Phoenix. But they were already well established on AM and are among those market's highest revenue stations.

However, Hot Talk is popular in three Florida cities: WHPT Tampa, WTKS Orlando and WZZR West Palm Beach (which carries a few of WTKS's programs). I'm not sure why the format works in those Florida markets but really can't be found elsewhere. Would it work in Miami? Would there be enough of a primarily English-speaking young adult male audience to make it successful? I'm not sure.

 

[ZantennaG1]

I'm not sure why the format works in those Florida markets but really can't be found elsewhere. Would it work in Miami?

Depends on the format of these "Hot Talk" stations. I'd like to think of the normal nationally syndicated stuff as "Icy Talk" because it's a one way deal and the hosts (Hannity, Beck, and the like) often say harsh things they believe to be true, whereas Hot Talk is something everybody can't stop talking about, which would make sense for Florida. 🤷‍♂️

 

[DavidEduardo]

However, Hot Talk is popular in three Florida cities: WHPT Tampa, WTKS Orlando and WZZR West Palm Beach (which carries a few of WTKS's programs). I'm not sure why the format works in those Florida markets but really can't be found elsewhere. Would it work in Miami? Would there be enough of a primarily English-speaking young adult male audience to make it successful? I'm not sure.

The second and third generation Hispanics in Miami are English speaking, but have distinct cultural values from non-Hispanic southerners... and most of Florida is just South Georgia.

Miami's metro is about 75% Hispanic and Black. There is not really enough left for an English language talk station, particularly judging by the decline over the last three decades of talk on AM. Even the seniors in the market don't spend a lot of time with talk.

 

[ZantennaG1]

and most of Florida is just South Georgia.

Miami's metro is about 75% Hispanic and Black.

That confirms just about every random survey of Floridians. "We don't claim Miami, just Miami Beach" (paraphrase from a comedy vid I watched) Yep, they are just a tad different