An AM Station with Transmitters in Different States

[cyberdad]

November 1963, right around the time of the JFK assassination. So no surprise a 1964 map would show them at the old site.

On this board, I sometimes have to stop myself from typing stuff like WCFL, WTIX, WMAQ, KXOK, WCAU, etc. And as some of you can probably attest....sometimes the past still creeps through in my posts!

 

[radioman148]

On this board, I sometimes have to stop myself from typing stuff like WCFL, WTIX, WMAQ, KXOK, WCAU, etc. And as some of you can probably attest....sometimes the past still creeps through in my posts!

You're not alone I still think of 670 as WMAQ and 1000 as WCFL. Old habits are hard to break.

 

[Ai4i]

November 1963, right around the time of the JFK assassination.
So no surprise a 1964 map would show them at the old site.

Just as the Minnow's three-hour tour was being extended to three years.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Just as the Minnow's three-hour tour was being extended to three years.

You do know that the S.S. Minnow was named by Sherwood Schwartz as a dig at FCC Chairman Newton Minow, who had declared television to be a "vast wasteland"?

Man does not live by WTTW, WBEZ, and WFMT alone. Every once and a while, we want to just be entertained and laugh.

 

[ftballfan]

1490 WOPI, licensed to Bristol, TN, transmits from just across the state line in Bristol, VA.
1210 WSBI, licensed to Static, TN, transmits from Kentucky.
990 KWAM, licensed to Memphis, TN, transmits from Arkansas.
640 WCRV, licensed to Collierville, TN, transmits from Mississippi (barely).
950 KFSA and 1650 KFSW, both licensed to Fort Smith, AR, transmit from Oklahoma.
1450 KQYX, licensed to Galena, KS, transmits from Missouri.
1420 KOBM, licensed to Omaha, NE, transmits from Iowa.
1020 KMMQ, licensed to Plattsmouth, NE, transmits from Iowa.
1180 KZOT, licensed to Bellevue, NE, transmits from Iowa.
620 KMNS and 1470 KWSL, both licensed to Sioux City, IA, transmit from Nebraska.
1250 KZOI, licensed to Dakota City, NE, transmits from Iowa.
1660 KWQB, licensed to West Fargo, ND, transmits from Minnesota.
740 KNFL and 970 WDAY, both licensed to Fargo, ND, transmit from Minnesota.
1440 KKXL, licensed to Grand Forks, ND, transmits from Minnesota.

 

[schmave]

I guess we could go on and on about "border blasters". For many years, CKLW Windsor, ON operated as a quasi Detroit station. It's five towers were/are near Harrow, Ontario, but it's now very strictly Canadian programmed. It used to have a huge audience in the US as a Top 40 giant, now it's almost none, but it has a huge Canadian audience with local Talk. There has for many years been talk of flipping formats between CKWW 580 and CKLW 800, but it has never happened.

Not exactly a border blaster, but with 13 kW directional WTOR 770 Youngstown, NY has a signal and format aimed at Toronto from across Lake Ontario. Of course it's Daytime only.

Heh. Never heard of this one. Betting it is highly directional.
As far as CKLW, as recently as the late 90s it was carrying some American-based programming. I remember hearing the old One on One Sports network on the weekends, and I think to this day it still carries Coast to Coast AM. They carried some overflow Tigers and Michigan broadcasts as late as the late 90s as well, IIRC. CKLW still comes in quite well in Toledo at night, but when I was up that way about a month ago they were gone by Findlay at night.
Back to this thread ... WWVA was one of the first I thought of. Glad it was mentioned.

 

[Ai4i]

What about all the NYC stations that come to you from the Jersey swamps.

Plus a few Nu Joyzee FMs on Conde Nast (4TS) and the Empire State Bldg.

 

[Hoosierky]

WCMI 1340 licensed to Ashland KY, transmits from across the river in Ohio.

What was WPAY-FM 104.1 had a monster signal with a COL of Portsmouth OH, but it’s stick in KY.

 

[gr8oldies]

Heh. Never heard of this one. Betting it is highly directional.
As far as CKLW, as recently as the late 90s it was carrying some American-based programming. I remember hearing the old One on One Sports network on the weekends, and I think to this day it still carries Coast to Coast AM. They carried some overflow Tigers and Michigan broadcasts as late as the late 90s as well, IIRC. CKLW still comes in quite well in Toledo at night, but when I was up that way about a month ago they were gone by Findlay at night.
Back to this thread ... WWVA was one of the first I thought of. Glad it was mentioned.

CKLW was carrying Clark Howard for awhile, and was a Dr. Joy Browne affiliate in the 90s and early 00s. As I've mentioned before, I lived in the area of West Central Ohio that was in the null toward XEROK, so we had a booming daytime signal but a pattern change that made for a much weaker signal and then Trans World Radio blasting in. Last time I was in Northern Ohio, I could barely get the night signal in Bucyrus, OH (but it was perfect in the Cedar Point parking lot).

 

[pianoplayer88key]

On this board, I sometimes have to stop myself from typing stuff like WCFL, WTIX, WMAQ, KXOK, WCAU, etc. And as some of you can probably attest....sometimes the past still creeps through in my posts!

You're not alone I still think of 670 as WMAQ and 1000 as WCFL. Old habits are hard to break.

I never heard WMAQ but I remember it being that call. WCFL... yeah that's now WMVP I guess, and it was when I started getting into radio. (I never logged either of those, only Chicagos I've logged, and only once, were WGN and WBBM, from near San Diego, CA.) And WCAU I don't remember the connection with a modern station but I feel like it's one I should know. (WTAM? or is that WWWE or something else...)

Or what about when a station has had a long-time call.... then changes to a callsign that had been on a "heritage" station a long time ago but hadn't been used for a while? (In this case the resurrected older call was before my time.)
760 KFMB San Diego - fairly recently changed to KGB ... which had long ago been used on 1360. (I remember that as KPOP with standards, it's now KLSD with sports.)
I could imagine, someone who's been around a lot longer than I have ... hearing a reference to "760 KGB" ... "Wait a minute... I thought 760 was KFMB? and KGB was on 1360?" (I'm also aware KFMB was on 540 but that was before my time as well.)

 

[gr8oldies]

I never heard WMAQ but I remember it being that call. WCFL... yeah that's now WMVP I guess, and it was when I started getting into radio. (I never logged either of those, only Chicagos I've logged, and only once, were WGN and WBBM, from near San Diego, CA.) And WCAU I don't remember the connection with a modern station but I feel like it's one I should know. (WTAM? or is that WWWE or something else...)

Or what about when a station has had a long-time call.... then changes to a callsign that had been on a "heritage" station a long time ago but hadn't been used for a while? (In this case the resurrected older call was before my time.)
760 KFMB San Diego - fairly recently changed to KGB ... which had long ago been used on 1360. (I remember that as KPOP with standards, it's now KLSD with sports.)
I could imagine, someone who's been around a lot longer than I have ... hearing a reference to "760 KGB" ... "Wait a minute... I thought 760 was KFMB? and KGB was on 1360?" (I'm also aware KFMB was on 540 but that was before my time as well.)

WTAM was 1100, Cleveland's call in the 1940s and 1950s. After KYW, WKYC, WWWE and maybe one I missed, for whatever reason Clear Channel resurrected the WTAM calls. I never understood that move.

 

[schmave]

CKLW was carrying Clark Howard for awhile, and was a Dr. Joy Browne affiliate in the 90s and early 00s. As I've mentioned before, I lived in the area of West Central Ohio that was in the null toward XEROK, so we had a booming daytime signal but a pattern change that made for a much weaker signal and then Trans World Radio blasting in. Last time I was in Northern Ohio, I could barely get the night signal in Bucyrus, OH (but it was perfect in the Cedar Point parking lot).

When my girlfriend and I went to Put in Bay in June 2012, the only AM station strong enough to be received on the clock radio was WJR. Definitely some interference in the hotel, but even so no CKLW, Toledo stations or WTAM. CKLW definitely is close enough to be heard, but PIB is right in that extremely noticeable southbound null that cuts between Toledo and Cleveland.
Where my in-laws live in the far northeast corner of Ohio, CKLW is every bit as strong as WJR both day and night, no doubt much of the chagrin of anyone from the CRTC.

 

[gr8oldies]

When my girlfriend and I went to Put in Bay in June 2012, the only AM station strong enough to be received on the clock radio was WJR. Definitely some interference in the hotel, but even so no CKLW, Toledo stations or WTAM. CKLW definitely is close enough to be heard, but PIB is right in that extremely noticeable southbound null that cuts between Toledo and Cleveland.
Where my in-laws live in the far northeast corner of Ohio, CKLW is every bit as strong as WJR both day and night, no doubt much of the chagrin of anyone from the CRTC.

Even the CRTC can't change the laws of physics. I used to visit Vermillion (just west of Lorain) frequently) and CKLW was good during the day and not quite as good at night, I'm sure it was blasting in there as the Big 8 back in the day.

 

[schmave]

True. My comment on the CRTC was more a mock of their efforts over the years to do everything they can to lessen CKLW's signal across the border, when anyone with a brain knows that some parts of the U.S. will get the signal and some will hear it quite well.
CKLW struggles at night on the SDR near Lorain and doesn't come in anywhere near as well there as during the day or further northeast along the lake, whereas not surprisingly WJR blasts in.

 

[cyberdad]

True. My comment on the CRTC was more a mock of their efforts over the years to do everything they can to lessen CKLW's signal across the border, when anyone with a brain knows that some parts of the U.S. will get the signal and some will hear it quite well.
CKLW struggles at night on the SDR near Lorain and doesn't come in anywhere near as well there as during the day or further northeast along the lake, whereas not surprisingly WJR blasts in.

I'm guessing that the CRTC also takes into consideration the 800s in Belleville ON, and Montreal (CJBQ and CJAD) when determining what CKLW is allowed to do with their night pattern. Both of those stations are in a straight line to the east northeast. CHAB in Regina, SK could also be in the mix, but I'm not sure about that.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

They still have to protect XEROK 800 Juarez, regardless of power, as if they are 150000 watts, within Mexico, under old skywave Treaty models. Stations on 800 generally operate in the US at 500 watts or less at Night. Before around 1980, there were no stations in the US operating at Night. There is one station, WVAL Sauk Rapids, MN, with 850 watts Night. Not sure how they even got that.

 

[fybush]

There are a bunch of Canadian allocations that all lined up neatly on 800 alongside CKLW over the years - at one point, there were tight north-south directional arrays running on 800 at night in Quebec City (CHRC), Montreal (CJAD), Belleville (CJBQ), Windsor and Thunder Bay (CBQ). Quebec City and Thunder Bay are gone now. Windsor got there first, and had the biggest signal, and then I think it was Montreal next, followed by Belleville and the others.

Here in Rochester, 800 was always a noisy mess at night - Belleville's southern lobe aims right at us, but not with quite enough oomph to overcome the backside of the CKLW signal, plus some PJB depending on what pattern they were using.

 

[cyberdad]

There are a bunch of Canadian allocations that all lined up neatly on 800 alongside CKLW over the years - at one point, there were tight north-south directional arrays running on 800 at night in Quebec City (CHRC), Montreal (CJAD), Belleville (CJBQ), Windsor and Thunder Bay (CBQ). Quebec City and Thunder Bay are gone now. Windsor got there first, and had the biggest signal, and then I think it was Montreal next, followed by Belleville and the others.

Here in Rochester, 800 was always a noisy mess at night - Belleville's southern lobe aims right at us, but not with quite enough oomph to overcome the backside of the CKLW signal, plus some PJB depending on what pattern they were using.

I was always painfully aware of that arrangement. with the 800s "all in a row". I say "painfully aware" because CJAD had the Expos baseball team before they moved out of town. More than a couple of times, I'd be heading out of town west towards Ottawa or Toronto, trying to hear the Expos vs the Cubs and lose the signal in an hour or so. Of course, I could always flip over to CKAC and listen in French! Which I actually did! Ironically, CKAC had/has a better signal in the English speaking areass than most of the English-speaking stattions.

The long-gone CFCF on 600, the other major English language station in Montreal, also threw most of it's highly-directional signal squarely into the French-speaking regions.

Finally, I've spent a few nights in Rochester during my travels. Usually at the Marriott south of town. I remember hearing CJBQ there....and being mildly surprised.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

It looks like WVAL may have been relicensed as a new station. It shares it's two towers now with three other stations, which I'm sure Scott is aware of. The only scenario I can think of is that previously, it had electrically taller towers, perhaps one or both of which was on the order of 500 feet, and it already radiated the equivalent with 850 watts with what it was previously 500 watts night. From a standpoint of where it is located, it is about the same distance from the Mexican border as CKLW, and from that standpoint, without the Treaty restrictions, it would be allowed much more power than 850 watts Night. There is no History Card under the WVAL call letters. Perhaps is hidden under a deleted callsign previously used on 800.

 

[gr8oldies]

There are 800s that play classic rock or classic hits that I can pick up on various SDRs, and hearing music on 800 makes me think of The Big 8's glory days.

The 800 in Huntington WV was at one-time top 40 WKEE, and around sunrise and sunset, it would come in along with CKLW where I lived. Drive south toward Huntington, sooner or later the littler 8 would replace The Big 8.