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The article did say the owner of WNKR agreed to continue the AAA format if it is financially viable. Sounds to me like it's a goner as well. Jeff Zeisman does a great job with WNKR in Dry Ridge. I wonder if He plans to move the classic country format to 105.9 or do a simulcast until a permanent format is decided upon?
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WorldFamous
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With Peter Z and Jim Labarbara at WNKR, I know what I'd try. But there are probably a thousand good reasons why it would never work.
Did NKU ever tear down the old WPFB building at the tower site in Middletown?
Did NKU ever tear down the old WPFB building at the tower site in Middletown?
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I like that Idea, but as you say it wouldn't be a revenue generator. I think they may try Classic Country like the have on 106.7. They could bring back The Rebel name. 105.9 has a decent signal in Northern KY so I don't know if they would want to marginalize 106.7 with the same format which also is heard in Cincinnati
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I hope they're wise enough to let "the Rebel" stay where it belongs. Forgotten in radio's past by almost anyone other than the radio geeks around here. The key is to ignore the Cinti and Dayton markets and focus instead on the people in between. But please don't pollute it with the small town antics that Paul and Doug Braden forced on that frequency through the years.
My question would be: Can you really carve an "in-between" market between Dayton and Cincinnati, with the 2 cities metro areas growing so close together? If you live in Middletown or WestChester and work in Cincinnati, how inclined would any one person be to listen to the Middletown-Butler County station as opposed to the Cincinnati station they are already listening to. All traces of the old operation are gone and forgotten, and the new owner is putting a brand new radio station on the air for all intents and purposes. It'll be interesting to see.
105.9 has always had a very strong signal in both Cincinnati and Dayton metros - better than some "in town" signals such as 97.3 in Cincinnati and 101.5 in Dayton. With the right format they could be a player in a growing, soon to be metroplex. For the past two decades the population is increasing significantly in northern Cincinnati and southern Dayton as witnessed by new commercial businesses all over the place (Liberty Towne Center for example) and Monroe.
Jeff Zeisman does a great job with WNKR in Dry Ridge.
Agree!
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WorldFamous
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How inclined would any one person be to listen to the Middletown-Butler County station as opposed to the Cincinnati station they are already listening to.
That's a great point. And in the early 1990s I'd have questioned how inclined would anyone in northern KY have been to tune away from Cincinnati to listen to WNKR? Yet apparently they have. Enough for Zeismann to afford 5M+ to buy Middletown.
Look, I wouldn't expect Springboro or Mason / West Chester to focus away from Dayton or Cinti. But family matters have meant I'm spending a lot more time around cities like Middletown and Lebanon lately. And I've been surprised to learn just how many people still align themselves with where they live and not the big towns north or south. Ask me a year ago and I'd have said the listeners and the money aren't there. I'm not so sure now.
We've talked before about Gary Todd and his old "Circle North" WXXP Anderson IN attempt to create something out of nothing. Anderson, Pendleton and Fishers and Castleton were never going to mesh. Gary spent big and lost his shirt with XXP. Somehow I suspect Ziesmann isn't foolish enough to use an FM stand-alone to create something that can serve two very distinct large markets.
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WorldFamous
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105.9 has always had a very strong signal in both Cincinnati and Dayton metros - better than some "in town" signals such as 97.3 in Cincinnati and 101.5 in Dayton. With the right format they could be a player in a growing, soon to be metroplex. For the past two decades the population is increasing significantly in northern Cincinnati and southern Dayton as witnessed by new commercial businesses all over the place (Liberty Towne Center for example) and Monroe.
I first worked for Paul Braden in 1974. I think I have a pretty good sense of what the 105.9 signal can and cannot do.
In 16 years living in Springboro, I've yet to meet someone who aligns themselves with Cincinnati. I doubt if you can find anyone in Mason / West Chester who consider themselves a part of Dayton. But as I wrote above, I'm learning that there's quite a few people in the cities in between that quite happily consider themselves nothing more than Middletown or Lebanon.
Here's my take on the economics of it. Jeff Zeismann is taking on over 5M in debt buying 105.9. There's a limit on how much extra he can afford to additionally spend to develop and promote a new and very stand-alone FM in Cincinnati or Dayton. To reach both means even more. And if he has money to burn, great. Let him do whatever he wants.
But if he needs to eventually pay down that debt, he needs to sell a whole lot of spots and sell them fast. "Metroplex" or not, Dayton isn't Cincinnati and Cincinnati isn't Dayton. No one in either market is going to want to buy time knowing that half the reach of that spot is in a market that has no interest in the other. No matter how good the deal, if I'm looking for a Ford in Cinti, I'm not driving to Beau Townsend north of Dayton. I probably wouldn't consider that drive even if I'm in Middletown.
So, as I see it, you'll never make the money you need trying to be a Cincinnati AND Dayton radio station. And great signal or now, sitting where it is means there is very much a limit on how much 105.9 can ever expect to make should they choose to target one or the other.
So, you go with what you know. You let the corporate guys fight for the dollars in Dayton and Cincinnati and instead focus on the persons in between. Like you've ignored Cinti for the most part, and instead targeted the good people of northern KY. If you're a car dealer like Bob Pulte or Bill DeLord, a lower rate on a radio station hyper-targeting the people of Lebanon or Middletown makes better sense than a much higher rate with less possible return on iHeart Cincinnati or Cox Dayton.
Please, tell me where I'm wrong. Acknowledging that I might well be.
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I hope they're wise enough to let "the Rebel" stay where it belongs. Forgotten in radio's past by almost anyone other than the radio geeks around here. The key is to ignore the Cinti and Dayton markets and focus instead on the people in between. But please don't pollute it with the small town antics that Paul and Doug Braden forced on that frequency through the years.
Now that I think about it The Rebel is politically incorrect now so I doubt they would want a name tied to the confederate flag. 106.7 WNKR has no moniker at all they really don't need one.
I don't believe you are wrong. I'm assuming the new owner has done his homework on what problems and opportunities are there. $5 million is a lot of money, and his track record has given someone the confidence to loan him that money for a somewhat risky proposition.
The pros: Middletown/Butler County does not have it's own radio station that's not a move-in to either Dayton or Cincinnati (ecepting WMOH). The Bradens tried to target Dayton but eventually backed away. If the audience and revenue is there, or can be developed, that can literally have all of it. When I worked at Kool 95, based in Piqua, though we had legitimate ratings in Dayton, almost all of the revenue was generated north of I-70. I never saw a breakout of Miami, Shelby, and Darke Counties, but it wouldn't have shocked me if I found out we were #1 or 2 overall. Cox walked away from a ton of revenue when they bought the place; pricing those Miami and Shelby county businesses off the station. WMVR got quite a windfall because they ultimately had the local market to themselves.
Unlike Gary Todd's ill-fated "Circle North" concept as you mentioned, or a suburban Chicago (Aurora) station that tried to hyper-focus on the buburbs, there's at least a history of Middletown having a radio station and media market.
The cons: So many years have gone by and so much has changed. Butler County hasn't had "local radio" for over 6 years now. The Dry Ridge station has been around since 1992; this faciity will be starting from scratch. The advertisers have set budgets, the listeners have habits, and it's going to take some major time to develop a saleable audience. If 105.9 can do that (which still may not be a given), are there enough realistic advertsisng prospects that are focusing on the Butler County area and aren't just one location of a national or regional chain. The Middletown Cracker Barrel may not be the easist to break away and do a separate buy. Facebook and Google (to name two) are formidable competitors for local advertising; Facebook wasn't as nearly well developed as a local advertising platform in 2011, when WPFB sold.
My take is, there may be a huge opportunity but there is a lot to overcome. I'd be a lot more optimistic if it were 1997 instead of 2017, however.
Please, tell me where I'm wrong. Acknowledging that I might well be.[/QUOTE]
The pros: Middletown/Butler County does not have it's own radio station that's not a move-in to either Dayton or Cincinnati (ecepting WMOH). The Bradens tried to target Dayton but eventually backed away. If the audience and revenue is there, or can be developed, that can literally have all of it. When I worked at Kool 95, based in Piqua, though we had legitimate ratings in Dayton, almost all of the revenue was generated north of I-70. I never saw a breakout of Miami, Shelby, and Darke Counties, but it wouldn't have shocked me if I found out we were #1 or 2 overall. Cox walked away from a ton of revenue when they bought the place; pricing those Miami and Shelby county businesses off the station. WMVR got quite a windfall because they ultimately had the local market to themselves.
Unlike Gary Todd's ill-fated "Circle North" concept as you mentioned, or a suburban Chicago (Aurora) station that tried to hyper-focus on the buburbs, there's at least a history of Middletown having a radio station and media market.
The cons: So many years have gone by and so much has changed. Butler County hasn't had "local radio" for over 6 years now. The Dry Ridge station has been around since 1992; this faciity will be starting from scratch. The advertisers have set budgets, the listeners have habits, and it's going to take some major time to develop a saleable audience. If 105.9 can do that (which still may not be a given), are there enough realistic advertsisng prospects that are focusing on the Butler County area and aren't just one location of a national or regional chain. The Middletown Cracker Barrel may not be the easist to break away and do a separate buy. Facebook and Google (to name two) are formidable competitors for local advertising; Facebook wasn't as nearly well developed as a local advertising platform in 2011, when WPFB sold.
My take is, there may be a huge opportunity but there is a lot to overcome. I'd be a lot more optimistic if it were 1997 instead of 2017, however.
Please, tell me where I'm wrong. Acknowledging that I might well be.[/QUOTE]
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The stories seemed endless about the number of corporate players who all but offered Doug Braden a blank check for 105.9 -- all with the vision of building that "metroplex" super-station some have talked about in this thread. Granted, instinct suggests Doug would have starved before he'd have sold to one of them. But Doug is gone and NKU seriously needed money. And in the end, it wasn't corporate radio that ended up with 105.9. It was a well run, prosperous, but one station only Class A FM local broadcaster from Grant County, Kentucky.
Now if all that great potential is there, shouldn't we think that one of those corporate broadcasters would have offered up more than Grant County's 5.3 mil to turn that untapped potential into reality? Truth is, they didn't. Or at least didn't see enough return or any return from an offer of more than 5.3 mil. Which makes me think that the ones who should know realize that this "metroplex" super-station we're dreaming about, in reality, isn't possible. Beyond that, it suggests at least to me that all those stories of big offers to Doug Braden for 105.9 may have never been true.
So in the end, doesn't that mean that 105.9, at best, can be little more than a well run but Butler and Warren County focused broadcast operation and not the Cinti / Dayton player that we dreamers would like it to be?
Now if all that great potential is there, shouldn't we think that one of those corporate broadcasters would have offered up more than Grant County's 5.3 mil to turn that untapped potential into reality? Truth is, they didn't. Or at least didn't see enough return or any return from an offer of more than 5.3 mil. Which makes me think that the ones who should know realize that this "metroplex" super-station we're dreaming about, in reality, isn't possible. Beyond that, it suggests at least to me that all those stories of big offers to Doug Braden for 105.9 may have never been true.
So in the end, doesn't that mean that 105.9, at best, can be little more than a well run but Butler and Warren County focused broadcast operation and not the Cinti / Dayton player that we dreamers would like it to be?
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Even with the occasional talk of Dayton and Cincinnati becoming one MSA, Dayton is very much Dayton and Cincinnati is very much Cincinnati. Culturally, they are separate places. Certainly there are some economic ties but there's virtually no way it all becomes one media market. Dayton's radio and TV stations don't get into Cincinnati and vice versa. I don't see WHIO or WKRC giving up their CBS affiliation, for example. Dayton Cincy superstation? Doubtful. What remains is how much of a market can be carved out of Butler/Warren for 105.9, or is it too late?
I'd also venture that if a corporate buyer would have bought Braden out, it would have been a move-in into one of the 2 markets (see the Hamilton and Lebanon licensed stations).
I'd also venture that if a corporate buyer would have bought Braden out, it would have been a move-in into one of the 2 markets (see the Hamilton and Lebanon licensed stations).
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I'd also venture that if a corporate buyer would have bought Braden out, it would have been a move-in into one of the 2 markets (see the Hamilton and Lebanon licensed stations).
I could see Zeisman wanting to move 105.9 closer to Cincinnati as there would be a bigger potential to generate more revenue than just serving Warren and Butler Counties. If all else fails He could then sell it to another broadcaster and recoup most if not all what he paid for it in a few years.
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