1 World Trade Center FM

Have any FM stations started transmitting from 1 WTC? Most likely WPAT and WNYC will move back there (does anyone have timeframes)? Perhaps WNYC will be able to bring WQXR to 1 WTC with the hope of a slight increase of coverage into Eastern Nassau County.

The best way for WQXR to increase their coverage in eastern Nassau county would be to pay WBLI to turn off their HD

WBLI's signal does not do very well in Eastern Nassau. They must also restrict their power so as to protect WQXR. So in that area (where I live), neither signal does very well. WQXR's power is limited to 610 watts to protect WBLI.

I was hoping that the increased height of 1WTC would give WQXR a few more miles of coverage.

We still do not know if any FM stations have moved to 1WTC or will be doing so in the near future.

The cost of such a location would be a factor for a non-commercial station such as WQXR. I've read reports that the rent on WTC is $1 million. That's a lot of tote bags and memberships. Unless there's a special rate for non-coms, I'd suggest it's a major consideration.

I figured they would move with WNYC as they will likely go back as they are not at full power at ESB. It would probably be cheaper to have both stations use 1WTC rather than pay for both sites.

djl said:

I figured they would move with WNYC as they will likely go back as they are not at full power at ESB. It would probably be cheaper to have both stations use 1WTC rather than pay for both sites.

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Not sure there's a discount for having two stations at WTC. Also not sure that WNYC intends to go to WTC. Once again, it's a huge expense that even network O&Os stations are balking at.

At one time, WNYC was owned by the city, and they may have negotiated a special rate for the old WTC. WNYC is no longer owned by the city.

Another non-com that formerly broadcast from the old WTC was WKCR. After 9-11, they moved to the Times Square tower were WBGO also operates.

TheBigA said:

The cost of such a location would be a factor for a non-commercial station such as WQXR. I've read reports that the rent on WTC is $1 million. That's a lot of tote bags and memberships. Unless there's a special rate for non-coms, I'd suggest it's a major consideration.

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When I last checked ESB was $47K/mo. 4TS was approx 1/3 of that. What no one here has mentioned but is a concern for the Eng. community are the growing number of 'super tall" structures going up due to a rezoning of the area just south of Central Park (59th st).

I'm on Madison Ave and can see the ESB -yet OTA has already been noticeably affected by these 80+ story buildings.

Clearly, these buildings are going to affect the viability of both ESB and 4TS. WTC will be more desirable for points west of the city.

https://ny.curbed.com/maps/new-york-skyscraper-construction-supertalls

LCG

Other than WPAT-FM and WNYC-FM, pretty much everyone would need to deal with short-spacing issues that would be caused by moving to WTC from Empire.

WQXR is more or less hemmed in where it is, and WBLI is already directional.

I read elsewhere that the NYC FMs just spent a bunch of money to improve the ESB facility, so my guess is that they're there to stay for the foreseeable future.

Isn’t WKTU also at lower power. They had to strike a deal (WTFM did it) at 1WTC. They moved down there to get a better signal out over Long Island.

djl said:

Isn’t WKTU also at lower power. They had to strike a deal (WTFM did it) at 1WTC. They moved down there to get a better signal out over Long Island.

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I don't know about that. They were originally licensed to Lake Success in Nassau County. They already had a good signal in Long Island.

They were actually originally on 2 WTC directional to Long Island and then moved to the master antenna at 1WTC.

DavidEduardo said:

Actually, they were on WTC Tower 2, but directional to reduce radiation to the southwest.

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Due to WPRB in Princeton.

djl said:

WBLI's signal does not do very well in Eastern Nassau. They must also restrict their power so as to protect WQXR. So in that area (where I live), neither signal does very well. WQXR's power is limited to 610 watts to protect WBLI.

I was hoping that the increased height of 1WTC would give WQXR a few more miles of coverage.

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Assuming the FCC were to authorize a move to 1 WTC, an increase in height would require a decrease in ERP. With insufficient building penetration already, the aforementioned move would probably aggravate the problem.

Kemosabe said:

Assuming the FCC were to authorize a move to 1 WTC, an increase in height would require a decrease in ERP. With insufficient building penetration already, the aforementioned move would probably aggravate the problem.

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Plus the current WQXR frequency is actually licensed to Newark NJ, so it's very unlikely that the FCC will authorize any change that will affect WBLI.

Any possibility of WNSH being able to at this point move as a Full Class B from 1 WTC. I don’t know how WWSK Smithtown could be considered short spaced to them.

djl said:

Any possibility of WNSH being able to at this point move as a Full Class B from 1 WTC.

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Nope.

djl said:

Any possibility of WNSH being able to at this point move as a Full Class B from 1 WTC. I don’t know how WWSK Smithtown could be considered short spaced to them.

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Because WWSK is 62 km away from 1WTC and second-adjacent full-spacing from an A to a second-adjacent B is 69 km, is how. Under the short-spacing provisions of 73.215, it's possible to show the existence of a fully-spaced allocation site and then operate WWSK short-spaced from its current site - but there are then spacing issues between WWSK's proposed allotment coordinates, co-channel WYBC-FM in Connecticut and an as-yet-vacant 94.5 allocation on the East End.

The other ongoing issue is the severe short to WMAS-FM Enfield CT, which is 195 km away from 1 WTC and needs 241 km for full B-to-B co-channel spacing (and even 211 km for B1-to-B full spacing.) WMAS-FM is also owned by Cumulus, so any realistic solution to WNSH's spacing issues in New York would have to involve a downgrade of WMAS-FM. And THAT brings in even more complications - WMAS-FM changed COL from Springfield MA to Enfield CT some years back (it was part of a deal with Clear Channel that was a trade for use of a generator in another market - really!), and so a downgraded WMAS-FM would still have to be able to provide COL coverage of Enfield, which might be challenging from its transmitter site in downtown Springfield.

Until just very recently, there was also the matter of the contractual provision in the sale of WNSH that obliged Cumulus to pay additional money to Family Stations if it moved 94.7 to Manhattan within a certain number of years, but that provision quietly expired last month.

So, "nope" is an overly simplistic answer. It's possible, but complicated.

fybush said:

Until just very recently, there was also the matter of the contractual provision in the sale of WNSH that obliged Cumulus to pay additional money to Family Stations if it moved 94.7 to Manhattan within a certain number of years, but that provision quietly expired last month.

So, "nope" is an overly simplistic answer. It's possible, but complicated.

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Didn't know it expired last month. Interesting. I knew Cumulus got the license at a reduced rate because of the limitations.

Having said that, I'm not sure Cumulus feels the revenue upside for moving the tower is worth it right now.