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Is HD Radio in full coverage now?

One thing that some radio engineers and programmers don't consider, is modern car tuners have built in AGC (Audio Gain Control) algorithms built right into the tuner (aka, compression and limiting). Heavy audio processing or excessive modulation for loudness gains nothing more than distortion at both the transmit and receive end. It may sound booming and huge coming out of the station modulation monitor or component tuner, but to the listener? Sounds like trash, as compared with that same song played via their IPhone.

Want to drive listeners away from radio even more? Process like radio did back in the 70's.
 
Just in general, it is harder to amplify a wider bandwidth. Not only do you have to amplify the energy across a broader frequency spectrum, but you will amplify any noise source within that specturm. So adding yet another 24k to the bandwidth of an HD station will make reception more difficult. Physics - not just my opinion.
 
Then to your theory Bruce, DTV shouldn't work at all, considering a single channel is 6Mhz wide and RMS 8VSB modulated across that entire 6Mhz . If an amplifier has the bandwidth capability, there is no 'level of difficulty'. That, and I have no idea what your comment has to do with FM modulating a carrier beyond 110kHz, but I'm confident a cockamamie theory that you won't back up, is forthcoming.
 
Then to your theory Bruce, DTV shouldn't work at all, considering a single channel is 6Mhz wide and RMS 8VSB modulated across that entire 6Mhz . If an amplifier has the bandwidth capability, there is no 'level of difficulty'. That, and I have no idea what your comment has to do with FM modulating a carrier beyond 110kHz, but I'm confident a cockamamie theory that you won't back up, is forthcoming.

Here is a beginners tutorial on gain / bandwidth product. It is a bit heavy on op amps, but is still generally applicable to all amplifier stages. The noise section is further down:

http://www.jensign.com/noise/cumulative.html

Let me know if you have any further questions - I am here to help!
 
What does an audio Operational Amplifier performance characteristics have to do with modulating or receiving an RF carrier? Trying to cover your incorrect or unsubstantiated claims, with unrelated B.S.
 
What does an audio Operational Amplifier performance characteristics have to do with modulating or receiving an RF carrier? Trying to cover your incorrect or unsubstantiated claims, with unrelated B.S.

When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Bruce was co-author of a Texas Instruments book on op amps some years ago. He is applying his "tool" to RF.
 


When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Bruce was co-author of a Texas Instruments book on op amps some years ago. He is applying his "tool" to RF.

One of my chapters in later additions was devoted to how to apply RF parameters to op amps - because the two arenas use such different specifications and parameters. Op amps have a lot of advantages for RF, the chief of which is stability.

In the case of the reference I provided, the first portions are op amp centric, but the noise portion applies to any amplifier - whether or not it is implemented with an op amp. The range of narrowband FM - like weather radios - is amazing. No way a commercial FM could have that sort of range with the power weather stations use. But it works quite well because it is narrowband. Widen the bandwidth, FM range isn't as good. This sort of thing is radio 101 - I am surprised anybody that knows radio engineering would challenge the concept of wider bandwidth transmission having lower range.
 
Widen the bandwidth, FM range isn't as good. This sort of thing is radio 101 - I am surprised anybody that knows radio engineering would challenge the concept of wider bandwidth transmission having lower range.

Field strength is field strength, no matter the modulated occupied bandwidth or frequency. The difference in receiving a signal at any distance is because of atmospheric and reflective propagation for a particular frequency range. It has nothing to do with deviation or occupied bandwidth, let alone at audio frequencies.

I realize this is yet again the same old tired (and wrong) argument you keep bringing up Bruce, insisting that stations broadcasting HD-FM are somehow degrading their field strength by occupying more bandwidth. Not only is that premise completely incorrect, but as several of us here have tried to explain, most HD carriers are transmitted through a second transmitter and in some cases, a separate antenna than the analog station. For those stations that are using a single final amplifier, the amplifier is broad-banded to maintain the correct licensed TPO for analog and digital carriers.

Again, how do you explain a DTV station that occupies a 6Mhz with constant digital modulation? It's going through a broadband RF amplifier?
 
Field strength is field strength, no matter the modulated occupied bandwidth or frequency. The difference in receiving a signal at any distance is because of atmospheric and reflective propagation for a particular frequency range. It has nothing to do with deviation or occupied bandwidth, let alone at audio frequencies.

I realize this is yet again the same old tired (and wrong) argument you keep bringing up Bruce, insisting that stations broadcasting HD-FM are somehow degrading their field strength by occupying more bandwidth. Not only is that premise completely incorrect, but as several of us here have tried to explain, most HD carriers are transmitted through a second transmitter and in some cases, a separate antenna than the analog station. For those stations that are using a single final amplifier, the amplifier is broad-banded to maintain the correct licensed TPO for analog and digital carriers.

Again, how do you explain a DTV station that occupies a 6Mhz with constant digital modulation? It's going through a broadband RF amplifier?

Let me address the DTV question first. In the analog days, there was a whole line of op amps that were optimized for flat differential gain and flat differential phase out to 6 MHz. The Base part number was THS4222. It is still active, but most of the references to video applications have been removed. I also notice that although the dual part is still made, the triple channel part - the THS4227 - is not. You would ideally want a triple channel part if you wanted a separate amplifier for R, G, and B. If you look in the spec table for the THS4222, it still mentions differential gain and phase for NTSC and PAL - although the part is now marketed as a telecomm grade A/D converter with excellent HD2 and HD3 response. No - that has nothing to do with HD radio! It is second and third harmonic distortion - but I couldn't resist putting the spec in here because the nomenclature is identical to HD radio!

DTV is probably fairly immune to differential gain and phase distortion - although the THS 4222 would still be an excellent choice to drive digital TV signals. The run of the mill op amp is optimized for 600 Ohm, but the THS4222 is optimized for 150 Ohm loads (75 Ohm load and 75 Ohm series matching resistor, because the output impedance of an op amp is low). I notice they also show the THS4222 as a differential line driver - I believe it would be excellent for 600 Ohm drive in studios, because of the hefty output stage.

Enough of the video stuff, interesting, but not radio related.

I agree that field strength is field strength, but I made the mistake when I was doing drive tests 35 years ago of using a spectrum analyzer. It had several bandwidths, but fixed gain. The fixed gain part is where I made my mistake. A consumer receiver is non-linear - it has AGC. So there is no difference to the consumer if the radio is getting 10 dBf or 100,000 dBf. Except maybe static on the low end. There are several things going on with HD radio. I am tending towards YOUR viewpoint on the antenna, and now think Houston's FM coverage problems are related to a poor choice of antenna bay and not necessarily the sidebands. And - thank you for being so hard nosed about it. The dangers of jumping to conclusions! HD on - 60 miles less range than HD off. Must be HD, right? No - not if they also changed the type of bay and the bays they are using for HD suck. That would explain why KBPA is such a blowtorch over Houston from 150 miles away, and they are running HD. They are doing something really different, and RIGHT - as opposed to something Houston is doing WRONG. Someone told me Houston stations switched the brand of bay when they started broadcasting HD. And if KGLK had the old bays active when they weren't using HD, and the new bays active when they were - there is a plausible explanation for the 60 mile difference! I don't think they care about Centerville, Madisonville, and Huntsville - but they darn sure care about building penetration, and if they lose 60 miles of range, something dramatic is probably happening over Houston where it DOES matter. I'm not the engineer. But if they seen this post, attention needs to be paid to the signal! You and I might disagree about whether or not it is HD or bays, but the range difference was observable, and repeatable. That is empirical observation - which needs an explanation as to the cause.
 
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