Could it happen to KXKL

ugh

Still doesn't matter. What works in Oklahoma City or Baltimore or wherever--
what Kool 105 plays is obviously satisfying a lot of Denver radio listeners.
They're ALWAYS in the Top 10 (out of dozens and dozens of signals) and are ranked consistently higher than about 75% of Oldies stations in the country.

We could debate what EVERY radio station in the country plays, should and shouldn't play- it's a cute game 'cause it lets you gripe about what you have. Did it ever occour to you that people in Cheyenne or OKC might come to Denver and think Kool 105 is a GREAT oldies station? (and before you just fire off a "heck no" think for just a second, NOT like a radio person. Their jocks are better, their promotions are better-- there's a lot of the right stuff going on at Kool 105).


> >
> > I don't know. But oldiescat missed my point on this one.
> The size of an oldies station's market is neither here nor
> there as far as I'm concerned. It's what they play (and how
> often they play it, for better or worse) is what I was
> getting at.
>
>
> > > >
> > > > If any oldies listener living in the Denver area took
> > the
> > > > time to listen to an oldies station from out of state,
>
> > > like
> > > > KRRR in Wyoming or KOMA 92.5 FM in OKC, they would
> know
> > > what
> > > > they're missing! When the sun went down in my area I
> > could
> > >
> > > > get KOMA 1520 AM, and I would listen to KOMA at night.
> I
> >
> > > > liked KOMA 1520 AM. It had a wide variety of music and
>
> > > great
> > > > DJ's. KOOL 105 had nothing on KOMA AM, believe me! You
>
> > > want
> > > > to talk about a "heritage station"?? KOMA was in a
> class
> >
> > > by
> > > > itself. Sadly, KOMA AM switched over to an all-news
> > format
> > > a
> > > > few years back and now I don't have another oldies
> > station
> > >
> > > > to listen to my area when the sun goes down! (Oh,
> well!)
> >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, just because a station is what it is, and
> many
> >
> > > > > people
> > > > > > have issues with it (or other stations in their
> > > > listening
> > > > > > area), that doesn't mean that that's the way it
> has
> > to
> > >
> > > > be!
> > > > >
> > > > > > Your last post makes it seem that way! It's not
> that
> >
> > > > way!
> > > > > > Change is good! And if the music at a particular
> > > station
> > > >
> > > > > > doesn't change (for the better), then perhaps the
> > > > > management
> > > > > > at that station needs to be changed!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe me and my friend strapshoe need to lead a
> > > crusade
> > > > in
> > > > >
> > > > > > the Denver listening area! Start a "listener
> > > revolution"
> > > >
> > > > > of
> > > > > > some kind!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As I said, oldiescat, when you're the only
> horse
> >
> > > in
> > > > > > town,
> > > > > > > > you can serve up whatever you want...and your
> > > > > customers
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > no choice but to take from you, or simply go
> > > > > > without.--And
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > that's true in any line of business.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you're an oldies fan, and you live in the
> > > > > > > Denver-Boulder
> > > > > > > > area, KOOL 105 (such that it is) is better
> than
> > > > > nothing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > So
> > > > > > > > their numbers are, in fact, somewhat
> misleading!
> > I
> > >
> > > > > > listen
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > KOOL 105 from time to time, but I do have
> > "issues"
> > >
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > station. That station annoys me! If I could,
> I'd
> >
> > > > > listen
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > another oldies station (with more variety)!!
> I'm
> >
> > > an
> > > > > > oldies
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > fan, so I'm stuck listening to KOOL 105!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

numbers

I get that you guys are in denial. You obviously aren't responsible for the operation of a competitive radio station in a Top 30 market to say something as incredibly naive as "numbers don't always mean anything". Wow.

(and I never did get an answer to the question below, "what successful radio stations have you ever programmed?". I ask because your answer will say a lot about your perspective).


> >
> "Numbers don't always mean anything.".........Amen to that,
> brother! (And in more ways than one!) Are you listening,
> oldiescat??!! Radiolover gets it. My friend Strapshoe gets
> it. I get it. Do you get it, oldiescat?!
>
>
> > > BTW= what successful radio stations have you ever
> > > programmed?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I agree with your take on Kool 105. I've always felt
> > that
> > > > KOOL's playlist has been woefully short on variety.
> And
> > > yes,
> > > > KRRR (and even KOMA in OKC) has waaaay more variety.
> You
> >
> > > > know, when a station like KRRR plays the "The Theme
> From
> >
> > > The
> > > > Excorcist", or when KOMA plays the late Richard
> Harris'
> > > > version of "MacArthur Park" (All seven minutes of
> > > > it!!)----now that's what I call variety!!! And
> although
> > > some
> > > > people may gasp to themselves and/or laugh out-loud
> and
> > > say
> > > > that "MacArthur Park" is one of the worst songs ever
> > > > recorded, that, to me, is not the point! The point is:
>
> > > > VARIETY!!! And let's face it, you'll never hear songs
> > like
> > >
> > > > that on KOOL 105!! And for those KOOL fans who say
> that
> > > > KOOL's numbers are consistently good and that
> obviously
> > > > someone is listening to KOOL 105 on a daily basis, I
> say
> >
> > > > this......Numbers can be misleading sometimes. As far
> as
> >
> > > > oldies go, KOOL is the only horse in town. And as
> such,
> > if
> > >
> > > > you're an oldies person, you're gonna listen to KOOL
> 105
> >
> > > > because there isn't anywhere else to turn to!! What I
> > > can't
> > > > stand about KOOL is they play a Beatles tune every 30
> > > > minutes or so. And to make matters worse, it's usually
>
> > the
> > >
> > > > same half-dozen or so Beatles songs!!! Now I realize
> > that
> > > > the Beatles are the biggest thing to ever happen to
> > music
> > > as
> > > > we know it, but come on!! Must they play a Beatles
> tune
> > > > every 30 minutes or so?????!!!!! I mean, GEEZ! Give me
> a
> >
> > > > break!! And like I said, they play the same 6 or 7
> > Beatles
> > >
> > > > tunes!! Now I ask you, how many Top 40 hits did the
> > > Beatles
> > > > have, anyway??!! About 30???!!! (Give or take.) Once
> > > > again...GEEZ!!! I'm sick of hearing "Love Me Do" and
> > "She
> > > > Loves You" and "Hard Day's Night" over and over and
> over
> >
> > > and
> > > > over and over and over and over and over and over and
> > over
> > >
> > > > and over and over and over again!!!!! Aren't you??!!!
> > > >
> > > > KOOL 105 is a joke! I'm so disgusted with that
> station!
> > > It's
> > > > not the way I would operate an oldies station!! Which
> > > leads
> > > > me to my $64 question for you, strapshoe......Where do
>
> > you
> > >
> > > > work? Is your station hiring right now? It sounds to
> me
> > > like
> > > > you and I are on the same page, brother! I like that!
> > > Great
> > > > minds think alike! Anyway, if you ever find yourself
> at
> > a
> > > > station that wants to go oldies, and you're in charge
> of
> >
> > > > making it happen, give me a shout! I'll work for
> > > you!---Any
> > > > day!
> > >
> >
>

Re: numbers

> I get that you guys are in denial. You obviously aren't
> responsible for the operation of a competitive radio station
> in a Top 30 market to say something as incredibly naive as
> "numbers don't always mean anything". Wow.
>
> (and I never did get an answer to the question below, "what
> successful radio stations have you ever programmed?". I ask
> because your answer will say a lot about your perspective).

yeah, but CBS FM was doing well. Top 10 all the time. They still flipped. How come they couldn't just flip Mix or K Rock. Two stations doing way worst and in a much deeper abyss than CBS.

> > >
> > "Numbers don't always mean anything.".........Amen to
> that,
> > brother! (And in more ways than one!) Are you listening,
> > oldiescat??!! Radiolover gets it. My friend Strapshoe gets
>
> > it. I get it. Do you get it, oldiescat?!
> >
> >
> > > > BTW= what successful radio stations have you ever
> > > > programmed?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with your take on Kool 105. I've always felt
>
> > > that
> > > > > KOOL's playlist has been woefully short on variety.
> > And
> > > > yes,
> > > > > KRRR (and even KOMA in OKC) has waaaay more variety.
>
> > You
> > >
> > > > > know, when a station like KRRR plays the "The Theme
> > From
> > >
> > > > The
> > > > > Excorcist", or when KOMA plays the late Richard
> > Harris'
> > > > > version of "MacArthur Park" (All seven minutes of
> > > > > it!!)----now that's what I call variety!!! And
> > although
> > > > some
> > > > > people may gasp to themselves and/or laugh out-loud
> > and
> > > > say
> > > > > that "MacArthur Park" is one of the worst songs ever
>
> > > > > recorded, that, to me, is not the point! The point
> is:
> >
> > > > > VARIETY!!! And let's face it, you'll never hear
> songs
> > > like
> > > >
> > > > > that on KOOL 105!! And for those KOOL fans who say
> > that
> > > > > KOOL's numbers are consistently good and that
> > obviously
> > > > > someone is listening to KOOL 105 on a daily basis, I
>
> > say
> > >
> > > > > this......Numbers can be misleading sometimes. As
> far
> > as
> > >
> > > > > oldies go, KOOL is the only horse in town. And as
> > such,
> > > if
> > > >
> > > > > you're an oldies person, you're gonna listen to KOOL
>
> > 105
> > >
> > > > > because there isn't anywhere else to turn to!! What
> I
> > > > can't
> > > > > stand about KOOL is they play a Beatles tune every
> 30
> > > > > minutes or so. And to make matters worse, it's
> usually
> >
> > > the
> > > >
> > > > > same half-dozen or so Beatles songs!!! Now I realize
>
> > > that
> > > > > the Beatles are the biggest thing to ever happen to
> > > music
> > > > as
> > > > > we know it, but come on!! Must they play a Beatles
> > tune
> > > > > every 30 minutes or so?????!!!!! I mean, GEEZ! Give
> me
> > a
> > >
> > > > > break!! And like I said, they play the same 6 or 7
> > > Beatles
> > > >
> > > > > tunes!! Now I ask you, how many Top 40 hits did the
> > > > Beatles
> > > > > have, anyway??!! About 30???!!! (Give or take.) Once
>
> > > > > again...GEEZ!!! I'm sick of hearing "Love Me Do" and
>
> > > "She
> > > > > Loves You" and "Hard Day's Night" over and over and
> > over
> > >
> > > > and
> > > > > over and over and over and over and over and over
> and
> > > over
> > > >
> > > > > and over and over and over again!!!!! Aren't
> you??!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > KOOL 105 is a joke! I'm so disgusted with that
> > station!
> > > > It's
> > > > > not the way I would operate an oldies station!!
> Which
> > > > leads
> > > > > me to my $64 question for you, strapshoe......Where
> do
> >
> > > you
> > > >
> > > > > work? Is your station hiring right now? It sounds to
>
> > me
> > > > like
> > > > > you and I are on the same page, brother! I like
> that!
> > > > Great
> > > > > minds think alike! Anyway, if you ever find yourself
>
> > at
> > > a
> > > > > station that wants to go oldies, and you're in
> charge
> > of
> > >
> > > > > making it happen, give me a shout! I'll work for
> > > > you!---Any
> > > > > day!
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin</P>

Re: ugh

> Still doesn't matter. What works in Oklahoma City or
> Baltimore or wherever--
> what Kool 105 plays is obviously satisfying a lot of Denver
> radio listeners.
> They're ALWAYS in the Top 10 (out of dozens and dozens of
> signals) and are ranked consistently higher than about 75%
> of Oldies stations in the country.
>
> We could debate what EVERY radio station in the country
> plays, should and shouldn't play- it's a cute game 'cause it
> lets you gripe about what you have. Did it ever occour to
> you that people in Cheyenne or OKC might come to Denver and
> think Kool 105 is a GREAT oldies station? (and before you
> just fire off a "heck no" think for just a second, NOT like
> a radio person. Their jocks are better, their promotions are
> better-- there's a lot of the right stuff going on at Kool
> 105).
>

Yeah, and did it ever occur to you that if KOOL had a deeper selection of oldies music that its numbers might be that much larger???!! Meaning that perhaps they're missing the boat by refusing to play a wider/deeper selection of oldies music. You're not gonna tell me that KOOL is "fat and happy" with its current ratings, are you??!! You know the first rule of success in any business is: Never be satisfied with where you are (even if you're number 1). Always be striving for more! Always be striving for an even bigger piece of the pie! Look at Wal*Mart, for example. They're the king of the hill in their line of business, but they keep on working harder and harder to get an larger share of the department store pie. Perhaps if KOOL would change its ways, it might gain a larger share of the Denver "oldies audience". Look at me. I listen to KOOL occasionally, but I'd listen to it a whole lot more than I do if I had a reason to! These days, I have no reason to tune in to KOOL that often because I'm tired of hearing the same old same old.----AND I STRONGLY SUSPECT THAT I'M NOT THE ONLY OLDIES FAN WHO FEELS THAT WAY ABOUT KOOL 105!!!!!!!!

>
> > >
> > > I don't know. But oldiescat missed my point on this one.
>
> > The size of an oldies station's market is neither here nor
>
> > there as far as I'm concerned. It's what they play (and
> how
> > often they play it, for better or worse) is what I was
> > getting at.
> >
> >
> > > > >
> > > > > If any oldies listener living in the Denver area
> took
> > > the
> > > > > time to listen to an oldies station from out of
> state,
> >
> > > > like
> > > > > KRRR in Wyoming or KOMA 92.5 FM in OKC, they would
> > know
> > > > what
> > > > > they're missing! When the sun went down in my area I
>
> > > could
> > > >
> > > > > get KOMA 1520 AM, and I would listen to KOMA at
> night.
> > I
> > >
> > > > > liked KOMA 1520 AM. It had a wide variety of music
> and
> >
> > > > great
> > > > > DJ's. KOOL 105 had nothing on KOMA AM, believe me!
> You
> >
> > > > want
> > > > > to talk about a "heritage station"?? KOMA was in a
> > class
> > >
> > > > by
> > > > > itself. Sadly, KOMA AM switched over to an all-news
> > > format
> > > > a
> > > > > few years back and now I don't have another oldies
> > > station
> > > >
> > > > > to listen to my area when the sun goes down! (Oh,
> > well!)
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also, just because a station is what it is, and
> > many
> > >
> > > > > > people
> > > > > > > have issues with it (or other stations in their
> > > > > listening
> > > > > > > area), that doesn't mean that that's the way it
> > has
> > > to
> > > >
> > > > > be!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your last post makes it seem that way! It's not
> > that
> > >
> > > > > way!
> > > > > > > Change is good! And if the music at a particular
>
> > > > station
> > > > >
> > > > > > > doesn't change (for the better), then perhaps
> the
> > > > > > management
> > > > > > > at that station needs to be changed!!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Maybe me and my friend strapshoe need to lead a
> > > > crusade
> > > > > in
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > the Denver listening area! Start a "listener
> > > > revolution"
> > > > >
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > some kind!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As I said, oldiescat, when you're the only
> > horse
> > >
> > > > in
> > > > > > > town,
> > > > > > > > > you can serve up whatever you want...and
> your
> > > > > > customers
> > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > no choice but to take from you, or simply go
>
> > > > > > > without.--And
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > that's true in any line of business.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you're an oldies fan, and you live in the
>
> > > > > > > > Denver-Boulder
> > > > > > > > > area, KOOL 105 (such that it is) is better
> > than
> > > > > > nothing.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So
> > > > > > > > > their numbers are, in fact, somewhat
> > misleading!
> > > I
> > > >
> > > > > > > listen
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > KOOL 105 from time to time, but I do have
> > > "issues"
> > > >
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > station. That station annoys me! If I could,
>
> > I'd
> > >
> > > > > > listen
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > another oldies station (with more variety)!!
>
> > I'm
> > >
> > > > an
> > > > > > > oldies
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > fan, so I'm stuck listening to KOOL 105!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

because,

My guess is that they've got good numbers on KRock 'till Howard's finished and they've flipped WNEW so often that going to JACK on that frequency might have been viewed more skeptically. Let's face it- as much as I may hate that they flipped CBS-FM, look at the press coverage and word-of-mouth it's gotten. Moving WNEW to Jack would have cost millions to market right out of the gate-
right now (negative or not), they're getting TONS of free pub.

I'm also not convinced this whole Infinity/NY thing is over. I've said on other boards that if they had a brain in their heads (which may be debatable for some), pretty soon they'll bring Oldies back to 102.7 and come off as heroes, like "wow, they really DID listen to New Yorkers!". It's a can't-lose deal--
ANYTHING has got to be better than what they've gotten on 102.7.


>
> yeah, but CBS FM was doing well. Top 10 all the time. They
> still flipped. How come they couldn't just flip Mix or K
> Rock. Two stations doing way worst and in a much deeper
> abyss than CBS.

Re: ugh

No. Size of playlist and ratings do not go hand-in-hand. You're really showing your lack of experience here.
> >
>
> Yeah, and did it ever occur to you that if KOOL had a deeper
> selection of oldies music that its numbers might be that
> much larger???!! Meaning that perhaps they're missing the
> boat by refusing to play a wider/deeper selection of oldies
> music. You're not gonna tell me that KOOL is "fat and happy"
> with its current ratings, are you??!! You know the first
> rule of success in any business is: Never be satisfied with
> where you are (even if you're number 1). Always be striving
> for more! Always be striving for an even bigger piece of the
> pie! Look at Wal*Mart, for example. They're the king of the
> hill in their line of business, but they keep on working
> harder and harder to get an larger share of the department
> store pie. Perhaps if KOOL would change its ways, it might
> gain a larger share of the Denver "oldies audience". Look at
> me. I listen to KOOL occasionally, but I'd listen to it a
> whole lot more than I do if I had a reason to! These days, I
> have no reason to tune in to KOOL that often because I'm
> tired of hearing the same old same old.----AND I STRONGLY
> SUSPECT THAT I'M NOT THE ONLY OLDIES FAN WHO FEELS THAT WAY
> ABOUT KOOL 105!!!!!!!!

Re: ugh

> No. Size of playlist and ratings do not go hand-in-hand.
> You're really showing your lack of experience here.

Definetly correct. Although, it would be nice if there was more variety.

> >
> > Yeah, and did it ever occur to you that if KOOL had a
> deeper
> > selection of oldies music that its numbers might be that
> > much larger???!! Meaning that perhaps they're missing the
> > boat by refusing to play a wider/deeper selection of
> oldies
> > music. You're not gonna tell me that KOOL is "fat and
> happy"
> > with its current ratings, are you??!! You know the first
> > rule of success in any business is: Never be satisfied
> with
> > where you are (even if you're number 1). Always be
> striving
> > for more! Always be striving for an even bigger piece of
> the
> > pie! Look at Wal*Mart, for example. They're the king of
> the
> > hill in their line of business, but they keep on working
> > harder and harder to get an larger share of the department
>
> > store pie. Perhaps if KOOL would change its ways, it might
>
> > gain a larger share of the Denver "oldies audience". Look
> at
> > me. I listen to KOOL occasionally, but I'd listen to it a
> > whole lot more than I do if I had a reason to! These days,
> I
> > have no reason to tune in to KOOL that often because I'm
> > tired of hearing the same old same old.----AND I STRONGLY
> > SUSPECT THAT I'M NOT THE ONLY OLDIES FAN WHO FEELS THAT
> WAY
> > ABOUT KOOL 105!!!!!!!!
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Dennis</P>

Re: ugh

> > No. Size of playlist and ratings do not go hand-in-hand.
>
> > You're really showing your lack of experience here.
>
> Definetly correct. Although, it would be nice if there was
> more variety.
>
Variety. That's the word! More variety (and talented DJs) equals better ratings.

> > >
> > > Yeah, and did it ever occur to you that if KOOL had a
> > deeper
> > > selection of oldies music that its numbers might be that
>
> > > much larger???!! Meaning that perhaps they're missing
> the
> > > boat by refusing to play a wider/deeper selection of
> > oldies
> > > music. You're not gonna tell me that KOOL is "fat and
> > happy"
> > > with its current ratings, are you??!! You know the first
>
> > > rule of success in any business is: Never be satisfied
> > with
> > > where you are (even if you're number 1). Always be
> > striving
> > > for more! Always be striving for an even bigger piece of
>
> > the
> > > pie! Look at Wal*Mart, for example. They're the king of
> > the
> > > hill in their line of business, but they keep on working
>
> > > harder and harder to get an larger share of the
> department
> >
> > > store pie. Perhaps if KOOL would change its ways, it
> might
> >
> > > gain a larger share of the Denver "oldies audience".
> Look
> > at
> > > me. I listen to KOOL occasionally, but I'd listen to it
> a
> > > whole lot more than I do if I had a reason to! These
> days,
> > I
> > > have no reason to tune in to KOOL that often because I'm
>
> > > tired of hearing the same old same old.----AND I
> STRONGLY
> > > SUSPECT THAT I'M NOT THE ONLY OLDIES FAN WHO FEELS THAT
> > WAY
> > > ABOUT KOOL 105!!!!!!!!
> >
>

Re: ugh

> > > No. Size of playlist and ratings do not go
> hand-in-hand.
> >
> > > You're really showing your lack of experience here.
> >
> > Definetly correct. Although, it would be nice if there was
>
> > more variety.
> >
> Variety. That's the word! More variety (and talented DJs)
> equals better ratings.

I'm sure variety and playlist play somewhat of a role, but the main factors are format and how the station is programmed.

>
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, and did it ever occur to you that if KOOL had a
> > > deeper
> > > > selection of oldies music that its numbers might be
> that
> >
> > > > much larger???!! Meaning that perhaps they're missing
> > the
> > > > boat by refusing to play a wider/deeper selection of
> > > oldies
> > > > music. You're not gonna tell me that KOOL is "fat and
> > > happy"
> > > > with its current ratings, are you??!! You know the
> first
> >
> > > > rule of success in any business is: Never be satisfied
>
> > > with
> > > > where you are (even if you're number 1). Always be
> > > striving
> > > > for more! Always be striving for an even bigger piece
> of
> >
> > > the
> > > > pie! Look at Wal*Mart, for example. They're the king
> of
> > > the
> > > > hill in their line of business, but they keep on
> working
> >
> > > > harder and harder to get an larger share of the
> > department
> > >
> > > > store pie. Perhaps if KOOL would change its ways, it
> > might
> > >
> > > > gain a larger share of the Denver "oldies audience".
> > Look
> > > at
> > > > me. I listen to KOOL occasionally, but I'd listen to
> it
> > a
> > > > whole lot more than I do if I had a reason to! These
> > days,
> > > I
> > > > have no reason to tune in to KOOL that often because
> I'm
> >
> > > > tired of hearing the same old same old.----AND I
> > STRONGLY
> > > > SUSPECT THAT I'M NOT THE ONLY OLDIES FAN WHO FEELS
> THAT
> > > WAY
> > > > ABOUT KOOL 105!!!!!!!!
> > >
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin</P>

but what is "variety"

More titles does not equal more "variety". Of course, however "more variety" can be defined in a lot of ways with a lot of variables, including:

* how your rotations are flowing (and proper use of recycling).

* variable clocks- many Programmers use one or two basic clocks but making
sure you don't have the same things coming at the same times WITH the same
production elements all the time can be a big deal.

* and properly rotating things OTHER THAN the music. This gets overlooked,
but if all the elements of programming, production and imaging get into ruts
and are done the same way at the same time, etc., I strongly believe that adds
major fatigue to the music.

Really good Programmers can make 450 titles sound like 1,000 if they're willing to put the time, effort and patience into the process. It also goes that the 1,200 titles "Jacks" may be playing may sound as repetitive as 350 songs if they're not constantly massaging and tweaking their titles and rotations.


> Definetly correct. Although, it would be nice if there was more variety.


> > No. Size of playlist and ratings do not go hand-in-hand.
> > You're really showing your lack of experience here.
>

>
> > >
> > > Yeah, and did it ever occur to you that if KOOL had a
> > deeper selection of oldies music that its numbers might be that
>> > > much larger???!!

who/where/when?

Please give us a specific example of this "more songs equals better ratings"]
mindset.

(PS- you're still dodging my other question about your Programming experience.
If you're going to espouse such theories, tell us where you've used them successfully. This is 4 times now you're refused to answer. One more dodge and your credibility is 100% shot).

> Variety. That's the word! More variety (and talented DJs) equals better ratings.
>
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, and did it ever occur to you that if KOOL had a
> > > deeper selection of oldies music that its numbers might be
> that much larger???!!

Re: but what is

> More titles does not equal more "variety". Of course,
> however "more variety" can be defined in a lot of ways with
> a lot of variables, including:
>
> * how your rotations are flowing (and proper use of
> recycling).
>
> * variable clocks- many Programmers use one or two basic
> clocks but making
> sure you don't have the same things coming at the same times
> WITH the same
> production elements all the time can be a big deal.
>
> * and properly rotating things OTHER THAN the music. This
> gets overlooked,
> but if all the elements of programming, production and
> imaging get into ruts
> and are done the same way at the same time, etc., I strongly
> believe that adds
> major fatigue to the music.
>
> Really good Programmers can make 450 titles sound like 1,000
> if they're willing to put the time, effort and patience into
> the process. It also goes that the 1,200 titles "Jacks" may
> be playing may sound as repetitive as 350 songs if they're
> not constantly massaging and tweaking their titles and
> rotations.
>
>

Variety in the sense of more artists being played and deeper cuts being played from said artists. Why are you making this so complicated, oldiescat? You know what the rest of us here are trying to say! And stop trying to derail the conversation with that "where have I worked before" question of yours! The point of this discussion is how to make any oldies station more appealing and satisfying to oldies listeners (and potential oldies listeners). Also, do me a favor, oldiescat, stop talking about "really good programmers" making 450 songs sound like 1,000 songs. 450 songs is still 450 songs! Period. (And I seriously doubt KOOL has 450 songs, to be honest with you! They're not even close to that number!!) You know, you're making this whole thing far more complicated than it needs to be. You really are a thick-headed person, aren't you??!!--Well, at least you gave up bugging the R-I administrators about that whole Detroit board-thing! Or at least I hope you did, anyway! You were getting pretty annoying over on that board too!!


> > Definetly correct. Although, it would be nice if there was
> more variety.
>
>
> > > No. Size of playlist and ratings do not go
> hand-in-hand.
> > > You're really showing your lack of experience here.
> >
>
> >
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, and did it ever occur to you that if KOOL had a
> > > deeper selection of oldies music that its numbers might
> be that
> >> > > much larger???!!
>

that's it,

our dialogue is over. Sorry, but it's obvious you are not seasoned nor mature enough to have a reasonable and professional exchange. Go back to your 250w AM daytimer and the rest of us will move on.

>
> Variety in the sense of more artists being played and deeper
> cuts being played from said artists. Why are you making this
> so complicated, oldiescat? You know what the rest of us here
> are trying to say! And stop trying to derail the
> conversation with that "where have I worked before" question
> of yours! The point of this discussion is how to make any
> oldies station more appealing and satisfying to oldies
> listeners (and potential oldies listeners). Also, do me a
> favor, oldiescat, stop talking about "really good
> programmers" making 450 songs sound like 1,000 songs. 450
> songs is still 450 songs! Period. (And I seriously doubt
> KOOL has 450 songs, to be honest with you! They're not even
> close to that number!!) You know, you're making this whole
> thing far more complicated than it needs to be. You really
> are a thick-headed person, aren't you??!!--Well, at least
> you gave up bugging the R-I administrators about that whole
> Detroit board-thing! Or at least I hope you did, anyway! You
> were getting pretty annoying over on that board too!!
>
>
> > > Definetly correct. Although, it would be nice if there
> was
> > more variety.
> >
> >
> > > > No. Size of playlist and ratings do not go
> > hand-in-hand.
> > > > You're really showing your lack of experience here.
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah, and did it ever occur to you that if KOOL had
> a
> > > > deeper selection of oldies music that its numbers
> might
> > be that
> > >> > > much larger???!!
> >
>

Re: that's it,

> our dialogue is over. Sorry, but it's obvious you are not
> seasoned nor mature enough to have a reasonable and
> professional exchange. Go back to your 250w AM daytimer and
> the rest of us will move on.
>
> > Us?! Oh, please! I would hardly say that "you" is "us", oldiescat.
But, whatever! Close the door behind you when you leave, oldiescat.
Thank you!

> > Variety in the sense of more artists being played and
> deeper
> > cuts being played from said artists. Why are you making
> this
> > so complicated, oldiescat? You know what the rest of us
> here
> > are trying to say! And stop trying to derail the
> > conversation with that "where have I worked before"
> question
> > of yours! The point of this discussion is how to make any
> > oldies station more appealing and satisfying to oldies
> > listeners (and potential oldies listeners). Also, do me a
> > favor, oldiescat, stop talking about "really good
> > programmers" making 450 songs sound like 1,000 songs. 450
> > songs is still 450 songs! Period. (And I seriously doubt
> > KOOL has 450 songs, to be honest with you! They're not
> even
> > close to that number!!) You know, you're making this whole
>
> > thing far more complicated than it needs to be. You really
>
> > are a thick-headed person, aren't you??!!--Well, at least
> > you gave up bugging the R-I administrators about that
> whole
> > Detroit board-thing! Or at least I hope you did, anyway!
> You
> > were getting pretty annoying over on that board too!!
> >
> >
> > > > Definetly correct. Although, it would be nice if there
>
> > was
> > > more variety.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > No. Size of playlist and ratings do not go
> > > hand-in-hand.
> > > > > You're really showing your lack of experience here.
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yeah, and did it ever occur to you that if KOOL
> had
> > a
> > > > > deeper selection of oldies music that its numbers
> > might
> > > be that
> > > >> > > much larger???!!
> > >
> >
>

Re: true

The thing people like to forget in this whole debate is what the listening pattern is for the "typical" radio listener. 20-35 minutes on their way to and from work and that's it. You hit it when you said comfortable, because people like what they know, and they know what they like. The problem with radio isn't that there isn't enough of a selection (I know many that have been turned off by satellite radio because it's truly no different), it's that the "free" radio listener who bitches is listening more than the average listener. I've got news for you, this was no different than in 1975, it only seems that way because we have become less tolerant with the advancement of technology. We want what we want when we want it! I have told many of listener if they want to hear ____ song so bad they should go buy the CD and they can put it on repeat and "burn" it to their heart's content. The problem is, they really don't wnat to hear that one song at that moment, if they did they would buy the CD or download the song. It's just like the "Jones" factor. You want what your neighbors want, and you want it now. But if you can't get it, you'll settle for the next best thing (SUV's and their 3-5 different classes are a good example). Too bad for satellite it's not them. It's still regular radio.

> Could be. The funny (and sometimes maddening) thing about
> radio listeners is that, in general, they'll put up with
> mediocrity because they're comfortable with what they
> usually listen to. When they travel, they'll hear a
> different Oldies station and kind go "wow- that was really
> great".
>
> We are all creatures of habit and will quite often lean
> toward what's comfortable vs. seeking out new choices--it's
> human nature and more true the older we get. That makes it
> especially challenging for any new station to get listeners
> to even give them a try, much less their loyalty.
>
>
> > >
> > > Hypothetically, if there was a way for Denverites to
> > listen to an alternative oldies station for just one day
> > (like the ones I've mentioned), they'd know what they're
> > missing.
>

>>First off where are you getting your Facts about the Jack station in Denver?

Did I say Denver? No. I said Jack's, "S". Trust me, the study was bogus.

>>I know for a fact that jack is very strong in Denver AND in
> Fort Collins as well! That station filled aviod that no
> other station could fill at all! That void is NO talk, Less
> commericals and More of the Music and I can tell you for a
> fact that alot of bussiness do tune into Jack! In fact I
> know of 3 bussiness off hand that does listen to jack for
> the Mix of Music!

Wow, three!!! That will make-up for their problems. Also, they are trying to target Denver, not Ft. Collins, where almost everything is VT'd. DENVER is their target! They want to make MONEY. How do I know? I spoke to Tim Brown about it a year ago, 6-months ago and just last week. Let's just say things are a bit tense above the Old Speghetti Factory (daddy war-bucks isn't so willing to keep money flowing into a pit). Also, rookie, you have to take into account that they (the 3 businesses in town that have Jack on all day) will remember that they're listening to Jack and will write them in a book, if they get one. As for hearing them in a business, I have heard KCUV more than I have heard Jack when I've walked into a place of business. Where is KCUV in the ratings? Jack is just that, Jacked by the public.

>>Plus I don't see KXKL going away any time soon! THat is also
> a very popular oldies station and infinity wouldn't be dumb
> enough to destroy a very successful station!

Yes, as we know popular oldies ststions were at the top of Infinity's list when they flipped WCBS and WJMK (get your head out of your butt)!! The only thing that saves Kool is that there are still a couple of Hot AC's in town (Mix and Alice). Let's let Entercom and Emmis...yes Emmis, again, get their act together. With Susquehanna up for sale and Infinity wanting to go Top 20 exclusivly (the Indian has San Fran and Dallas in those covetid markets, plus ABC and the few markets they're in are for sale too), and Entercom and Emmis wanting to grow, I smell a "trade" before the sales, and maybe another sale included before it's all done. Let's see what happens. Yes, Infinity in Denver could be sold if their (Infinity's) "plan" is true, which means someone who has no steak in the market (hello Emmis), or isn't at their limit (hello Entercom), could buy Infinity and what Tim Brown has left and do some creative trading and juggling.

>>> Yes comparing New York City to Denver? How Dumb is that? You
> can't, they got different inviroment up there and different
> people as well! So it is really pointless to compare to what happened to the
> oldies station there and here..

After what I've pointed out, is it now?

Please, rookie, when you've got the ratigs as a PD to show your brain has the ability to think beyond the box as you were "taught" in school, please join "us." There is a shake-up coming to the market. Some sales have to be finalized before it happens, but it's coming.

> > First, that study of Jack formats doing well in cume was a
>
> > bunch of crap. How's their TSL? Thank you. Look at our
> Jack
> > station for proof that they won't win any "battles" with
> the
> > cume factor (it can be done, but you need a decent TSL to
> do
> > it with and they doen't even have that). Also, their demo
> is
> > WAY off. The study showed it's strongest listeners are
> > younger than their target demo (conviently left out of the
>
> > part released to the public). Denver has a good core
> > audience for the oldies. The thing that could kill it, as
> it
> > did the Chicago and New York stations, is the evolution of
>
> > the format. Sure, people can say Jack is an 80s based
> format
> > that hits on both sides of the decade but lets be real,
> with
> > Infinity "buying" into it enough to create a position to
> > head-up their Jack operation, it's just a matter of time
> > before they take ownership of the product (Cadilliac Jack
> > will give in when the money comes his way) and they
> > (Infinity) will turn it into their oldies format that fits
>
> > the recent demo studies that show that most of the 30-45
> > crowd that oldies was trying to cater to by moving into
> 70's
> > and early 80's music didn't want to be associated with the
>
> > words "old," "classic," or any other word(s) that might
> > define them as getting old.
> >
> First off where are you getting your Facts about the Jack
> station in Denver?
> I know for a fact that jack is very strong in Denver AND in
> Fort Collins as well! That station filled aviod that no
> other station could fill at all! That void is NO talk, Less
> commericals and More of the Music and I can tell you for a
> fact that alot of bussiness do tune into Jack! In fact I
> know of 3 bussiness off hand that does listen to jack for
> the Mix of Music!
> 1. Is Fantastic Sams( They love the mix of music and the no
> Talk and less commericals)
> 2. Arbys on S.college has Jack on everyday
> 3. The MVR in the Larmier Court building on Mason!
> And proably alot more bussiness do tune into Jack and the
> ratings btw for Jack is very strong and very good!
> Plus I don't see KXKL going away any time soon! THat is also
> a very popular oldies station and infinity wouldn't be dumb
> enough to destroy a very successful station!
> Yes comparing New York City to Denver? How Dumb is that? You
> can't, they got different inviroment up there and different
> people as well!
> So it is really pointless to compare to what happened to the
> oldies station there and here..
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Hopefully you've been paying attention to the drama that
>
> > > gripped New York City in the past few weeks. My question
>
> > for
> > > Denver is: Could it happen here?
> > >
> > > What happened, of course, is that without warning on
> June
> > 3,
> > > the nation's pre-eminent oldies station, Infinity-owned
> > > WCBS-FM, dropped oldies after 33 years, fired the
> beloved
> > > Bruce "Cousin Brucie" Morrow and several other New York
> > > radio institutions, and went to the Jack format.
> > > Simultaneously, Infinity's Chicago oldies outlet did the
>
> > > same.
> > >
> > > “The research has shown us that people are looking for a
>
> > > radio station in their market with less repetition and
> > more
> > > variety,” said Les Hollander, Infinity's senior vice
> > > president. “Whether it’s radio, television, iPods or
> > > listening to music on your computer, people are
> beginning
> > to
> > > use media a little bit differently. In programming a
> radio
> >
> > > station, you have to take that into account.”
> > >
> > > More bluntly, another Infinity exec who begged anonymity
>
> > > said, "How are you going to get a 25-year-old ad
> salesman
> > to
> > > relate to the Dave Clark Five and the Platters?"
> > >
> > > Call the reasoning cold, call it age-discriminatory,
> call
> > it
> > > cheapskate. But they do have some facts on their side.
> > >
> > > * Even though radio remains more profitable than
> > newspapers,
> > > network TV sion and cable, its revenue growth from
> > > advertising may total less than 2 percent this year,
> down
> > > from about 6.5 percent in 2000.
> > >
> > > * Listenership and time spent listening is down. Radio’s
>
> > > total audience dropped 4 percent over the past year to
> 194
> >
> > > million, down from 203 million, according to the NPD
> Group
> >
> > > media research company in Port Washington, N.Y. And
> > Arbitron
> > > says average TSL has dwindled to 19 hours per week from
> 30
> >
> > > hours in 1993.
> > >
> > > * People are turning to the Web to download songs
> through
> > > such services as iTunes and listening to Internet radio.
>
> > >
> > > * And then there's competition from Sirius and XM. In
> > fact,
> > > Sirius just hired Cousin Brucie, and ran taunting
> > full-page
> > > ads in New York and Chicago, crowing "If a radio station
>
> > has
> > > suddenly abandoned the format you love,
> > > come to Sirius.”
> > >
> > > Which brings us to the other side.
> > >
> > > * WCBS-FM ranked SIXTH overall in the biggest radio
> market
> >
> > > in the country! And overalls include 12-plus, so can you
>
> > > imagine what it was doing with 35-54s?
> > >
> > > * And speaking of 35-54s, which demographic has a bigger
>
> > > pool of disposable income than the boomers? Given that,
> > what
> > > the heck makes the oldies format so demographically
> > > undesirable -- unless it's simply that the Gen-Xers out
> > > selling ads can't relate to it and thus don't WANT to
> sell
> >
> > > it?
> > >
> > > OK, now, that brings us back to Denver and Kool-105.
> > > INFINITY-OWNED Kool-105, that is. Our local Infinity
> > cluster
> > > has new leadership up there on the 11th floor of the
> > Denver
> > > Post Tower, doesn't it. New York-selected leadership.
> > >
> > > A saving grace is that we already have a Jack in Denver.
>
> > But
> > > still -- could a format change be in the offing for
> KXKL?
> > > Randy Jay and Da Boogieman and Steve Alexander and the
> > rest
> > > -- on the air today and on the street tomorrow?
> > >
> > > Might Infinity-Denver throw out its consistent top-10
> > oldies
> > > format, and those big-spending 35-to-54s with it? Should
>
> > it?
> > > And if it happened, would it be good business, or simply
>
> > one
> > > generation failing to relate to another?
> > >
> > > And is there another solution?
> > >
> > > What I think is that Infinity has abandoned a profitable
>
> > and
> > > influential segment of the audience and has created an
> > > enormous groundswell of bad will in New York --
> including
> > a
> > > blistering attack from New York's senior U.S. senator,
> > > Charles Schumer, on his website -- and has done much to
> > fuel
> > > the exodus from broadcast radio to satellite. Definitely
> a
> >
> > > Sirius setback for the defenders of free radio.
> > >
> > > But then, tomorrow (Thursday) is my 53rd birthday, so
> I'm
> > as
> > > biased as anybody.
> > >
> > > What do YOU think?
> > >
> >
>

more true

Great thoughts and quite true. "Thinking like a listener" is very, very difficult for radio types, no matter how much we think we "know what listeners want".

> The thing people like to forget in this whole debate is what
> the listening pattern is for the "typical" radio listener.
> 20-35 minutes on their way to and from work and that's it.
> You hit it when you said comfortable, because people like
> what they know, and they know what they like. The problem
> with radio isn't that there isn't enough of a selection (I
> know many that have been turned off by satellite radio
> because it's truly no different), it's that the "free" radio
> listener who bitches is listening more than the average
> listener. I've got news for you, this was no different than
> in 1975, it only seems that way because we have become less
> tolerant with the advancement of technology. We want what we
> want when we want it! I have told many of listener if they
> want to hear ____ song so bad they should go buy the CD and
> they can put it on repeat and "burn" it to their heart's
> content. The problem is, they really don't wnat to hear that
> one song at that moment, if they did they would buy the CD
> or download the song. It's just like the "Jones" factor. You
> want what your neighbors want, and you want it now. But if
> you can't get it, you'll settle for the next best thing
> (SUV's and their 3-5 different classes are a good example).
> Too bad for satellite it's not them. It's still regular
> radio.
>
> > Could be. The funny (and sometimes maddening) thing about
> > radio listeners is that, in general, they'll put up with
> > mediocrity because they're comfortable with what they
> > usually listen to. When they travel, they'll hear a
> > different Oldies station and kind go "wow- that was really
>
> > great".
> >
> > We are all creatures of habit and will quite often lean
> > toward what's comfortable vs. seeking out new
> choices--it's
> > human nature and more true the older we get. That makes
> it
> > especially challenging for any new station to get
> listeners
> > to even give them a try, much less their loyalty.
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > Hypothetically, if there was a way for Denverites to
> > > listen to an alternative oldies station for just one day
>
> > > (like the ones I've mentioned), they'd know what they're
>
> > > missing.
> >
>

> >>First off where are you getting your Facts about the Jack
> station in Denver?
>
> Did I say Denver? No. I said Jack's, "S". Trust me, the
> study was bogus.

I kinda figured that part out already! I had my hunch that the study was a fake, but wasn't sure of it.



> Wow, three!!! That will make-up for their problems. Also,
> they are trying to target Denver, not Ft. Collins, where
> almost everything is VT'd. DENVER is their target! They want
> to make MONEY. How do I know? I spoke to Tim Brown about it
> a year ago, 6-months ago and just last week. Let's just say
> things are a bit tense above the Old Speghetti Factory
> (daddy war-bucks isn't so willing to keep money flowing into
> a pit). Also, rookie, you have to take into account that
> they (the 3 businesses in town that have Jack on all day)
> will remember that they're listening to Jack and will write
> them in a book, if they get one. As for hearing them in a
> business, I have heard KCUV more than I have heard Jack when
> I've walked into a place of business. Where is KCUV in the
> ratings? Jack is just that, Jacked by the public.

So if i conform all of this, then everything well be true then huh?
So your thinking is that 105.5 JACK FM is a pit and making them loose money?
After all they were the first Jack Station to hit the US before everyone decided to follow them.
It's just not DENVER or the surrounding area that makes up the Jack's listening audiance at all! You are still stuck in Denver Land, think out side of Denver think around Denver like Longmont, Boulder, Fort Collins EVEN.. They also make up their ratings not just DENVER alone!
Yes buessiness up here and proably more around Northern Colorado does have Jack Tuned in!
I have no idea where you go that you hear KCUV, but that is ok..



>
> >>Plus I don't see KXKL going away any time soon! THat is
> also
> > a very popular oldies station and infinity wouldn't be
> dumb
> > enough to destroy a very successful station!
>
> Yes, as we know popular oldies ststions were at the top of
> Infinity's list when they flipped WCBS and WJMK (get your
> head out of your butt)!! The only thing that saves Kool is
> that there are still a couple of Hot AC's in town (Mix and
> Alice). Let's let Entercom and Emmis...yes Emmis, again, get
> their act together. With Susquehanna up for sale and
> Infinity wanting to go Top 20 exclusivly (the Indian has San
> Fran and Dallas in those covetid markets, plus ABC and the
> few markets they're in are for sale too), and Entercom and
> Emmis wanting to grow, I smell a "trade" before the sales,
> and maybe another sale included before it's all done. Let's
> see what happens. Yes, Infinity in Denver could be sold if
> their (Infinity's) "plan" is true, which means someone who
> has no steak in the market (hello Emmis), or isn't at their
> limit (hello Entercom), could buy Infinity and what Tim
> Brown has left and do some creative trading and juggling.

I don't see KOOL 105 leaving or being sold or even switching FOrmats anytime soon in the near future! They made a name for themselves and they are quite succeful of an oldies station!

Now why would Entercom want to by out Infinity? Is Infinity doing that poorly in the market? Are their stocks way down? Or are they trying to get out of Denver's Market? Btw I am not much of a ROOKIE at this game at all! I have been keeping tabs on the radio market for the last 11 yrs! I know what radio buessiness is all about, I even understand it!
So why would any selling be going on in the near future with Entercom and Infinity?



>
> >>> Yes comparing New York City to Denver? How Dumb is that?
> You
> > can't, they got different inviroment up there and
> different
> > people as well! So it is really pointless to compare to
> what happened to the
> > oldies station there and here..
>
> After what I've pointed out, is it now?
>
> Please, rookie, when you've got the ratigs as a PD to show
> your brain has the ability to think beyond the box as you
> were "taught" in school, please join "us." There is a
> shake-up coming to the market. Some sales have to be
> finalized before it happens, but it's coming.

Well we all know that 1150 AM hasn't be approved yet by the FCC, but that should happen before fall..
I don't see Jack changing formats either! Even though a RICH guy owns the company I just don';t see it happening!
Jack is doing just fine at the moment and everyone loves it, everyone enjoys the mix of music.. Just becasue you don't and just becasue you don't think so, it well still succeed! I just think that the rich person just wants to ruin it and toy with it. Why would a Rich guy even give a damn about a Radio bussiness anyways? All he wants to do is be greedy and make money and that is all he cares about!

For all he could give a damn about is making money like i said.. do you think he cares about ratings for Jack? No! He could have kept 1150 AM but he didn't becasue all he cares about is the money.. Nothing else.
But tell ya one thing the PD does care about the station, more then you would even realize! He loves his job so much he is also enjoying it to!
A radio station is what people make it to be, and they made jack into a Music station but also with personality! Not by the Hosts but by the Jack guy, while other jack stations never do that, and make it sound really dull and borning to listen to.. But our Jack Station has personality has a sense of humor, and it shows.
So yes it well be kept around for sometime..

Hi everyone:

> Hopefully you've been paying attention to the drama that
> gripped New York City in the past few weeks. My question for
> Denver is: Could it happen here?

Not likely because A). There's already a JACK format on 105.5 and B). KXKL is consistently in the Top 5 stations in the entire Denver market. Infinity would be committing SUICIDE if they flipped KXKL to ANYTHING except (maybe!) Urban Oldies (i.e. a swap with 92.5 which also isn't likely).

And let's not even discuss KIMN's situation. What a mess.

Just my opinion

Cheers for now

Pat Cook
Denver, Colorado <P ID="signature">______________
</a><a href="http://patspodcast.blogspot.com/></a>
Radio? What's THAT??? </P>