Mike Kaplan named PD of WRFF

[PrezSquid]

Like how come in the old days stuff like Rodney on the ROQ over at KROQ or whatever shows 91X we’re doing were playing unsigned or smaller artists who would either become hitmakers for the station or at least introduce an audience to a band they might like?

It’s how Blink-182 got a career. Now they’re one of the biggest bands ever for alternative.

 

[PrezSquid]

Does alternative not deserve that now? You gotta play some sort of new music. And a lot of commercial stations may play 30 currents, but a lot of them they shove to late night because the “data” claims people want to hear the same 30 year old hits, which is pretty sad if you ask me.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Why do you think I listed those albums of liked indie and alternative albums in the other page? It’s an example of what’s going on in alternative this year, it takes a simple google search and researching indie news sources for.

But I’m happy to discuss what you think should be played for alternative? I love Little Image, I’d play them too. It’s about getting the biggest audience as possible.

The issue is not as much about the overall availability of new alternative material as it is about the fragmentation in the tastes of those who like the overall genre. What we've seen for well over 15 years is that there are few alternative songs (radio plays "songs" and not "artists") that all alt proponents like. In most cases, there are three (or more) subsets and one group loves a song, another jut says it is okay and another hates it.

We see this fragmentation on everything done in the last decade and a half at least, leaving mostly the pre-2005 songs as being well liked by all the groups.

 

[CTListener]

Please, Mr. PrezSquident, could you indulge us boomers and X'ers and use the quote/reply feature?

 

[DavidEduardo]

Does alternative not deserve that now? You gotta play some sort of new music. And a lot of commercial stations may play 30 currents, but a lot of them they shove to late night because the “data” claims people want to hear the same 30 year old hits, which is pretty sad if you ask me.

The "data" is based on finding out what listeners themselves want to hear.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Like how come in the old days stuff like Rodney on the ROQ over at KROQ or whatever shows 91X we’re doing were playing unsigned or smaller artists who would either become hitmakers for the station or at least introduce an audience to a band they might like?

If you read BigA's posts, he has detailed how the record industry has consolidated and small labels are much less a factor. And the "Big 3" are not as actively involved in promotion of alternative for a variety of reasons, including sales potential and more limited international markets.

 

[brokentuner]

What I find most interesting is, this forum spends more of its collective time talking and discussing ALT as a format and it’s specific stations than any other, it seems. Goes to show you how hard of a format it is…how much it’s still relevant (no matter how poorly some feel it is done) and how many opinions there are about it’s survival. Truly interesting. I wont lie, I’ve even found myself more engaged with the format and it’s stations since being around here.

 

[TheBigA]

What I find most interesting is, this forum spends more of its collective time talking and discussing ALT as a format and it’s specific stations than any other, it seems. Goes to show you how hard of a format it is…how much it’s still relevant

Don't allow what a handful of people discuss here skew the reality of the situation. Alternative is only relevant to those who listen, not everybody else. Here are statistics on the most popular formats:

Format Scorecard: Country, AC, Classic Rock Are 2023’s Big Gainers, So Far.

Alternative is #16 in terms of monthly share of the ear, with 2.4%. Compared to News/Talk with 10%.

Country and classic rock are the most popular. If you look at the subjects being discussed on the Philly forum, a lot of people talk about WOGL and BEN-FM.

 

[Larry]

If you look at the subjects being discussed on the Philly forum, a lot of people talk about WOGL and BEN-FM.

And the 50,000 watt station at 1210 AM. Although 90+% of those posts are by one individual

 

[DOB]

Ok you really need to stop with the “I only list things I LIKE that are obscure to you” bull. I listed a bunch of artists that are critically acclaimed by music publications, music critics like Anthony Fantano who are popular, stuff that trends on Spotify, some that trends on alt radio or siriusxm, why do you keep thinking I’m into some literally who band with 5 plays or some stuff.

Admit it, you do not know anything about modern alternative.

I've been told that Don't stop believing, take on me, and living on a prayer for classic hits are "museum music", so if my Mediabase and my radios on 101.1 in NYC and LA seem to be differing from someone else's, the same could be true of your sources.

 

[PrezSquid]

I've been told that Don't stop believing, take on me, and living on a prayer for classic hits are "museum music", so if my Mediabase and my radios on 101.1 in NYC and LA seem to be differing from someone else's, the same could be true of your sources.

Sure, but I’d rather believe myself who actually hangs out with friends into this music, uses websites like Rateyourmusic where these are the highest rated of the year, watch and read music critics and publications, listen to Triple A and public radio which alternative imo should try to be more like, then you guys who seem to not even listen or like anything that comes out because you’re not in the know. Sorry.

 

[PrezSquid]

Like I’m sorry if I sound rude, I really do, but I have too much passion and would love to work for the industry one day that’d I’d be so upset and sad if it dies before I can even get a career.

Too much wasted potential.

 

[DavidEduardo]

And the 50,000 watt station at 1210 AM. Although 90+% of those posts are by one individual

And, for the umpteenth time, that poster and his sock puppets have been banned.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Like I’m sorry if I sound rude, I really do, but I have too much passion and would love to work for the industry one day that’d I’d be so upset and sad if it dies before I can even get a career.

I encourage you to consider "broadcasting" which includes all forms of content distribution. Radio on AM and FM may be dead or in decline, but the newer fields of streams and podcasts will welcome you.

Just keep in mind that those of us who program or have programmed have to understand that personal taste is often a detriment to sound business decisions. Listeners don't care about which songs you like personally. A programmer has to consider what their potential listeners like or might like; key is deciding if some songs may do more harm than good... even if you yourself love them!

 

[TheBigA]

I encourage you to consider "broadcasting" which includes all forms of content distribution. Radio on AM and FM may be dead or in decline, but the newer fields of streams and podcasts will welcome you.

Although those newer fields mainly hire technical or sales people. The programming side typically is on-demand, so the users generate their own playlists. Not very glamorous, if that what you think.

 

[macattack]

@PrezSquid, let me break things down to you in a way the others aren't.

1. Radio is never in the mood to take risks unless they are doing well in the ratings. Want to know why there's so many new country artists breaking out right now? While Internet virality is certainly a big factor in several of these hits, another, more relevant reason as far as this board is concerned, is that country radio is generally red-hot in the ratings across the country (outside of certain coastal areas where country music has never worked). Country is so big right now that country artists that apply a little more crunch than usual are crossing to Active Rock and Triple A. Zack Bryan, taking a different approach by fusing folk-pop into country with his single "Spotless", is making inroads at Alternative. Country, because there is so much confidence in the genre and radio format right now, is currently breaking more artists than all other genres. Alternative outside of Noah Kahan and Maneskin isn't really providing those new breakouts. The best Alternative has been able to do outside of those two is cross a warmed-up leftover in "Hell N Back" by Bakar and the aging Fall Out Boy with a Billy Joel cover.

2. There are a few Alternatives doing well. WLUM in Milwaukee. KPNT in St. Louis. WCYY in Portland, Maine (which is a smaller market so they don't hold a lot of sway). WWCD in Cleveland is also doing well from what I understand, though they're a borderline noncommercial at this point. A few others exist, but overall there's not many. By taking a gander at their playlists, you will see that they are taking risks. For example, KPNT is trying to break The Kills, Dexter & The Moonrocks, and Sleep Token, all of whom are new bands, right now. But that isn't going to happen with WRFF. Even if the 6+ looks solid, there are other factors involved, and overall the station is underbilling.

3. The "Big 3" radio conglomerates (iHeart, Audacy, and Cumulus) are all sick to some extent. They're in no mood to take risks right now even if they have an individual station doing well. Audacy's KVIL in Dallas, TX is doing quite well in the key 18-34 demo, but outside of being Audacy's test station for crossovers to Alternative from Active Rock, they're playing it really safe with currents. As long as the formula works, Audacy isn't going to risk screwing it up because they need every penny KVIL brings in. You can call this a self-fulfilling prophecy and maybe it is, but right now nobody in Alternative radio outside of the exceptions I listed above wants to take risks or be the cutting-edge radio station.

4. One thing often overlooked is that pop radio is the other side of Alternative's coin. The two formats are linked in their approaches. Alternative first formed as a response to CHR/Pop radio and is meant to be programmed the same way - with lots of variety and a connection to the pulse of America. Alternative is meant to be pop's "cool younger sister" and artists are meant to graduate from Alt to Pop. Guess what? Pop is just as sick as Alternative right now, perhaps even worse. Same afflictions for the most part, and this is forcing Pop to rely more and more on golds and recurrent tracks from the last couple of years. Right now, Pop is begrudgingly crossing country artists over in bulk out of lack of new music to play, and it remains to be seen how receptive Pop's audience is. "Last Night" by Morgan Wallen couldn't hit #1 on pop radio, it could barely scrape the top 5. This is despite the fact that it's going to go down as the biggest song in the United States of this year, so that might be a hint as to how well Pop audiences are taking the country invasion.

In short, Alternative radio is sick, just like its big sister Pop is sick. Risks aren't going to be taken right now. If you want risky Alternative radio, I suggest streaming WLUM, WWCD, or KPNT, because that's where the action is at. It won't be at WRFF and it will likely never be.

(Besides, Mike The Show Killer might get the bright idea to cross somebody like Doja Cat to Alternative and we get to watch things implode all over again! Won't that be fun?)

 

[TheBigA]

Alternative first formed as a response to CHR/Pop radio and is meant to be programmed the same way - with lots of variety and a connection to the pulse of America.

I'm not sure I agree with that, although I agree with everything else in your post. Alternative first formed as a response to bloated rock music. The rock stations weren't sure if they wanted to play a lot of it at the time. CHR was at another low spot, so it embraced a lot of alternative music for a few years. But then dumped it when pop re-emerged. You're right that the strength of CHR is variety, which is why some country fits the format now.

Right now, Pop is begrudgingly crossing country artists over in bulk out of lack of new music to play, and it remains to be seen how receptive Pop's audience is.

The fact of the matter is that the country format simply has too much great new music and artists for itself. They're better at writing and producing music that sounds good on the radio, and resonates with mass audiences. That's what you need to get country airplay. Nothing in alternative is getting as much action as Zach Bryan, so they might as well play him.

 

[macattack]

I'm not sure I agree with that, although I agree with everything else in your post. Alternative first formed as a response to bloated rock music. The rock stations weren't sure if they wanted to play a lot of it at the time. CHR was at another low spot, so it embraced a lot of alternative music for a few years. But then dumped it when pop re-emerged. You're right that the strength of CHR is variety, which is why some country fits the format now.

To clarify, I was specifically referring to the roots of the Alternative format with KROQ’s “Roq of the 80’s” that Rick Carroll put into place that mimicked CHR/Pop’s presentation and approach and 91X’s formation in 1983 that codified the programming style. I was not referring to the breakout of Alternative in the mid-90’s, though you are correct about CHR/Pop being at a low point and rock radio’s nervousness about playing a lot of it during that time.

 

[chrocket87]

To piggyback on macattack’s point, it’s not just an Alternative problem. Over the last few months, several heritage CHRs have placed greater emphasis on gold product as a result of a diminished number of well-testing currents. Whether they’re doing this until the currents can resonate better or if this is the future of the format(s) is to be determined.

To the point of shoving currents into overnights, again, that’s not just an Alternative problem. Take a look at the Mediabase AC chart and see some of the weird stuff that some stations play in overnights. This goes back to the fact that with Alternative, a lot of currents are quite risky, so do you risk alienating more of your audience during the daytime hours or take the chances overnight when less people are there to hear a potentially hated song?

Macattack: WWCD is two hours down I-71 in Columbus. WNWV is here in Cleveland and has a considerably safer playlist than WWCD, but not quite as safe as an Audacy or iHeart owned.

BTW, WRFF has a new music show on Sunday nights. Allows them to take chances on new songs/artists, but alienates the fewest possible listeners.

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

I've been told that Don't stop believing, take on me, and living on a prayer for classic hits are "museum music", so if my Mediabase and my radios on 101.1 in NYC and LA seem to be differing from someone else's, the same could be true of your sources.

What’s been said here is classic hits stations (and their ilk) don’t exist to be music museums. That context is clearly that just because song X was a number-whatever hit back in 1980-something, does not mean it automatically gets played today (or played with the frequency of some others). The job of those stations is to find the songs of yesteryear that are hits today…to the target demo.

If Livin’ on a Prayer is a hit with the target audience here in the year of our lord 2023, then it’s not “museum” music, whatever some supposed soul “told” you. (Was it Tweety Bird? That little stinker is always saying things he shouldn’t be. Need to sic a cat on him.)