Do lower charting songs make good recurrents/golds?

[RyanHoward]

Several stations in KC and around the country I have noticed mix in songs that weren't really big "hits," or even well-known as recurrents or golds. For example, our CHR Mix 93.3 has been spinning "Take Me Home" by Cash Cash/Bebe Rexa and "Company" by Justin Bieber, both of which were not huge hits. Also, my alternative station 96.5 The Buzz also does this, as do many Entercom alternative stations, spinning deeper cuts of groups, especially during specialty hours. For example, this morning, they played Sublime's "Same in the End" and "KRS One." I've heard others around the country do this as well, spinning songs like Kiesha's "Hideaway." What are your thoughts of this practice and does it work?

"Hideaway" is by Daya, not Kiesha.

 

[oldies76]

No matter what song you play, you always know there are people who love the song and those that hate the song. It's the ones in the middle that are actually the most tough listeners. So, I guess my thought on this is that often, slightly lower charting oldies seem to be more humane on listeners ears than those in the Top 5 that have been played every day some where on a station in a market for 40+ years. Some hits you still want to eagerly hear. Other hits have just become hard to hear again. But, you have to play them if you are a greatest hits-style format. Then, there are songs that charted for maybe a week or two and disappeared. Those are the songs we in the business may know, but the listeners would have no idea what the song is or why we are playing them, so they tune out. Gotta play the hits, but you have to figure out how to not overplay the overplayed. A little time out of rotation is a conversation for another time.

True....but there are many songs that charted for weeks on end, been #1 for many weeks or stayed in the top 40 for months, and some of those are avoided today. And remember, even the songs that stayed on top for one week, two weeks or were huge one hit wonders, were very successful back in their day. In the 70's primarily, many songs were on top for just a week or two, turnover was high, but were still big hits. 45's were bought and radio played them.

As for the overplays, totally agree that those should be cut back. Too much of a good thing, is not always good.

 

[oldies76]

Bottom line, "Old Time Rock n Roll" by Seger, "Another One Bites The Dust" by Queen, "Don't Stop" by Fleetwood Mac, (your example), and many other tested tunes dominate classic stations. I immediately tune out, but again, I am not typical. Are there other listeners like me? Of course, but they don't usually show up in numbers high enough to support such a diversified playlist.

Hey, we're not the only ones that tune out...guaranteed. Ask anyone (and I mean anyone) that listens to the radio for music....what's the consistent complaint?? Too much repetition and overplays, few of my favorites get played, too many commercials.....etc... The list goes on and on....... It's rough!

 

[tall_guy1]

"Hideaway" is by Daya, not Kiesha.

Actually, there's a lower charting one I'm referring to with the same title by the artist Kiesha (not to be confused with Ke$ha.)

 

[Kent]

Hey, we're not the only ones that tune out...guaranteed. Ask anyone (and I mean anyone) that listens to the radio for music....what's the consistent complaint?? Too much repetition and overplays, few of my favorites get played, too many commercials.....etc... The list goes on and on....... It's rough!

People complain about the repetition, but they also complain, "I don't hear my favorite songs enough." It's really a tough balance to work when you program a station.

 

[Tibbs4]

True....but there are many songs that charted for weeks on end, been #1 for many weeks or stayed in the top 40 for months, and some of those are avoided today. And remember, even the songs that stayed on top for one week, two weeks or were huge one hit wonders, were very successful back in their day. In the 70's primarily, many songs were on top for just a week or two, turnover was high, but were still big hits. 45's were bought and radio played them.

As for the overplays, totally agree that those should be cut back. Too much of a good thing, is not always good.

Hi Oldies76 - can you give us a handful of the songs you are thinking fit your comment? It is funny that there is proof that too many songs on a playlist hurts ratings. There have been many times that I have said the best way to win in the ratings is to only play songs you, as a music director or on air personality HATE.

 

[oldies76]

Hi Oldies76 - can you give us a handful of the songs you are thinking fit your comment? It is funny that there is proof that too many songs on a playlist hurts ratings. There have been many times that I have said the best way to win in the ratings is to only play songs you, as a music director or on air personality HATE.

Hello Tibbs4......Well, to start (I know these are not played in some major markets (LA, NYC..etc..), Here's a small sample...

Nobody Does it Better - 1977 #2 3 weeks, 25 weeks on Hot 100 (James Bond movie theme)
Reunited - 1979 #1 4 weeks, 23 weeks on the Hot 100
Babe - 1979 #1 2 weeks, 19 weeks on Hot 100
Love You Inside Out - 1979 #1, 1 week, 19 weeks on Hot 100 (It is the Bee Gees afterall....)
Lady - 1980 #1 6 weeks, 25 weeks on Hot 100
Magic - 1980 #1 4 weeks, 23 weeks on Hot 100
Waiting For A Girl Like You - 1981 #2, 10 weeks, 23 weeks on Hot 100 (Huge song, blocked from #1 by Olivia!)
Steppin' Out - 1982 #6 4 weeks, 27 weeks on Hot 100
You Should Hear How She Talks About You - 1982 #5 3 weeks, 25 weeks on 100 (more upbeat than any listed here!)

Trouble - 1982 #9 2 weeks, 19 weeks on 100

I think you can figure out where I'm headed here...they are big hits, but on the A/C side. And there's a heck of a list besides the ones I posted for you. And of course, I didn't list Boone's 10 week #1 song, no one plays that anyways.

I realize that the softer songs of the late 70's and early 80's, seem "too soft" for classic hits radio these days, but indeed, many of them were huge hits and I believe they would do well today. They are well-remembered.

 

[CTListener]

Hello Tibbs4......Well, to start (I know these are not played in some major markets (LA, NYC..etc..), Here's a small sample...

Nobody Does it Better - 1977 #2 3 weeks, 25 weeks on Hot 100 (James Bond movie theme)
Reunited - 1979 #1 4 weeks, 23 weeks on the Hot 100
Babe - 1979 #1 2 weeks, 19 weeks on Hot 100
Love You Inside Out - 1979 #1, 1 week, 19 weeks on Hot 100 (It is the Bee Gees afterall....)
Lady - 1980 #1 6 weeks, 25 weeks on Hot 100
Magic - 1980 #1 4 weeks, 23 weeks on Hot 100
Waiting For A Girl Like You - 1981 #2, 10 weeks, 23 weeks on Hot 100 (Huge song, blocked from #1 by Olivia!)
Steppin' Out - 1982 #6 4 weeks, 27 weeks on Hot 100
You Should Hear How She Talks About You - 1982 #5 3 weeks, 25 weeks on 100 (more upbeat than any listed here!)

Trouble - 1982 #9 2 weeks, 19 weeks on 100

I think you can figure out where I'm headed here...they are big hits, but on the A/C side. And there's a heck of a list besides the ones I posted for you. And of course, I didn't list Boone's 10 week #1 song, no one plays that anyways.

I realize that the softer songs of the late 70's and early 80's, seem "too soft" for classic hits radio these days, but indeed, many of them were huge hits and I believe they would do well today. They are well-remembered.

And yet songs of that type get tested again and again and never generate enough enthusiasm to crack classic hits playlists. About the only places I hear any of the softer late '70s/early '80s Top 40 sounds (and that was a very dark period for Top 40: Disco was dead and rock was happening only at AOR -- where it had been pushed by disco -- and there was barely any difference between AC and CHR) is in CVS, where the in-house music feed will often surprise me with "I Go Crazy" or "I Want to Know What Love Is." Supermarket music is more contemporary and uptempo, but just last year I heard that 10-week No. 1 at a Big Y (small regional chain) store here in Connecticut!

 

[TheBigA]

They are well-remembered.

Based on the dates you gave, they are well-remembered by people who are about 60 years old.

 

[firepoint525]

So, this is thread is actually a really interesting topic. Dealing with an oldies format that has "no new music" has it's issues. I want to maybe get everyone to talk about a perplexing issue of what I call "obvious overkill" vs. "tried and tested." These terms lead to such groups as the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac and Hall and Oates. There are obviously a ton of charted HITs from these groups. But, I contend the smart way to process these hits are to look at each song and attempt to "play them," but not run an already run song back into the ground for the billionth time. "Don't Stop," "Dreams," "Tusk" and "Landslide" are good examples of a band with numerous songs that could be part of an oldies format. The songs all test ok. "Don't Stop" is a song that tests, but also has been overplayed. The way to avoid tune out, in my opinion is to program it to not play the song during the same jock's shift each week and only play it three or four times a week. It's there, but not every 18 hours. "Landside" tests positive. But, it does not have the extreme burn out factor. It get's close to the same number of plays a week. It has less fatigue. Of course groups or artists with just one or a few hits that have stood the test of time require air play to complete the format, so it lessens the options if it was obviously a one hit wonder.

Tibbs, you mentioned "Tusk." Wasn't that one a head-scratcher? Fleetwood Mac stays out of the spotlight for two years to work on a Rumors followup, and they lead off with THAT? But apparently, it does still "test" well because I still actually hear it occasionally. But I think that a "lesser" group probably wouldn't have gotten away with something like that.

No matter what song you play, you always know there are people who love the song and those that hate the song. It's the ones in the middle that are actually the most tough listeners. So, I guess my thought on this is that often, slightly lower charting oldies seem to be more humane on listeners ears than those in the Top 5 that have been played every day some where on a station in a market for 40+ years. Some hits you still want to eagerly hear. Other hits have just become hard to hear again. But, you have to play them if you are a greatest hits-style format. Then, there are songs that charted for maybe a week or two and disappeared. Those are the songs we in the business may know, but the listeners would have no idea what the song is or why we are playing them, so they tune out. Gotta play the hits, but you have to figure out how to not overplay the overplayed. A little time out of rotation is a conversation for another time.

In the early '90s, I worked for a station that still had that godawful reel-to-reel automation at the time. Because it was automated, we didn't really have any direct control over what was played. But after a few months, we shifted from one set of tapes to another. And because it was automated, we didn't announce title and artist of what we played. But we started getting calls from listeners (after we switched to that other set of tapes) asking, "what was that?" or "who sang that?" I usually had my Whitburn book handy (or else I already knew who sang it!), so I was usually able to answer such listeners if the calls came during my shift.

 

[firepoint525]

People complain about the repetition, but they also complain, "I don't hear my favorite songs enough." It's really a tough balance to work when you program a station.

I have literally NEVER heard anyone complain that they "don't hear their favorites enough." Literally never. If there is anyone like that, point them in the direction of their own music collection. Then they can hear their favorites as much as they want.

 

[firepoint525]

Steppin' Out - 1982 #6 4 weeks, 27 weeks on Hot 100

Interesting that you should mention this one. Classic hits 93.3 plays it fairly regularly.
http://www.933classichits.com/

And no, I am not 60 years old!

 

[CTListener]

I have literally NEVER heard anyone complain that they "don't hear their favorites enough." Literally never. If there is anyone like that, point them in the direction of their own music collection. Then they can hear their favorites as much as they want.

Not everyone is a music collector, and very few people buy or download every song they like, or every album by artists they like. Many folks do all or almost all of their music listening on radio. That describes me. I have maybe 50 albums, total, and zero downloads. But I enjoy a wide variety of genres and, between FM, satellite and online, I can listen to something I like any time I want to. And yes, I spend more time with stations/channels/streams that play more of my favorites and less of the songs I don't like. By spreading my listening around, I avoid burnout, but actually, there are songs from my youth and early adult years ('60s and '70s) that I really wouldn't mind hearing every single day and that I don't have on CD.

 

[TheBigA]

Interesting that you should mention this one. Classic hits 93.3 plays it fairly regularly.

This is an interesting station. It's a 2K AM station with a 250 watt FM translator that gets a 1 share in the ratings. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Just an observation.

 

[firepoint525]

This is an interesting station. It's a 2K AM station with a 250 watt FM translator that gets a 1 share in the ratings. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Just an observation.

Yeah, I can't even get it here at home. Just making him aware of it so that he can listen online.

 

[oldies76]

Interesting that you should mention this one. Classic hits 93.3 plays it fairly regularly.
http://www.933classichits.com/

And no, I am not 60 years old!

Songs that were popular in 1982 (and listeners in their mid teens then, such as myself) are people who are 50 today, not 60, that would apply to 1972 music. Not sure why A would mention 60yrs. on early 80's hits. I'll have to check that station out.

 

[oldies76]

I have literally NEVER heard anyone complain that they "don't hear their favorites enough." Literally never. If there is anyone like that, point them in the direction of their own music collection. Then they can hear their favorites as much as they want.

The "consensus" favorites are played, but individual, personal favorites are notoriously absent from the airwaves. That's the complaint, lack of personal favs.

 

[TheBigA]

Not sure why A would mention 60yrs. on early 80's hits.

The songs on your list were late 70s/early 80s Some who was in their teens in the 70s would be close to 60. But even if we're talking about people who are 50, that's getting towards the end of the sellable demo.

The "consensus" favorites are played, but individual, personal favorites are notoriously absent from the airwaves. That's the complaint, lack of personal favs.

Consensus is how radio programs. Trying to reach a mass audience. Personal faves are for personal music devices.

 

[DavidEduardo]

The "consensus" favorites are played, but individual, personal favorites are notoriously absent from the airwaves. That's the complaint, lack of personal favs.

The very simple issue here is that non-consensus songs are disliked or burnt ("developed dislike") with other, often large, parts of the target audience. Every time one of those is played, those listeners who do not like it will tune out or develop negative feelings about the stations.

Just as "variety" means "they play songs I like", "too much repetition" means "they play too many songs I don't like too often".

 

[oldies76]

http://www.933classichits.com/

Good station! Lots of familiars /semi familiars with a few lesser-played tunes each hour. They must have read my mind! And looks like no repeats all day long which is desirable. I will bookmark them. Do they do any weekend fun, specials with their vast playlist?

Hearing "Say It Isn't So" from 1983....been a while for that gem! Thank you Firepoint.