WBZ-AM No Longer 1st

[DavidEduardo]

OK...add WDUV reference...my points still stands.

rarely does a station go up a lot in their demo and down in the 6+

Now if you would like to debate the definition of the words rarely and a lot.

My main point again "However, when specific demos are not available, I'll look at 6+ #'s over nothing any day."

You are free to agree or disagree with my opinion.

The reason it seems uncommon to you is that the underlying demo shifts are not publicly revealed.

Here are things from the last couple of years in LA... one single market.

Caveat: in PPM markets it is harder to see these changes as the ratings are monthly. In the diary markets or in diary days in larger ones, a change that affected 12+ negatively while growing 25-54 was much more clear as it covered 12 weeks rather than 28 days.

KTWV tried to blow off the seniors and geezers in 2013-2014. They did, and 25-54 grew, but not enough.

KRTH blew off the older folks last year, took a ratings hit but grew immediately in 25-54. Afterwards, 25-54 continued to grow.

KKGO eliminated most of the older country, and dipped in 12+ but made up for it in slightly better sales demos in a decidedly non-country market.

KOST took advantage of the Christmas music holiday period to slipstream a music update. The decline in 12+ was masked by Christmas and they came back stronger in 25-54. Very skillfully done.

A few years back, KBIG transitioned to Hot AC, and blew away a lot of 12+ but made it up quickly in 25-44 gains.

A few months ago, KRCD freshened its music and blew off some 12+ but reinforced 18-49. The transition can be seen clearly in the last three weeks.

92.3 changed format and kicked off with 10,000 joints in a row. That attracted the youngest audience segment. They then added a morning show which blew off the young part while improving the 25-34.

KFI has been on an ongoing campaign to shed geezers and improve 25-54. The 12+ losses mask slight 25-54 gains. Since this is an AM talk station, it will move at the speed of an aging snail.

And that's just the more apparent ones in recent years in one market. This kind of refreshing is very, very common as stations readjust to keep the demographic profile constant. Usually it is so gradually done that the 12+ change looks like a wobble and the younger demo changed so minimally that it was masked too.

 

[Wimmmex]

The reason it seems uncommon to you is that the underlying demo shifts are not publicly revealed.

.

Say what? I've seen plenty of underlying demo shifts, and ratings analysis to make you head spin.

Here are things from the last couple of years in LA... one single market.

These are all anecdotal...unless you want to quote specific books/months and demo shares.

But again, my main point again "However, when specific demos are not available, I'll look at 6+ #'s over nothing any day."

You would apparently rather look at nothing?


But it appears you would like to argue the definition of the words rarely and a lot.

Remember the whole world doesn't revolve around your perspective.

The 12+ losses

Usually it is so gradually done that the 12+ change

.

You do know that we are referring to the 6+ demo these days right?

 

[DavidEduardo]

Say what? I've seen plenty of underlying demo shifts, and ratings analysis to make you head spin.

Anyone in the industry is aware of demo shifting and the consequences of trying to move an aging station younger... or trying to make a teen station more adult. My point is that, unless you are party to the changes, you may not even see them from afar since most of those changes are masked by the normal wobble of Hooper, Pulse, Arbitron or Nielsen.

These are all anecdotal...unless you want to quote specific books/months and demo shares.

I'm sure I could go and find many of these and by asking, find even more. I have enough issues keeping track of the 67 stations I am directly involved with and knowing which changes are meaningful and which are statistical issues.

But again, my main point again "However, when specific demos are not available, I'll look at 6+ #'s over nothing any day."

I suppose that, with no other data, nebulous data is better than none. I certainly would not use 12+ or 6+ to base any kind of decision on.

You would apparently rather look at nothing?

I am frequently cautioning people to not look at 12+ or 6+ as there is a risk in being mislead by meaningless data to the point of distraction from the important figures. So in some cases, looking at nothing may be less dangerous.

Remember the whole world doesn't revolve around your perspective.

My "perspective" is the same as that of any station operations team: look at the numbers that buyers care about.

And, again, there is a reason that Nielsen gives away 6+ and 12+ numbers: they are valueless for sales.

You do know that we are referring to the 6+ demo these days right?

Maybe in 48 of the top 50 markets. But in the other 200 or so measured markets, we are still looking at 12+.

You know the reason why 6-11 was added when the PPM was in development?

 

[Wimmmex]

My point is that, unless you are party to the changes, you may not even see them from afar since most of those changes are masked by the normal wobble of Hooper, Pulse, Arbitron or Nielsen.

And my point is that I am aware of of the changes.

I suppose that, with no other data, nebulous data is better than none.

Thank you for making my point.

My "perspective" is the same as that of any station operations team: look at the numbers that buyers care about.

Yes, looking at demos,targets, cells...is nice when you have access to them. But that's not the point.

And, again, there is a reason that Nielsen gives away 6+ and 12+ numbers: they are valueless for sales. [/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]


I have never mentioned the sales effort....again, you miss the point.

Maybe in 48 of the top 50 markets. But in the other 200 or so measured markets, we are still looking at 12+.

You were talking about LA...and that's what I commented on.