Yes, and Tony the Tiger and WWE. I think he was at KHJ after CKLW.
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Program Directors vs. Music Directors
- Thread starter michael hagerty
- Start date
It wasn't my intention to be condescending, but the impression I got from what you wrote was that you didn't really comprehend just how much Ruth had to have going for her to program in New York City, much less have that be her first programming job and how well-educated and prepared in programming theory she was from three years of working as Todd's assistant.
Mentoring and networking will only get you so far. You have to deliver once you have the gig. And Ruth Meyer was one of the greatest Top 40 PDs ever.
She's right about that last part, and that's why she had Ruth Meyer on her show (which I've heard).
But the "chick job" remark isn't Rollye downplaying the importance of the job---it's a frustration (which she and I discussed once at a common friend's wedding) that Alene McKinney and Tess Russell were never promoted from MD to PD at KMPC, or Rosalie Trombley at CKLW, or Carol Archer or Rollye herself at KFRC (Rollye succeeded Carol), or Betty Brenneman or Shaune McNamara at KHJ. And she's right there, too. Every one of those women would have made a stellar Program Director and should have had those jobs.
Daryl, our entire interaction on this topic has been about my regard for these women (some of whom I've had the honor of meeting and a couple of whom I have the great fortune of being friends with) and their abilities. Something that seemed necessary after I listed most of the women above as examples of women with major-market MD jobs a couple of weeks ago and you responded with this:
So, if I've been a little over-zealous in emphasizing the abilities, talent and credentials of those women, I come by it honestly.
This board is used as source material for students of broadcasting, for journalists writing about the field and for filmmakers trying to re-create eras. Several of us here, myself included, answered questions and provided archival material for Quentin Tarantino's company when they were in pre-production research on "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood" (a good portion of the soundtrack is from airchecks of KHJ and there was a scene shot with an actor playing Humble Harve that wound up on the cutting room floor).
They found us through this site.
There is at least one documentary currently being filmed about AM radio that some of us here have provided research and interviews for. One of the first things we did was suggest the writer/producer read this board.
So, when someone posts something in error, we correct the error. David and Frank and several dozen other contributors here are as committed to accuracy on this board as I am. That's been part of what happens here for more than 20 years. If my corrections or additions are a bit more detailed than others, it's because I look them up and confirm what's real versus what someone wrote wrong the first time years before.
Well, lesseee here....Radio 128, replying to the CKLW newscast I posted, said:
Grant Hudson was a lot younger than he sounded. Research shows he passed away in 2021 at the age of 76. I didn't see the date of this aircheck but I'm guessing 1973-75 so he would have been in the 27-29 age range.
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My reply:
"There's no date on the aircheck, but that news open was used from 1969-72, so he'd have been a bit younger---24-27."
I provided information Radio 128 noted was missing, and that not only supported but enhanced his point that Grant Hudson was a lot younger than he sounded. That wasn't a stern correction, it was an agreement.
Here's what Tomas Estefan said:
Just my guess but I've always assumed that the 20-20 news idea was a way of "hiding the news". Most stations back in the day had news at the top of the hour just after the legal ID, or at :55 until the legal ID. It served as a method of drawing listeners away from everybody else. KNX and KFWB used the inverse of the concept when BOTH stations scheduled sports at :15 and :45 so that if you didn't want or need a sports update at that time you wouldn't bother to push the other stations button or preset because you're still going to have to sit through 2 minutes of sports news.
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And here's what I actually said:
Top and bottom of the hour was traditional. In L.A., Chuck Blore was the first to try alternate news times, with a newscast at :55 and a news feature called "L.A. Today" at :15.
KRLA, which went Top 40 a year later, chose to avoid clutter by putting one big nine-minute newscast on at :50 that would run to a countdown to the ID at :59.
So when Bill Drake launched KHJ, he had to choose. In San Diego, at KGB, which he consulted, the newscasts were at :15 and :45---which would overlap KFWB's :15 and part of KRLA's :50. Not optimal. Top and bottom destroys the staging of the legal ID at the top and bottom of the hour.
So he went with :20 and :40 (though the :20s were very infrequent---and usually in morning drive only). KHJ would be in a newscast from :40 to :50 and anyone tuning out would run into a newscast on KRLA immediately and on KFWB five minutes later. Meantime, KHJ would often be in a music sweep all the way to :06.
By the way, Drake would not have considered "hiding" a newscast. While he wasn't a fan of being forced to do news, he's quoted as saying "If we have to do news---it's gonna be the best news." And the RKO Top 40 stations had tremendous news organizations.
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Worth noting---Tomas Estefan "liked" my reply and the conversation continued for several rounds about the news staffs at KHJ and KRLA, drawing David in, who brought up CKLW's approach to news, which led to my posting an aircheck for those who'd never heard it and....we're back to Radio 128.
By the way Hudson/Reese was more versatile than he might have seemed. He sometimes filled in on the CBC national news (originating from Windsor. In a Facebook exchange he talked about doing the 5pm national news "read by Jim Reese" then heading down Oulette for the 5:40 news on CKLW. He also jocked country on CKLW-FM as "Gentleman Jim".
Yep. In fact, Lee was at KHJ twice---briefly in '72, before going to CKLW, and then again in 1977-80, having gone from CKLW to WOR-FM to KDAY and to KCBQ in between.
Lee participated either here or at the old Radio-Info, but I can't recall his screen name. If it was here, there are very likely posts from him still available.
Hmmmm. I've been thinking about this for the past 24 hours. I feel as if I need to reply, but I'd like to make sure my thoughts are very organized first. We agree on some things here, and we disagree on some others. I'd like to ask the mods to keep this thread open for a little while longer and not close off the comments. Thank you.
Some folks referred to Jim Lange as "Gentleman Jim" also, here on the West Coast.
Jim Lange's radio career tends to get overlooked because of his TV career---hosting "The Dating Game". But he spent 30 years working almost exclusively for Gene Autry, twice at KSFO and twice at KMPC, before finishing up his career with great work at KFRC during its "Magic 61" days and a couple attempted revivals of KABL. Jim was smoothness personified. Here's an hour or so from shortly after his return to KSFO from his first tour at KMPC:
Jim Lange On 560 KSFO (July 1, 1971) | Bay Area Radio Museum
Sometimes people even called him "Jimbo" !
Absolutely "smoothness personified" ! I have many favorites, but in my humble opinion, Mr. Lange was to MOR what Sam Riddle was to Top 40...it just doesn't get any better than this!
Hi Daryl, the Sie Holliday that I'm thinking of actually was a prominent part of KRLA's history, from being part of Emperor (Bob) Hudson's skits to actively participating with the station's "Credibility Gap" news programming. She eventually did morning drive until KRLA went completely automated in 1976. Also, I recall she was the voice of the "Oidar Wavelength," a syndicated offering from the mid-seventies (David's World Radio History site has a copy of the Billboard article describing the show). Are we thinking of different person? Thanks.
Hi Ayoda. It's the same Sie Holliday. I'm talking about her early career way back in circa 1962 when KRLA Program Director Jim Washburne scheduled her in the 6-midnight slot on Sunday nights. Yes, later on in the late 60's and going forward, she was given more air time. Thank you, from Daryl
Hi Ayoda. 🙂 It's the same Sie Holliday. I'm talking about her early career way back in circa 1962 when KRLA Program Director Jim Washburne scheduled her in the 6-midnight slot on Sunday nights. When I visited at KRLA during those years, she was always there, working in the offices and receiving visitors, record promoters, recording artists, etc. in the lobby. She was very pleasant and always greeted the teenagers. Yes, later on in the late 60's and going forward, she was given more air time. - Daryl
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This is a great thread because I have often wondered what a Program Director does versus what a Music Director does. I'm not reading (or I missed) what a Program Director does. Can you explain?
The timing thing back in the day is interesting stuff to me too. A few years ago, I oversaw Master Control in a cable television station. My team did the playlist in the automation system, and also handled some live events, and made sure everything fit timing-wise. They did a great job and my hat was always off to them. Thus my interest in how radio stations did it back in the day as well as how they do it now.
As for PD vs. MD, I always had the impression that the PD defined the theme of the station if you will. When the station would play news, and for how long, how long the DJs could yak between music (usually three songs back to back and then the DJs come on but what do they yak about? PD defined?), how long the commercial breaks could be (though that was probably influenced by finance and marketing too), etc. I realize that comparing 2022 to the 60s, 70s and 80s (for example) is not apples and oranges but I am pretty fascinated by how it worked then and works now.
The timing thing back in the day is interesting stuff to me too. A few years ago, I oversaw Master Control in a cable television station. My team did the playlist in the automation system, and also handled some live events, and made sure everything fit timing-wise. They did a great job and my hat was always off to them. Thus my interest in how radio stations did it back in the day as well as how they do it now.
As for PD vs. MD, I always had the impression that the PD defined the theme of the station if you will. When the station would play news, and for how long, how long the DJs could yak between music (usually three songs back to back and then the DJs come on but what do they yak about? PD defined?), how long the commercial breaks could be (though that was probably influenced by finance and marketing too), etc. I realize that comparing 2022 to the 60s, 70s and 80s (for example) is not apples and oranges but I am pretty fascinated by how it worked then and works now.
It depends on the station. If you work for a large group (and this was the case in the 60s as well as now), there was likely a group PD who oversaw company program strategy. In that case, your job was executing the strategy, not defining it. Even if you work for a single station owner, that owner might want to be the one defining the strategy, and once again, the PD is merely the one who carries it out. He handles staffing and schedules, the nuts & bolts operations of the station. Then again, there's an entirely new approach to what a PD does when he's called a Brand Manager.
Sixeye:
Final paragraph of the opening post in this thread:
“PDs were in charge of format clocks, contests and hiring and firing, though most station managers had veto power over money and personnel issues.”
Plus anything else Big A mentioned in the post above.
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