NY gets a new Exband AM

[xmradiopro]

I was wondering the same thing...i live in Howard Beach where the JFK comes in pretty good on 1700AM...will i be able to hear WRCR good when they move to 1700 AM ? When can we expect testing ?

TIS is a secondary service. They either accept what interference they get or file for a change in facilities.

 

[xmradiopro]

I don't think WRCR signal even with 10,000 Watts will reach Canada in the daytime. Plus at night WRCR will only bne 1000 Watts.

Is there any 1690 close in Canada for WRCR to interfere?

 

[ContinuousWave]

1000 watts at 1700/night is SW more than MW..it will reach Canada with that...check out the two Texas 1700s...Dallas and Brownsville...they cover VERY well at night thanks to skywave...The Brownsville signal is 8800 watts day and 880 night because of Mexico right next door, yet it is heard well up the Gulf Coast over 400 miles away at night..and more..

 

[MarioMania]

So when will 1700 KHz go on the air or are they waiting for the CRTC to respond?

 

[ContinuousWave]

So when will 1700 KHz go on the air or are they waiting for the CRTC to respond?

Well, first they have to build it Which they can without Canada's approval BUT if Canada balks at the CP, they could be SOL...(unlikely)..After they build the station, then program testing can begin...to test the transmitter into the antenna, etc..after they do the tests, then they would file for a License to Cover...(all provided Canada has not objected)...Since this looks like a new site with a new tower, it may take a while depending on weather, etc.

 

[DavidEduardo]

I don't think WRCR signal even with 10,000 Watts will reach Canada in the daytime. Plus at night WRCR will only bne 1000 Watts.

When there were no X-Band stations in the US, I was able to hear 1 kw Argentine X-Banders with some regularity. Hearing stations on that part of the band at 500 to 1000 miles is a snap.

 

[DavidEduardo]

I once worked at a high-end station, on 1580, a daytimer, at which the CE said that if the station went full-time, it could not send more than 7 watts toward Canada. But you're right ; I didn't know the treaty went back to the Forties. I don't even go back to the Forties.

That was because 1580 is and was a clear channel shared with Mexico. 1580 in the east belonged to the Chicouitimi PQ station and was severely protected.

 

[MarioMania]

So on the High Channel like 1700 KHz goes far

Like XEPE has 10k at night, I can hear it clear

 

[mimo]

I don't think the CRTC will even care about this station. There is no Canadian at 1700, nor will there ever be. The signal will definitely hit Canada, and hit it well, but in Toronto and Montreal, the local 1690s in those cities will blow 1700 off the dial. The station will be a non factor when it comes to interference. From Ottawa, I've been able to hear Brownsville, Des Moines and Birmingham (or whatever town WEUP is from). If there's a need for approval form Canada, it's probably already happened.

 

[Ai4i]

Graveyard channel stations were authorized to increase their nighttime powers from 250w to 1kw because their noise levels would increase by 6db, but their interference-free contours would remain the same because their transmitted signals would balance those increased noise levels, however all those stations would be 6db stronger everywhere within their interference-free contours.

All X-band stations should be able to transmit 10kw full time for the same reason.

 

[xmradiopro]

How long does it usually take a station to build it ?

Well, first they have to build it Which they can without Canada's approval BUT if Canada balks at the CP, they could be SOL...(unlikely)..After they build the station, then program testing can begin...to test the transmitter into the antenna, etc..after they do the tests, then they would file for a License to Cover...(all provided Canada has not objected)...Since this looks like a new site with a new tower, it may take a while depending on weather, etc.

 

[DavidEduardo]

How long does it usually take a station to build it ?

That question has no answer. Once the CP to build is granted, then the station has to firm up a land purchase or lease, get all the permits to build, ranging from city building permits to environmental impact statements. If there is a NIMBY group or some environmental issue, that could take years to resolve.

Keep in mind that some permits are sequential, meaning you have to have other permits before you can apply for certain ones. So you can not apply for all of them at once.

If everything goes relatively smoothly, it could take 6 months to a year in todays over-regulated environment.

 

[Gregg.]

Actually I worked at this station, first while in college as a parttimer and after graduation as a fulltimer. That was several owners ago. Right now, it's a Rockland County-based full service station. Talk/News show in mornings, chatting with mayors and other local political figures. The rest of the day is automated AC unless they can sell a 30 or 60 minute block to local businesses, hospitals, etc. I think they have a live DJ in afternoons.

The signal is pretty bad. It's all directional to the west of the transmitter location in Nanuet, near the NYS Thruway and Palisades Parkway. There's another 1300, WAVZ in New Haven that has to be protected and one in Baltimore as well, originally WFBR, now WJZ. At night, when the transmitter would go off, we'd hear either of those stations, sometimes like a local. People would call after sunset and ask why we're doing Baltimore news. Today the station is 24 hours, but at flashlight power at night.

The three towers, all in a row, are located on some vacant land behind a Nanuet shopping plaza, so I suppose they could reuse those? Or repurpose the land for the new tower(s). I suppose X-band stations are not directional and need only one tower?

I'm sure the owners are telling everyone the move to 10,000 watts at 1700 will give WRCR the ability to cover Rockland County much better. Who knows? Maybe they're sincere. But the minute the new station goes on the air and can cover parts of NYC, North Jersey and other counties in the Hudson Valley, you know they're going to go with an ethnic or religious format that will target all those new potential listeners. The only other commercial station in Rockland County, WRKL 910 New City, had been a local news-talk-AC station for decades. Then one day the owners, who were getting older, got a good offer from a Polish radio organization. They sold and the station has been Polish ever since. Rockland doesn't have much of a Polish population. I'm sure the station was bought because it can be heard in other parts of the NYC metro. It is a near-total simulcast of a Polish station in Chicago.

 

[ContinuousWave]

The new site looks to be west of the current site iirc..the current towers will not be reused in all likelyhood (currently the 1300 signal has a STA to operate on one tower omni 125w day and 20w night) Yes, Xband stations for the most part are omni directional...the 10kw day will cover much better than the 1300 signal..

 

[xmradiopro]

Here's is the actual FCC data on WRCR 1700 AM

WRCR NY RAMAPO USA Daytime Licensee: ALEXANDER BROADCASTING, INC. 1700 kHz Construction Permit Domestic Station Class: B Region 2 Station Class (corresponds to W. Hemisphere): B Coordination Status: Canada: - Mexico: - Region 2: - File No: BMJP-20140721ADC Facility ID No.: 64556 CDBS Application ID No.: 1647005 41° 05' 46.00" N Latitude Power: 10.0 kilowatts (kW) Daytime 74 ° 00' 17.00" W Longitude (NAD 27) Change of Community of License from SPRING VALLEY, NY to RAMAPO, NY ND2 - Non-directional Antenna: Different constants day and night RMS Standard: 0.00 mV/m at 1 kilometer RMS Theoretical: 324.98 mV/m at 1 kilometer 1 tower CDBS Ant. System ID: 124912 Tower information:
Tower
No. Field
Ratio Phase
(deg) Spacing
(deg) Orientation
(degrees) Electrical
Height (deg) Twr
Ref. -No Top Loaded or Sectionalized Tower(s)- Antenna Structure
Registration Number
(#0) A B C D
1 1.000 0.00 0.00 0.00 119.77 0 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/link2asrn?asrn=

WRCR NY RAMAPO USA Nighttime Licensee: ALEXANDER BROADCASTING, INC. 1700 kHz Construction Permit Domestic Station Class: B Region 2 Station Class (corresponds to W. Hemisphere): B Coordination Status: Canada: - Mexico: - Region 2: - File No: BMJP-20140721ADC Facility ID No.: 64556 CDBS Application ID No.: 1647005 41° 05' 46.00" N Latitude Power: 1.0 kilowatts (kW) Nighttime 74 ° 00' 17.00" W Longitude (NAD 27) Change of Community of License from SPRING VALLEY, NY to RAMAPO, NY ND2 - Non-directional Antenna: Different constants day and night RMS Standard: 0.00 mV/m at 1 kilometer RMS Theoretical: 324.98 mV/m at 1 kilometer 1 tower CDBS Ant. System ID: 124913 Tower information:
Tower
No. Field
Ratio Phase
(deg) Spacing
(deg) Orientation
(degrees) Electrical
Height (deg) Twr
Ref. -No Top Loaded or Sectionalized Tower(s)- Antenna Structure
Registration Number
(#0) A B C D
1 1.000 0.00 0.00 0.00 119.77 0 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/link2asrn?asrn=
Approximate Sunrise & Sunset Times => Eastern time zone

 

[xmradiopro]

Also to note there is a radio station on 1690 AM in Montreal that probably needs approval from the CRTC to allow WRCR to broadcast at 10,000 Watts at 1700 AM.

 

[ContinuousWave]

Graveyard channel stations were authorized to increase their nighttime powers from 250w to 1kw because their noise levels would increase by 6db, but their interference-free contours would remain the same because their transmitted signals would balance those increased noise levels, however all those stations would be 6db stronger everywhere within their interference-free contours.

All X-band stations should be able to transmit 10kw full time for the same reason.

Not true.....when the Class Cs were allowed to go 1 kw full time, a local 1450 lost audience 25 miles south because a co channel 100 miles to the east now overpowers it; where 250 watts had been listenable before! AM is a weak signal mode....(which is why aircraft service still uses it..you can hear a weaker signal under a stronger signal)..increasing power just does not solve the problem

 

[mimo]

Also to note there is a radio station on 1690 AM in Montreal that probably needs approval from the CRTC to allow WRCR to broadcast at 10,000 Watts at 1700 AM.

The ten thousand watts are daytime only. The amount of signal that would reach Montreal during that period of time would not be enough to hamper reception of CJLO. After dark it would be a non factor as both would be 1000 watts.

 

[Ai4i]

...when the Class Cs were allowed to go 1 kw full time, a local 1450 lost audience 25 miles south because a co channel 100 miles to the east now overpowers it; where 250 watts had been listenable before!

Graveyards were called class D's. Regionals were called C's. If a station at a certain distance is half a watt and a much closer station is also half a watt, and the closer one overpowers the farther one by 20db but then they both increase to one megawatt, one million watts, the closer one will overpower the farther one by the same 20db at the exact same place, but they will each be 63db stronger within their own respective areas.

Absolutely true about the VHF aircraft Com band.

 

[mimo]

One thing we're leaving out is ground conductivity, which is not very good in this part of the continent. A 10,000 watt station at that part of the dial in that part of the country wouldn't get the mileage that KBGG Des Moines gets. There would probably be some light winter daytime skip that could be heard in Ottawa on the right receiver...but wouldn't be noticeable on any receiver in Montreal. While all X banders can be allowed to broadcast up to 10,000 watts, not all of them do..not even in the United States, and in Canada, only 2 of the 7 licensed use more than 1000. Both stations are in Toronto and are CHHA 1610 with 6250 watts and CHTO 1690 with 3000. CHTO makes really hurts CJLO's signal after dark here in Ottawa as they are the dominant station, but in the Montreal area, CJLO has no problem against them and didn't object to the power increase sought by CHTO a couple of years ago. During the daytime in Ottawa, CJLO is barely there and fades in and out, during critical hours, CJLO becomes very listenable until CHTO takes over the frequency. At night you might get periods of time with CJLO dominating, but that depends on conditions.