LPFM's to be regulated by states, not the FCC?

[WCWalker]

Low Power AM is actually a very good idea. There are frequencies that could be used in many
large cities. Also, good community radio could bring some life back to the AM band.

Commercial stations can be very expensive to buy and operate. There is no cost in filing for
a non-commercial license from the FCC. Non commercial is tax exempt and has no FCC fees.
They use a volunteer staff and go to the listeners for donations.

Remember the golden rule. He who has the gold makes the rules. In other words, he who
pays for the station keeps it on the air. If you are commercial, then you must please the
business people. If you are non-commercial, your listeners donate. If you want to do your
own thing-reach into your own wallet.

Success in broadcasting has come to a few of us. But, when Lady Luck smiles on you, don't
get the big ego. Don't give yourself all the credit. Most of it really was just the grace of God.

LPAM has been proposed to the FCC as far back as '05. This article in Radio Magazine makes reference to one such proposal:

"Existing broadcasters would be ineligible to apply, Local residence, at least initially, would be required. Power levels of up to 100W, 24 hours per day are proposed,Interference calculations would be made under existing AM allocation rules, but with a 100W application treated as one for 1kW."

http://radiomagonline.com/fcc/radio_fcc_considers_lowpower/

http://www.recnet.com/fcc/RM-11287_petition.pdf

There was another proposal for LPAM which closely mirrored the specs for TIS stations. The only difference was the programming, ownership requirements and status of such stations. As much as such a service is needed (and I believe there is a need) it has still to come up on the FCC docket after all these years.

c5

The proposal the Radio Mag article is talking about actually got its start in 2003 when I and a few other people including Fred Baumgartner of Colorado (Engineer) and Don Schellhardt of Connecticut came up with the idea to create a commercial LPAM service. This was the result of LPFM ultimately becoming non commercial service with no possibility of extending commercial service to the existing concept.

The first formal LPAM proposal to appear before the FCC (to the worst of my knowledge at least) was crafted by Chris DiPaola of Westerly, RI around a decade earlier. His plan was simple. Dole out licenses for 10 watt stations that would operate under the same technical guidelines as TIS. Chris wanted a commercial LPAM service and outlined that in his Petition. It never saw the light of day though and the FCC filed it away in their circular file.

 

[Timewarp]

Dutch,
Why. Why would you want to do this? You own a commercial radio station. You belong to the NAB.
The Indiana Broadcasters Association just awarded you- Station Of The Year.

http://www.wmrsradio.com/

Maybe we should read the history of the low power movement starting with your pirate station in
Bloomington, IN
[url]]http://www.wmrsradio.com/

Maybe we should read the history of the low power movement starting with your pirate station in
Bloomington, IN
http://books.google.com/books?id=HorHFYH0NsoC&pg=PA240&dq=Bruce+quinn+bloomington&ei=Xbd0S_3MMYzKMLWo3boE&client=firefox-a&cd=3&hl=en#v=onepage&q=Bruce%20quinn%20bloomington&f=false

 

[Flying-Dutchman]

I wanted others to have the same opportunity to own radio stations. This is why I filed
Petitions For Rulemaking and helped others in obtaining FCC licenses. Many have asked
me why would I do this?

I support William Walker's efforts to establish LPAM. I think this might bring some new
life to AM.

 

[Carmine5]

I think the FCC will allow LPAM. It will take some time. It took almost
20 years to get LPFM going again after it was discontinued by the
Commission in the 1970s.

20 years for LPFM?! If that's the case, the proposal for an LPAM service is still in its infancy. William is right, it was in '03 when the proposal he was involved with was first put forward.

One of the proposals recommended confining LPAM to the expanded band. However with the X-band now cluttered with TIS stations in many areas more flexibility on channel placement is needed--much like the LPFM service. Where I am there is no room on the expanded band, but there are a couple of open channels further down.

c5

 

[TheBigA]

I think this might bring some new life to AM.

Sorry, but I don't get it. How do more poorly funded stations with less coverage bring new life to AM?

They're better off buying a Class C. Then people could hear it.

 

[WCWalker]

I think this might bring some new life to AM.

Sorry, but I don't get it. How do more poorly funded stations with less coverage bring new life to AM?

They're better off buying a Class C. Then people could hear it.

Commercial stations are not likely to be poorly funded. Anyone undertaking a business endeavor such as this is likely to make sure the numbers work before proceeding. Unlike LPFM which attracts people that are part of a non profit and also a lot of people that want nothing more than a radio station to use like Mr. Microphone, a commercial LPAM will be able to program a format which actually serves the community with local news, talk and information. Most of the LPFM stations I've heard are nothing more than music formats with little or no information or talk and news that can benefit the listeners.

Programming is the key to success. There are Part 15 AM stations that are making money despite the limited coverage area. If you pick the right niche format and locate it properly then it can be done successfully. A single Hamilton Rangemaster with a mile to mile and a half radius could reach over 20,000 potential listeners in some metro areas and cities.

 

[TheBigA]

a commercial LPAM will be able to program a format which actually serves the community with local news, talk and information.

But as I said, with so many commercial AMs going by the wayside, why not simply change a few rules about existing Class Cs and Ds, rather than creating even more fly-swatters. I think you're a bit overly optimistic that a station with limited power will be able to create great local programming when so many high power AMs right now can't pay for basic operations. More stations doesn't equal better stations.

 

[WCWalker]

The costs associated with running even the tiniest licensed AM is dramatically higher than the costs of a Part 15 AM or even a licensed LPAM with a single, non directional stick at perhaps 30 feet. And electric costs of a 10 watt or even 100 watt LPAM will be dramatically lower than that of a 1 kw etc.

The primary reason so many of these licensed stations are going under is because of the changes in management philosophy. Once these companies started to use satellite programming to replace local hosts, the game changed and people tuned out. In rural America you can still find a lot of AM stations that are either holding their own or doing fine because the owners are not mortgaged out on the land and building and they still understand that the listening public wants to hear some live and local voices, not just a voice from a distant city.

Here is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Live and local for the entire broadcast day! And they've been doing it for years. It can and will work if the proper investment in time and money is made.

http://am1340went.com/

 

[WCWalker]

I've been listening to the following Part 15 AM via the net this morning and noted they have some advertisers.

http://www.wpaulive.com/

A couple of nights ago when I tuned in they did an hour long talk show about the Haiti Earthquake relief effort. The host of the program was interviewing a young lady who had just been down and there working with the people in the relief effort.

More proof that commercial Part 15 AM can work, even in a small town.

 

[gr8oldies]

I think my hesitation would be my experience in Ohio with 34 night watts. We'd sell sports and have listeners and advertisers complaining they couldn't hear the games. I would joke that at night we were number one in the Upper Valley Mall parking lot

 

[WCWalker]

A sales rep should clearly outline the coverage area of a station to a potential sponsor before trying to sell spots. People will always complain about the coverage area of a station. When I was in Medina, NY I can recall people complaining that they could not listen to the 1 kw AM in Batavia at night (20 miles away) or the 1 kw AM in Lockport (16 miles away). AM has limitations associated with skywave and ground conductivity.

 

[TheBigA]

Once these companies started to use satellite programming to replace local hosts, the game changed and people tuned out.

Sorry, but that's not exactly how it happened. I was there at a small locally programmed AM station as FM began to take over, and there was nothing we could do, in terms of programming, to keep the audiences from leaving. We also owned an FM, and we spent more money on the AM staff. The FM staff was mainly recent college grads. And the audience shifted without regard to what we did on the air. The station stuck to live & local staff on the AM until last year when they simply couldn't sustain it any more.

The only thing that saved AM from total collapse in the early 90s was satellite delivered conservative talk. And lots of people tuned in for that. But I really think that ride is about to end.

 

[WCWalker]

Once these companies started to use satellite programming to replace local hosts, the game changed and people tuned out.

Sorry, but that's not exactly how it happened. I was there at a small locally programmed AM station as FM began to take over, and there was nothing we could do, in terms of programming, to keep the audiences from leaving. We also owned an FM, and we spent more money on the AM staff. The FM staff was mainly recent college grads. And the audience shifted without regard to what we did on the air. The station stuck to live & local staff on the AM until last year when they simply couldn't sustain it any more.

The only thing that saved AM from total collapse in the early 90s was satellite delivered conservative talk. And lots of people tuned in for that. But I really think that ride is about to end.

In some cases that is true but not entirely. There are still a lot of music oriented, full service formatted AM stations in rural America and small cities that have not changed their format in decades.

Yes, Conservative talk did help breathe some life into a lot of AM stations but now I think people have grown weary of a lot of it. And Liberal talk has never been very popular except in a few select markets.

 

[TheBigA]

You may be right, but because they haven't changed their format in ndecades, their audience has aged tremendously. I predict those stations are in for some big changes very soon. Not because they replaced local hosts with satellite, but because they didn't update their image.

Which is why I say there will be hundreds of Class C AMs available very cheap very soon. IF there really is an interest on the part of people to put locally-based community radio on the air, they will have no shortage of outlets even without adding LPAM.

 

[Flying-Dutchman]

In many cases, the real estate of an AM is worth more than the station. So, the towers get
taken down and the land sold. Next, the license gets donated or sold real cheap. The only way
these stations come back is with an STA from the FCC for low power.

The reason LPAM is a good idea is because it can give new people a chance to start a station in
places where they could not find an open channel for FM.

There are many who have no voice or any station that cares about them.

 

[gr8oldies]

There's a broker trolling for buyers all over R-I. Problem with LPAM is interference; our generation would put up with "DXing" the hits or the game; this generation won't. I think AM needs less stations and better coverage for those whose markets outgrew the signal from the 1940s

 

[Flying-Dutchman]

There are about 4 choices for most of us on AM. This is because programmers gave
up on the band long ago. The choices are sports, religion, foreign language, and Rush.
Nothing against this being on. But, the AM choices are limited.

I spoke with some top engineers about LPAM. Indeed, they agreed with Gr8oldies that 100
watts nighttime would cause interference. In 1980, I had a 100 watt pirate station on AM.
100 watts from Bloomington, Indiana was heard quite well in Springfield, Ohio. It was also
heard by DXers in many states. So, I know what 100 watts can do.

So, I asked the experts. What power can LPAM use and not bounce and not cause interference?
The answer from most was 25 watts or less. OK, Let's give them 25 watts. How bout that.

I too loved DXing. I have picked up every state in the USA. Not all my DXing was done on AM.
Some states I caught were on FM or TV.

 

[gr8oldies]

I was referring not only to interference being caused but received by the LPAM, and I doubt modern day listeners would put up with it. I remember being at 34 watt night power during a remote from a grill type restaurant. We're at the studio and there's a loud Spanish lang station underneath. Sounded like we'd moved the remote to a Mexican restaurant.

 

[Flying-Dutchman]

Gr8oldies,
I must agree, the next generation is a digital generation. Audio must be perfect for them to listen.
AM is a leftover for my generation. AM must serve us. I know many of the next generation who have
never tuned to AM. But, AM can be used to entertain us. There needs to be something on we want
to hear.

I have zero interest in building an LPAM for me. But, I think it is in the public interest for people to
be able to do this. I lived in England some years ago. We had LPAM there. It was a good thing.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Gr8oldies and Flying Dutchman- you are both coming up with some good ideas and view points. We have been in a mode where both providers and consumers of broadcast audio were just interested in "making a transaction" and were seeking a frequency (and band) that would allow the transaction to happen. Transaction = I broadcast, you listen.

The question that seems to have kicked off this whole thread, I interpret as follows: Since the Federal Government is bogged down dealing with the catching of larger fish, and the Federal Government is in the hands of political powers that some disagree with, Why can't we just let local government, state government, deal with these low powered gadgets.... down where the affected local people can influence local government.

If (a very questionable if in my mind) it is deemed possible to let both Federal government and local or state government manage and regulate spectrum, do we make that division simply on power level of the transmitting device? I see the two of you having slightly different views.... (O. K. maybe very significant differences!) on what the program CONTENT of these smaller stations might be. We have a banking system where large banks and banks that engage in INVESTMENT banking are (supposedly) regulated by the Feds, and hometown style banks dealing in RETAIL banking can operate under a state charter. It is not just the size of the banks that determines who will charter them, but in broadcaster terms, it is the PROGRAMMING of the bank that controls that decision.

Should stations that broadcast music to the masses be Federally regulated while stations that interview county agents, give out recipes and obits be State regulated?