FCC Chairman Calls on Apple to Turn on FM Reception in iPhones

[RadioFan2J3]

I have a V20 that is locked on AT&T and the FM tuner is fully functional albeit listenable only when there is something plugged into the headphone jack.

Thank you for that. As I noted, we never thought about checking the V20 for FM reception prior to unlocking it.

 

[xmtrland]

The FCC regulates phone devices, so obviously this would be spelled out in the rule mandating activation. I suggest an app on the screen, along side such other apps as camera, weather, and maps. Once its on the screen, it'll be very obvious to users.

OK so what are they going to do when they see the nifty app for the FM radio but it won't work unless you have headphones plugged in. Is the FCC going to mandate that all people need to carry headphones with them if the radio app is activated? I guess that if they know the bad weather is on the way they could carry headphones with them. But at that point they could pick up a Battery with a Radio or a crank radio. I have an FM radio in my smart phone and it's unlocked but does no good if the headphones are not plugged in. It even says so when I open the app.

Instead of an app telling me to get ready by making sure I have Earbuds before the Hurricane I think it would be better to have a list of things I would need appear on the phone, Batteries, flashlight, food, water, an AM/FM crank radio, don't run the generator inside, local shelter information. Make the information stored on the phone so they have access to basic info if they lose cell service.

 

[TheBigA]

OK so what are they going to do when they see the nifty app for the FM radio but it won't work unless you have headphones plugged in.

I think you're looking for excuses here. The chip exists in these phones, and the manufacturers have been refusing to activate them in this country. This is a game they're playing with the public, using their monopoly power as the largest manufacturer of cell phones. The point isn't whether or not the public knows how to use an app. The point is giving consumers access to something they've already paid for. If the public chooses not to use it (as I do with half of the apps in my phone), that's fine. No one is forcing them to use it. But right now, manufacturers and telco companies are forcing them NOT to use it.

 

[RadioFan2J3]

OK so what are they going to do when they see the nifty app for the FM radio but it won't work unless you have headphones plugged in.

As I mentioned earlier, we checked three cell phones, all have FM broadcast band reception capabilities and the headphone cable is the antenna. I just ran an experiment with the Nokia N95 and it appears to require a headphone cable, but it does output audio to the handset speaker if the headphone option is not selected. Even if using the handset speaker, if the headphone cable plug is removed, the radio function stops. It does not get noisy, from no antenna but drops out of the radio mode.

Is the FCC going to mandate that all people need to carry headphones with them if the radio app is activated?

If the headphone cable is required as the antenna for all earlier units, unless there is a major recall of all older cells phones, it doesn't appear that an FCC edict is going to make any difference.

I guess that if they know the bad weather is on the way they could carry headphones with them. But at that point they could pick up a Battery with a Radio or a crank radio. I have an FM radio in my smart phone and it's unlocked but does no good if the headphones are not plugged in. It even says so when I open the app.

Instead of an app telling me to get ready by making sure I have Earbuds before the Hurricane I think it would be better to have a list of things I would need appear on the phone, Batteries, flashlight, food, water, an AM/FM crank radio, don't run the generator inside, local shelter information. Make the information stored on the phone so they have access to basic info if they lose cell service.

Yes, it would appear that we'd better make our own preparations rather than rely on the FCC to mandate something of this nature, me thinks.

 

[RadioFan2J3]

I think you're looking for excuses here. The chip exists in these phones, and the manufacturers have been refusing to activate them in this country. This is a game they're playing with the public, using their monopoly power as the largest manufacturer of cell phones. The point isn't whether or not the public knows how to use an app. The point is giving consumers access to something they've already paid for. If the public chooses not to use it (as I do with half of the apps in my phone), that's fine. No one is forcing them to use it. But right now, manufacturers and telco companies are forcing them NOT to use it.

As TXRAdioJunkie and I have already noted, the LG V20, or at least our two US sold units, appear to have FM broadcast band reception capabilities already built in and operational.

One point which seems to not be settled is the conflict between your concern that the FM band chip is already in the later model iPhones, yet Apple seems to claim iPhone 7 and iPhone 8 models do not have FM radio chips.

Does this mean Apple is really lying about the capabilities of the iPhone 7 and iPhone 8 series units, and they really do have FM broadcast band capabilities in the US marketed units, or if FM reception is a requirement in China, are the Chinese market units truly different hardware units?

I suppose some adventurous person with about $3K could tell us, by flying to Beijing, buying an iPhone 7 or iPhone 8 and testing it first hand.

I have no contacts in China, I did ask two contacts who have experience with iPhones sold outside the United States, one thought that Apple had not enabled the FM reception, the other thought that the iPhones sold in his country did not have that capability.

 

[TheBigA]

One point which seems to not be settled is the conflict between your concern that the FM band chip is already in the later model iPhones, yet Apple seems to claim iPhone 7 and iPhone 8 models do not have FM radio chips.

To clarify, this is not MY concern. As you can see in the subject line, the concern was expressed by the Chairman of the FCC. A few days later, Apple responded to him saying the chip is not in the 7 or 8. That doesn't change the fact that if the FCC mandates FM chip activation, Apple will need to change their model 8 in order to meet their requirement.

I am aware that certain Samsung models allow FM chip activation, and certain telco companies, such as Sprint, are co-operating with the radio industry. However they are getting paid to do this. This is not a voluntary co-operation. It's a business relationship, similar to what exists between Sirius and car companies. From what I understand, Apple hasn't been interested in such a business relationship.

 

[RadioFan2J3]

To clarify, this is not MY concern.

Perhaps I was being tactful. Your actual comment was "The chip exists in these phones..."

That would perhaps suggest more a claim. But that is really missing the point.

As you can see in the subject line, the concern was expressed by the Chairman of the FCC. A few days later, Apple responded to him saying the chip is not in the 7 or 8. That doesn't change the fact that if the FCC mandates FM chip activation, Apple will need to change their model 8 in order to meet their requirement.

Again, Apple appears to be claiming the iPhone 7 or 8 does not have the capabilities to receive the FM broadcast band. You suggest the hardware is actually in the phone. I don't know whether Apple is correct or lying, but the point here is if the iPhone 8 (or 7) is not capable of receiving FM broadcasts, the hardware is not in the unit, then to add that feature would require Apple to replace or modify the electronics in every phone iPhone 7 and iPhone 8 in the United States.

It could happen, that is, the FCC mandates that Apple take that step, but frankly, I'd be surprised if it happened. I am not in the market for an Apple iPhone, but looking at ads, looks like the iPhone 8 is already on the market and available, so if the FCC mandates the FM reception and that capability is not in the phone, again, it would require a recall of every phone, series 7 and 8, Apple has imported.

I am aware that certain Samsung models allow FM chip activation, and certain telco companies, such as Sprint, are co-operating with the radio industry. However they are getting paid to do this. This is not a voluntary co-operation. It's a business relationship, similar to what exists between Sirius and car companies. From what I understand, Apple hasn't been interested in such a business relationship.

The Apple relationship may be as you state, that Apple has zero interest, from a financial standpoint, in allowing iPhone 7 and 8 series phones from accessing the FM broadcast band. That may be true, but if Apple is correct in their claim that the hardware in the phones is not capable of receiving FM broadcasts, then, guess they made that financial decision in the engineering phase of the units, and it may be impractical to near impossible to force those cell phones to receive FM broadcasts, short of replacing or modifying the hardware.

I cannot tell you anything definitive about my relationship with T-Mobile, but as best as I can figure, T-Mobile has never asked us anything about either activating or deactivating the FM broadcast reception capabilities of our three phones. I remember having no option when we signed up for T-Mobile service. Granted, it might very well be that T-Mobile doesn't care and simply defaults to leaving the FM function activated when a T-Mobile SIM is installed in a GSM capable phone.

I did find something interesting a few minutes ago, at least in regards to my Nokia N95. If I remove the SIM, the cell phone will not operate in the FM reception mode. I've not dug into the manual to see if I have some workaround and perhaps one of my next experiments is to go to a location where I have zero T-Mobile service and see if the FM mode still operates.

 

[TheBigA]

Perhaps I was being tactful. Your actual comment was "The chip exists in these phones..."

Once again, I refer you to the OP, and the article linked there has the following quote from the FCC Chairman: "That’s why I am asking Apple to activate the FM chips that are in its iPhones." So this is not coming from me. Apple responded to the Chairman by saying the chip is not in the 7 or 8. TTBOMK He hasn't responded to that yet. However, it doesn't matter. If the FCC mandates FM chip activation, those chips will have to be activated.

Once again, to be clear about this, all telephonic devices are subject to FCC regulation. This is not simply about the financial consideration of the manufacturers. There have been numerous mandates made by federal agencies that were not in the financial interests of the regulated companies. Certainly the broadcasting industry doesn't feel certain ownership regulations are in the best interests of their companies. Adding LPFM was not in the best interest of the broadcasting industry. But those are the rules, and the broadcasting industry has learned to deal with them.

 

[joebtsflk1]

Apple: The Nanny Company. You must not stray from Our Universe. Technology not beneficial to Our Interest will be removed or made ineffectual. We will keep you happy and delighted in Our Products, and remember that Your God is a Jealous God and does not want you to question Our Authority by pining for anything outside Our Perfect Universe.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

It could happen, that is, the FCC mandates that Apple take that step, but frankly, I'd be surprised if it happened. I am not in the market for an Apple iPhone, but looking at ads, looks like the iPhone 8 is already on the market and available, so if the FCC mandates the FM reception and that capability is not in the phone, again, it would require a recall of every phone, series 7 and 8, Apple has imported.

No, it would require the addition of an FM receiver to the iPhone 9 or whatever the future revision would be called. And it has a 2% chance of happening.
Requiring a recall to enact a regulation retroactively would be unprecedented, arbitrary, and capricious. That has a 0% chance of happening.

 

[RadioFan2J3]

Once again, I refer you to the OP, and the article linked there has the following quote from the FCC Chairman: "That’s why I am asking Apple to activate the FM chips that are in its iPhones." So this is not coming from me. Apple responded to the Chairman by saying the chip is not in the 7 or 8. TTBOMK He hasn't responded to that yet.

Fair enough. It will be interesting to see how Apple responds.

However, it doesn't matter. If the FCC mandates FM chip activation, those chips will have to be activated.

But that assumes the FM chip is actually installed. Apple appears to claim there is no FM band reception chip in the iPhones 7 or 8, thus the function cannot be activated, short of either reworking the board in each model 7 or 8 or replacing the electronics.

I don't know if the electronics in the current cell phone equipment base are capable of adding FM band reception by an activation process or it actually requires a hardware addition to the phone. Granted, with software defined radios, seems it would be a minor reprogramming function. I don't have any idea. Guess we shall see.

Once again, to be clear about this, all telephonic devices are subject to FCC regulation. This is not simply about the financial consideration of the manufacturers. There have been numerous mandates made by federal agencies that were not in the financial interests of the regulated companies. Certainly the broadcasting industry doesn't feel certain ownership regulations are in the best interests of their companies. Adding LPFM was not in the best interest of the broadcasting industry. But those are the rules, and the broadcasting industry has learned to deal with them.

I'd suggest the LPFM is not a parallel but I understand. LPFM has not mandated, to my understanding, any recalls of consumer market equipment.

 

[TheBigA]

But that assumes the FM chip is actually installed. Apple appears to claim there is no FM band reception chip in the iPhones 7 or 8, thus the function cannot be activated, short of either reworking the board in each model 7 or 8 or replacing the electronics.

There are hundreds of millions of working Apple iPhones with those chips that haven't been activated. What's their excuse for choosing not to activate the ones currently in service?

 

[joebtsflk1]

No existing TVs were recalled when it was mandated in 1961 that all TV sets sold in the US by 1964 have UHF tuners. It's facetious of anyone to suggest that smartphones without FM tuners might be subject to recall.

Watch the 1984 Apple Super Bowl ad and say with a straight face that Apple has NOT become Big Brother.

(And the threat to full power radio broadcasting posed by LPFM has been highly over rated. LPFM operators have proven themselves just as capable of shooting themselves in the foot as their full-power brethren.)

 

[RadioFan2J3]

There are hundreds of millions of working Apple iPhones with those chips that haven't been activated. What's their excuse for choosing not to activate the ones currently in service?

I really don't know. Is it a business decision, they make money from selling music? That's a possibility. There are always weird management decisions made which baffle the outside world, but apparently makes sense on the inside.

Do we know for sure these units imported to the United States are capable of FM broadcast band reception? I don't have an iPhone of any model, so I don't know what the earlier ones have in the way FM broadcast capabilities. Maybe you have first hand experience. I don't. Again, I can only tell you that our Nokia, Hauwei and LG V20 phones on T-Mobile have FM reception and we never asked for it to be activated. Again, the first two brand units were not purchased from T-Mobile and were unlocked from the get-go.


But we are chasing this round and round, aren't we?

The way I figure it, there are a few possibilities.

The Apple iPhone 7 and iPhone 8 models imported to the United States have zero FM broadcast band capability, Apple is telling us the truth and there is no activation process to be had and the units as manufactured cannot have that capability added easily.

Apple is lying their ass off and the iPhone 7 and iPhone 8 models imported to the United States have the option defeated, for whatever reason, by Apple and Apple refuses to allow the function to be activated or if a firmware update is required, they have made a corporate decision to not do it.

A third possibility is that it is at the option of the mobile service provider, but so far, there seems to be little indication than anyone in the United States has found they do have FM band reception with iPhone 7 and iPhone 8 models.

Bottom line, I suppose we will have to wait and see how the FCC reacts to Apple's claim. Again, it will be an interesting turn of events.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

The Apple iPhone 7 and iPhone 8 models imported to the United States have zero FM broadcast band capability, Apple is telling us the truth and there is no activation process to be had and the units as manufactured cannot have that capability added easily.

This is obviously the correct "possibility". The iPhone 7 removed the 3.5mm headphone jack, which provides the antenna for FM reception in most portable devices, previous generation iPhones included. No antenna = no reception, even if the chips on the circuit board are theoretically capable of tuning FM frequencies.

 

[wadio]

I have a Motorola phone with an FM chip.

It worked from day 1 with no special activation but it has an interesting flaw ... if the earbuds are unplugged you can't quit the app! Once you unplug the earbuds you're given only two choices: "play through the speaker anyway, even though there's no antenna," or "cancel" meaning the only remaining choice is to play through the speakers anyway without being able to exit.

My suspicion is that the designers of the app didn't think this through or maybe didn't even try using the app ... and that owners of the phone aren't using it either, hence they're not complaining.

I actually use the FM chip from time to time and would be less inclined to buy a phone without one, but I don't think the FCC should mandate it. They have more important issues to worry about. And as others have said there are probably better ways to prepare for disaster.

 

[Groove1670]

Even if they had a tuner chip in their phones, (which the IPhone 8 apparently doesn't), what typical user would care, let alone know how to use it? So in your thinking, Apple would be responsible for training people how to activate an FM tuner? Good luck with that.

Aside from the headphone issue. The can use the NextRadio app (free) to use the chip.

 

[TheBigA]

Aside from the headphone issue. The can use the NextRadio app (free) to use the chip.

My understanding is that doesn't work in Apple phones.

 

[Kelly A]

Aside from the headphone issue. The can use the NextRadio app (free) to use the chip.

The headphones provide the antenna (assuming there is) an FM tuner in the phone. As mentioned with the other brands of phones with a chip activated; no wired headphones= no antenna for the FM tuner to work. Even if you had an app to control the internal tuner, without some form of antenna several feet long, the tuner is useless.

As mentioned too: the IPhone 7 and 8 use Bluetooth(tm) for the headphone connection. No wires to act as an antenna.

This whole argument is about five years too late. Apple isn't going to task their developers to write and deliver OS changes to phones that are five years old or more, let alone to turn on some legacy form of media.

 

[TheBigA]

This whole argument is about five years too late.

To be honest, the argument began more than five years ago. Apple has clearly been seeking to avoid the issue, and purposely eliminated the headphone jack. No other phone maker has been so active in avoiding this issue than Apple.