Could Country Return To NYC Radio?

[DavidEduardo]

Those levels were down from a Spring of '92 level of 800,000. The format was obviously dying in '94 and that explains the change in format soon after.

The exact reason for the format change was an ownership change. The station was sold, became WKTU, went commercial free, and went from "worst to first." WKTU became the #1 radio station in the city.

Obviously, the multiple changes in ownership... from Westwood One to Broadcast Partners in '93 and then to Evergreen in '95 allowed the station to stagnate. But Evergreen, once in control, saw the 1.9 share and 22nd rank of WYNY and realized that the station had to change.

Even in the best of times, Summer of '92, WYNY peaked at a 3.1 and then fell off 2.7 to a 2.4 to a 2.1 in successive books, a level it would hover around until the plug was pulled. The station was generally in that range after that... the next 4 books, into 1994 were a 2.3. 2.3, 2.1 and a 2.0 in Spring of 1994. All through the period, the 12+ rank was around 20th.

The surprising thing is that a format change did not happen sooner... but, coming full circle, I think the ownership transitions prevented and earlier change or modification.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Some other questions, could we see, (or better expression) hear WCBS-FM increase the rotation of 50s and early 60s music. and the return of a Pop Standards station.

As existing listeners age, the station will reduce the play of even late 60's music to make sure they appeal to newer entrants into the 35-54 demo they generate sales from.

I truthfully believe there's a profitable audience out there for a Country and Standards audience. The problem is Madison Avenue doesn't beleive it.

Ad agencies don't really pay that much attention to format as they do to demographic data. Standards appeals to 65+... mostly to 70+, and I don´t thing there is any agency business for radio for 65+ at all.

Country has the problem that, even in diary days, WYNY spent its last several years at around a 2.0 share, which is not enough to make money today. And 15 years later, there is even less country interest in New York than before.

 

[Seltzer]

Some other questions, could we see, (or better expression) hear WCBS-FM increase the rotation of 50s and early 60s music. and the return of a Pop Standards station.

I truthfully believe there's a profitable audience out there for a Country and Standards audience. The problem is Madison Avenue doesn't beleive it.

CBS is doing just fine as it is. Going back makes no sense. The station has evolved like other smart Classic Hits stations around the country.


Thanks,
Kevin L. Sealy

 

[DavidEduardo]

Assuming those numbers are correct, let's take that 40% and say 20% is Hispanic. So how does the market support 3 spanish language stations?

The market is 24% Hispanic (And 17% African American).

The Hispanic market is about 50% Spanish dominant. The other half are bilingual or English dominant; bilinguals have considerable usage of Spanish language radio. Even assuming that 30% of Hispanics will not use Spanish language radio (a figure born out by the non-duplicated cume of the Spanish language stations) we have about 18% of the market who will use Spanish language radio.

Hispanic listening tends to be for greater numbers of weekly hours than for non-Hispanic whites. So there should be about 20 shares available for Spanish language radio... meaning that there is still untapped potential in that market segment.

On top of that, many Hispanics speak English as their first language, and some might not even know Spanish at all. Anybody that doesn't speak Spanish is not going to listen to any of the 3 spanish stations. How do they survive?

There are 5 Spanish language stations, WADO, WSKQ, WPAT, WQBU and WXNY plus some religious stations, not three. As to language usage, addressed partially above, remember that half of all Hispanics in the NYC metro are Spanish dominant. About another 20% or so are bilingual, and for cultural and heritage reasons are likely to like Spanish language music... even if they listen to some English, they will also find music they like on Spanish language stations.

 

[CTListener]

Some other questions, could we see, (or better expression) hear WCBS-FM increase the rotation of 50s and early 60s music. and the return of a Pop Standards station.

As existing listeners age, the station will reduce the play of even late 60's music to make sure they appeal to newer entrants into the 35-54 demo they generate sales from.

I truthfully believe there's a profitable audience out there for a Country and Standards audience. The problem is Madison Avenue doesn't beleive it.

Ad agencies don't really pay that much attention to format as they do to demographic data. Standards appeals to 65+... mostly to 70+, and I don´t thing there is any agency business for radio for 65+ at all.

Country has the problem that, even in diary days, WYNY spent its last several years at around a 2.0 share, which is not enough to make money today. And 15 years later, there is even less country interest in New York than before.

Hartford hadn't had country music on FM for nearly a decade before WWYZ appeared in 1988. It was on flea-powered AMs that never made a ratings book (WMLB 1550, WSCR 1220) in the Hartford and New Haven markets for a few years at a time. Then Country 92.5 comes on, playing music most of its listeners had never heard by artists they didn't know ... and it was a howling success right out of the gate and continues to post big numbers today. How do you explain that? Yeah, yeah, I know the suburbs are largely lily white, but still, there was no history of country music interest in the area and 92.5 was an out-of-the-box hit.

 

[Joseph_Gallant]

I think the only way it will in the near future is if either WFME-94.7 or WBAI-99.5 are sold to commercial operators.

Were either to go fully commercial, I can't see them doing anything other than country. Everything else seems to be taken.

 

[johnny marks]

New York could knock 'em dead with an eclectic country station. There's a CD with Tom Waits, Kinky Friedman And The Texas Jewboys, Willie, etc. that would fit NY like a good Stetson and a Cuban ceegar!

 

[CTListener]

New York could knock 'em dead with an eclectic country station. There's a CD with Tom Waits, Kinky Friedman And The Texas Jewboys, Willie, etc. that would fit NY like a good Stetson and a Cuban ceegar!

That sounds like the legendary KOKE, Austin, Texas, not anything that would have a prayer of attracting an audience in New York City.

 

[xmradiopro]

Actually WYNY 106.9 FM is back as a Country Station...The WYNY call letters are currently being used in Port Jervis, New York on 106.9 FM so don't count on them for WYNY New York Country...

I could see a 94.7 WYNY or a 99.5 WYNY. Could 93.1 be 93.1 WYNY?

 

[DavidEduardo]

Then Country 92.5 comes on, playing music most of its listeners had never heard by artists they didn't know ... and it was a howling success right out of the gate and continues to post big numbers today. How do you explain that? Yeah, yeah, I know the suburbs are largely lily white, but still, there was no history of country music interest in the area and 92.5 was an out-of-the-box hit.

1. That was 25 years ago.
2. That was in the TSL / loyalty based diary system.
3. Hartford, in 1988, was only about 15% ethnic; NYC today is about 60% ethnic and early generation immigrant.

 

[johnny marks]

Because of New Yorks's proclivity for the new, different..you get it..this is 180 from the old KOKE (bless 'em!). When we produced "Pearls In The Snow" in the late '90's that very topic came up: "This would play well in New York." It did and would again.

Naturally, the jocks, music selection and other components would be tweaked for a NY audience. I more than respect your thoughts, but don't agree with the KOKE analogy.

 

[Groove1670]

New York could knock 'em dead with an eclectic country station. There's a CD with Tom Waits, Kinky Friedman And The Texas Jewboys, Willie, etc. that would fit NY like a good Stetson and a Cuban ceegar!

No, that audience is even smaller. The bottom line, at the peak of country music in the 90's radio was afraid to play the crossover hits (when country was outselling pop). Like now, the music was selling, radio decided not to play it.

I laughed when I heard AC in later years playing Garth, Shania, Womack,and others a few years later, because a focus group said it was okay.

Some stations are (were) taking the chance of the latest crossovers, but mostly in medium/smaller markets.

Slave to the PPM. Let's play it safe.

With 220M views, how long will it take radio to play "Gangnam style". Yes it is awful, and is one that will never make the gold recurrent library, but somebody is watching/listening now.

Until radio comes up with methodology to sample the complete audience of any given station. (with future IP technology) We will argue all day.

Hopefully,we will see that soon.

 

[DavidEduardo]

I laughed when I heard AC in later years playing Garth, Shania, Womack,and others a few years later, because a focus group said it was okay.

That's just not correct for a variety of reasons. First, music selection on stations is not determined by focus groups. And, second, music is determined by much broader based music testing and when songs are acceptable, they get played. One of AC's biggest problems is the burn-out of gold; finding songs to keep the number of cuts in the library at the desired minimum levels is very important.

Some stations are (were) taking the chance of the latest crossovers, but mostly in medium/smaller markets.

... where they do not have the money to do good research and the audience tools to evaluate instantaneous tuneout and such.

Slave to the PPM. Let's play it safe.

In transactional markets, we have always reacted to ratings, right back to the Crossley ratings in the 30's. The PPM is just a new iteration of the same principal, and if we want to compete for agency / large account business, we have to look good in something or another in the ratings.

Is a race car driver a slave to speed? Or is it just that speed is a necessary part of winning?

With 220M views, how long will it take radio to play "Gangnam style".

I would first ask the question if this is a hit song or a hit video. I don't think it is a hit song.

Until radio comes up with methodology to sample the complete audience of any given station. (with future IP technology) We will argue all day.

Hopefully,we will see that soon.

Until no listening is done to AM and FM signals, that won't happen.

 

[TheBigA]

New York could knock 'em dead with an eclectic country station. There's a CD with Tom Waits, Kinky Friedman And The Texas Jewboys, Willie, etc. that would fit NY like a good Stetson and a Cuban ceegar!

Imus plays all this stuff in his show, and people put up with it because he's Imus.

 

[Barry]

Let's not forget that NYC does have a country station, WLTW HD2.
Though most radio listeners are probably not aware it even exists, and do not want to be bothered with HD radio, it is quite a decent listen. NY Country carries the well programmed Country Road service from Clear Channel, featuring major market DJ's, such as Boxer and Michael J from WMZQ in Washington D.C.
WLTW is one of about 3 stations in New York that run relatively high power on HD, so the signal is quite solid in much of the Metro Area. And the fact that there are no commercials is icing on the cake.

 

[CTListener]

Let's not forget that NYC does have a country station, WLTW HD2.
Though most radio listeners are probably not aware it even exists, and do not want to be bothered with HD radio, it is quite a decent listen. NY Country carries the well programmed Country Road service from Clear Channel, featuring major market DJ's, such as Boxer and Michael J from WMZQ in Washington D.C.
WLTW is one of about 3 stations in New York that run relatively high power on HD, so the signal is quite solid in much of the Metro Area. And the fact that there are no commercials is icing on the cake.

And there's why WLTW HD2 is irrelevant. It means buying a new radio, and that's not a purchase most non-radio geeks have made in years. Even audiophiles looking to upgrade their home audio systems aren't going to make HD a priority for the tuner portion of their set-up. Unless FM HD becomes standard on all manufacturers' car radios, the way regular FM is, it will never gain traction. And there's no sign of that ever happening.

 

[Groove1670]

That's just not correct for a variety of reasons. First, music selection on stations is not determined by focus groups.

Sorry Auditorium Music Test.

We will agree to disagree on country crossover hits. SeveraL Top 40/AC programmers at the time (I knew many) said they would not even think about playing one of those songs.

... where they do not have the money to do good research and the audience tools to evaluate instantaneous tuneout and such.

Yes but w/o those so called tools. There are several success stories.

The PPM is just a new iteration of the same principal, and if we want to compete for agency / large account business, we have to look good in something or another in the ratings.

Yes it is the "de facto standard".

I would first ask the question if this is a hit song or a hit video. I don't think it is a hit song.

As I said, it is awful, and is one that will never make the the gold recurrent library. It did get 41 adds (second most added) this week. Including KBKS Seattle, KKRZ Portland, WBBM Chicago, and Y100 Miami. Plus 15 Rhythmic stations. He also appeared at the IHeart festival last night. To be honest, I am surprised at the adds for this song.

Remember two little known artists named Justin Beiber, and Carly Rae Jepsen made the radio charts thanks to that thing called Youtube. Without it, it would be doubtful you would see them on the charts.

It has, and will continue to have impact on the music we listen to.

Until no listening is done to AM and FM signals, that won't happen.

As I said (with future IP technology)

 

[CTListener]

Until no listening is done to AM and FM signals, that won't happen.

As I said (with future IP technology)

And competing technology -- legal or grey-market -- will emerge allowing privacy-craving internet listeners to block whatever detecting technology the broadcasting industry tries to employ. Think ad-blockers.

 

[CTListener]

I would first ask the question if this is a hit song or a hit video. I don't think it is a hit song.

As I said, it is awful, and is one that will never make the the gold recurrent library. It did get 41 adds (second most added) this week. Including KBKS Seattle, KKRZ Portland, WBBM Chicago, and Y100 Miami. Plus 15 Rhythmic stations. He also appeared at the IHeart festival last night. To be honest, I am surprised at the adds for this song.

Sirius XM is on it as well, putting it in regular rotation on its hits channels. I gave it a listen ... apart from being in Korean, I don't find it any worse than any of the other Auto-Tuned rhythmic pseudo-hip-hop pastiches out there that regularly climb the charts. It's picking up steam and if the Clear Channel CHRs are given marching orders to push this song, then it may very well become a hit no matter what you think of it. Radio will see to it that it does.

 

[Groove1670]

I gave it a listen ... apart from being in Korean, I don't find it any worse than any of the other Auto-Tuned rhythmic pseudo-hip-hop pastiches out there that regularly climb the charts.

Agreed.