Can someone explain the In The Air Tonight effect in Dallas to me?

[boombox4]

On the other hand, whenever a radio company takes a huge risk and does everything the complainers want, they get kicked in the teeth. For example, Hubbard's recent disaster in Seattle with the AAA format. That station was built specifically to attract an unserved adult music-lover audience that had experience with the music, the personalities, and the presentation. After a year, the best they could do was a .9. That's not much of a reward considering the investment.

Good point.

The lesson from that example is that the people who want what Kramer is selling don't listen to radio, and are unlikely to change their habits just because what they want is back on the radio. As I often say, radio stations don't program to people who don't listen. We're now at a point where that older, more sophisticated rock audience no longer listens. And there is nothing that will make them change their habits, because there is no curated format that is better than your own personal favorites.

At the same time, if commercial music radio is becoming basically 5 subtly different flavors of the same 4 formats, what does that say about the product? Short term gain, yes. It works. But long term? They risk pushing more listeners to Spotify and Pandora (and YouTube, that goes without saying). I think one reason KPNW-FM in Seattle (the AAA you mentioned) failed was because most AAA fans already had gone to Spotify and Pandora already.

RE: the bands Kramer mentioned: We had a station in Seattle that played a lot of those bands (not all of them, but did concentrate on the 90's/00's. The format got yanked. Where do you think the listeners went? Probably to streaming. I can find at least two channels on Pandora that play those bands, and other bands from that era.

It's a conundrum for radio, because to make money, they have to cater to the lowest common denominator (for lack of a better description), because that gets ratings. But at the same time, that catering to the LCD drives a lot of listeners away. In the 70's-80's maybe it drove alienated listeners to their cassette deck. In the 60's, they didn't have such portable alternatives, so radio had to suffice.

Today they have streaming on their phone, with 100 different channels or more available on the larger streaming platforms. And once they find a channel they like on Pandora or Spotify, will they come back to OTA radio?

 

[TheBigA]

At the same time, if commercial music radio is becoming basically 5 subtly different flavors of the same 4 formats, what does that say about the product?

Depends on what you consider the product. Radio companies don't make the music. They play the songs their research says the people want to hear. They're not playing their own personal favorites. If these are the songs the people want to hear, why should the stations instead force them to listen to bands they don't like to fulfill some quota system?

Also what makes you think they're not also listening to these same songs on Spotify and other services? We can see what they listen to through streaming charts, and the record labels promote those songs to us in radio based on those streaming charts. So the real question is: If the people want this music, and the people making it are also pointing to the charts that say this is what the people want, then where is the problem?

It's a conundrum for radio, because to make money, they have to cater to the lowest common denominator (for lack of a better description), because that gets ratings. But at the same time, that catering to the LCD drives a lot of listeners away.

The musicians have that exact same conundrum. They make more money making music that attracts the most people. Radio helps them do that. I know songs I could play that will drive people out of a room. I also know songs that will get them to sing along. So it's in the best interests of musicians to make music that appeals to the most people, so they can sell the most units, make the most royalty, and play to larger audiences.

Today they have streaming on their phone, with 100 different channels or more available on the larger streaming platforms. And once they find a channel they like on Pandora or Spotify, will they come back to OTA radio?

It depends on their budget, their interest in protecting their personal identity, and how important music is to their lives.

 

[Triple Fake Jerry]

Also, I'd love an argument why in a market this size, the bands I mentioned aren't being played, thus justifying a true rock format here.

Godsmack, Five Finger Death Punch, Dirty Hony, Blackstone Cherry, Pantera(!), Drowning Pool, Tool, Marilyn Manson, White Zombie, Korn, Disturbed, Shinedown, Avenged Sevenfold, Slipknot, Killswitch Engage, Limp Bizkit, Trivium, Puddle of Mudd, Staind, Three Days Grace, Lacuna Coil, Kitty, Rise Against, Saliva, Iron Maiden, Theory of a Deadman, Silverchair, Cold, Trapt, Velvet Revolver, Coal Chamber, Rammstein, Static X, Machinehead, Stone Sour, Ozzy (post 1992), Brother Caine, Greta Van Fleet, Royal Blood, Chevelle, Volbeat, The Pretty Reckless, Saint Asonia, Zakk Wylde, Ayron Jones, Bush, Bring Me The Horizon, Breaking Benjamin, Dorothy, Ghost, Papa Roach, 10 Years, Kenny Wayne Sheppard, Halestorm, Default, Sevendust, The Killers, Messer, Candlebox, Finger Eleven . . .

My receiver at my store plays half or more of these artists on his Spotify every Monday when we get our freight truck. These artists would definitely make a pretty good nucleus.

(Please exclude Butthole Surfers, Toadies and Space Hog though. Those have been played to death long enough in the DFW market. Ease up on the pre-Sabotage Beasties too.)

 

[TexasTom]

But really...music isn't what sets ANY radio station apart. Unless you know how to sing. How many people would tune is to hear YOU sing? Probably nobody. But at one time, people tuned in to hear you talk. THAT'S what sets stations apart. The presentation. The stuff BETWEEN the songs. If all you want to hear is music, subscribe to Pandora. PAY for the music. That way the artists get a taste.

The problem is that what is between the songs doesn't set the different stations apart anymore, because what is between is bland liners and voice-tracked mediocrity. Frankly, the on-air presentation today in DFW might be competitive with small market automation from forty years ago.

 

[TheBigA]

The problem is that what is between the songs doesn't set the different stations apart anymore, because what is between is bland liners and voice-tracked mediocrity.

And yet the listeners seem to know the difference. Otherwise all the stations would be tied with the same number of listeners.

 

[TexasTom]

And yet the listeners seem to know the difference. Otherwise all the stations would be tied with the same number of listeners.

That probably comes down more to the music than it does what comes in between.

 

[TheBigA]

That probably comes down more to the music than it does what comes in between.

The OP says the music is the same. You say the hosting is the same. The listeners seem to differ.

 

[CTaylor]

I'll just say this one thing on the subject. KHYI is not a rock station, but we DO play independent artists that the mainstream stations don't play. We play the Zach Bryans, Sierra Ferrells, Tyler Childers, Steven Wilson Jrs, Brent Cobbs, and Jason Isbells of the world. We were playing Chris Stapleton loooooong before he won a CMA and became a mainstay on country radio. There are stations that "get it" and are not playing the same ol' same ol' that other stations play, you just have to look for em.

 

[R.D.P.]

Looking for your independent music fix, check us out at wpjb org. You'll love our style. We don't play the same ol' songs every hour. My playlist is very big. We cover many different styles and singers from the past and present.

Dan <><​

 

[R.D.P.]

To @CTaylor, do you play the local singers? If so, keep at it. I play many of them myself. My playlist is very original. I think well outside the box. Never have been one to play just the hits only. Intend to keep it that way.

Dan <><

P.S. Kudos to you for being an original sounding broadcast. My goal is to be one too.​

 

[LibertyNT]

To @CTaylor, do you play the local singers? If so, keep at it. I play many of them myself. My playlist is very original. I think well outside the box. Never have been one to play just the hits only. Intend to keep it that way.

Dan <><

P.S. Kudos to you for being an original sounding broadcast. My goal is to be one too.​

Kind of what they've always been known for.

 

[ILOVERADIO]

Where I grew up, there were quite a few AOR stations playing deep cuts. Even today, there is a lot more variety there than in DFW. DFW is one of the most boring radio markets in the country.

I think the San Diego radio market is as bad or worse than Dallas. No classical station. No classic country or standards. No oldies stations. Mostly 80s music. Seems like all the stations play are commercials and the same hits all the time. Even DJs seemed to have disappeared except in morning drive.

At least Dallas has a classical station, a pretty good conservative talk station, a county station with lots of gold songs. IMO there’s not one interesting station in the San Diego market. I will concede we have 2 modern rock alternative stations that some people like, but that’s about it.

 

[E-Cam]

I think the San Diego radio market is as bad or worse than Dallas. No classical station. No classic country or standards. No oldies stations. Mostly 80s music. Seems like all the stations play are commercials and the same hits all the time. Even DJs seemed to have disappeared except in morning drive.

At least Dallas has a classical station, a pretty good conservative talk station, a county station with lots of gold songs. IMO there’s not one interesting station in the San Diego market. I will concede we have 2 modern rock alternative stations that some people like, but that’s about it.

There is one thing San Diego has that DFW doesn't have, and that's a classic alternative station, like 91X. The last I heard were some 80s alternative stuff like Love and Rockets, The Ramones, New Order, Siouxsie and the Banshees, etc. along with 90s alternative that hardly ever get played like They Might Be Giants, Mighty Mighty Bosstones and even Primus. Yeah, you may hear it once in a while on KXT, Alt, or even Jack FM, but it's buried with other overrated songs.

 

[CTaylor]

To @CTaylor, do you play the local singers? If so, keep at it. I play many of them myself. My playlist is very original. I think well outside the box. Never have been one to play just the hits only. Intend to keep it that way.

Dan <><

P.S. Kudos to you for being an original sounding broadcast. My goal is to be one too.​

Yes we do. Like LibertyNT said it's what we're know for. (that and our historically bad signal which I've worked over the last decade to get fixed and we're finally to a point where the station sounds good pretty consistently 😉!)

 

[dfwrunner2]

I think the San Diego radio market is as bad or worse than Dallas. No classical station. No classic country or standards. No oldies stations. Mostly 80s music. Seems like all the stations play are commercials and the same hits all the time. Even DJs seemed to have disappeared except in morning drive.

At least Dallas has a classical station, a pretty good conservative talk station, a county station with lots of gold songs. IMO there’s not one interesting station in the San Diego market. I will concede we have 2 modern rock alternative stations that some people like, but that’s about it.

We (Louisville/Cinci/Indy) even have several bluegrass stations in addition to all of the other mentioned formats

 

[Kent]

We (Louisville/Cinci/Indy) even have several bluegrass stations in addition to all of the other mentioned formats

Having lived in one of those cities, you can get a few Dayton FM's in Cincy and vice-versa, but you're not going to get any FM from Indy or Louisville in either. You won't normally get anything from Cincy or Louisville in Indy other than WKRC, WLW, and WHAS, and you're not getting any FM from Cincy or Indy in Louisville on a normal day. I'd be surprised if there was any spot that could get all three markets' stations. Those Class B stations don't travel very far.

You are correct, though, that those markets, especially Louisville, have some interesting stations. Louisville Public Media reminds me a lot of what North Texas Public Broadcasting seems to want to accomplish. It, however, has been doing the AAA, classical, and news/talk combination a lot longer and, for a market of its size, its stations sound excellent.

 

[dfwrunner2]

Having lived in one of those cities, you can get a few Dayton FM's in Cincy and vice-versa, but you're not going to get any FM from Indy or Louisville in either. You won't normally get anything from Cincy or Louisville in Indy other than WKRC, WLW, and WHAS, and you're not getting any FM from Cincy or Indy in Louisville on a normal day. I'd be surprised if there was any spot that could get all three markets' stations. Those Class B stations don't travel very far.

You are correct, though, that those markets, especially Louisville, have some interesting stations. Louisville Public Media reminds me a lot of what North Texas Public Broadcasting seems to want to accomplish. It, however, has been doing the AAA, classical, and news/talk combination a lot longer and, for a market of its size, its stations sound excellent.

I didn't say the stations were city stations. Every tiny town in that area has a radio station or 3.