Are Part 15 stations exempt of royaltys

[joshzz]

LOWPAYDJ,

Please don't worry about it. No one is ever going to come to your house to collect music licensing fees.

The money they would have to pay (airfare, car, employee salary) to get to your residence is far more than they would ever collect in a lifetime...

BMI, ASCAP & SESAC are businesses - they're not the GESTAPO and unless you decide to get a full power station, you don't exist to them.

 

[Bongwater]

You still haven't illustrated just what IS the fundamental difference between somebody playing ASCAP/BMI/SESAC music on an iPod transmitter and a Part 15 station.

I said this earlier in this thread: Intent. The intent of a Part 15 is for OTHER people to hear it. The intent for an iPod is personal use.

Look...do whatever you want, but if you get hauled into court, YOU are going to be the one who has to illustrate why you should be exempt. Because the law is on their side. I don't work for ASCAP or BMI, and I'm not taking their side. I'm just telling you what the law says.

And before anyone debates MY ethics on this issue, I encourage anyone here to open any book on the American music industry: It's uglier than you think........

That is not a defense for breaking the law. Killing a bad guy is no defense for murder.

Intent is an interesting point. Because iPod transmitters are manufactured with the intent to be heard on radios. So are Part 15 transmitters. They are technically the same in spite of "intent" of use. Talking House transmitters were "intended" for real estate use, but they were popular for other Part 15 broadcasting purposes. Twitter was intended to be a small-scale social networking service and it became an insanely popular revolution. As long as the intentions of those who found other uses for these products beyond their original intended use are good, I see no problem.

But what's puzzled me from the day we first got into this debate Big A is why are you so passionate over this?

Were YOU once at the receiving end of a PROs wrath? Do tell....

And if you aren't employed by a PRO, you sure as hell sound like you are. And myself, I would actually support the PROs if they would end the hypocrisy and treat those who operate iPod transmitters and Part 15 transmitters exactly the same. I would also like to see them targeting people playing boomy rap music in cars the way they target beauty salons playing a radio. Is that too much to ask? I mean...SERIOUSLY. We've GOT to come to some form of mutual understanding here.

The "law" (and it's a CIVIL law we're talking about, the criminal courts have MUCH bigger things on their dockets) as it is is extremely vague and vague laws are often overturned. And this is definitely one for the Supreme Court because there are just too damn many double standards. Sooner or later, there is going to be a MASSIVE challenge to these laws and it will be up to the PROs to define exactly what constitutes a violation to the general public in a clear and fair manner and be prepared for any public backlash that may come of it. Or be willing to make certain sacrifices to ensure the public has the right to use and enjoy music with the technology that brings it without any legal hassles on their part.

That is all.

But you know, even the RIAA has stopped suing file sharers because it has been counterproductive (some of their targets included a 12 year old girl and an elderly grandmother who doesn't even own a computer, nor has ever used the internet.)

And the PROs need to watch it too. Overzealous acts like targeting a beauty shop for playing a radio can backfire horribly too......

 

[LowPayDJ]

What ever happened to the days where a recording artist was just thankful that anyone gave a sh*t enough to give them airplay. Without airplay, no one would know who they are, and they wouldn't be able to sell CD's or fill concert halls. The Artists should be grateful for the airplay that they get. Without it, they wouldn't be where they are today.

 

[Bongwater]

What ever happened to the days where a recording artist was just thankful that anyone gave a sh*t enough to give them airplay. Without airplay, no one would know who they are, and they wouldn't be able to sell CD's or fill concert halls. The Artists should be grateful for the airplay that they get. Without it, they wouldn't be where they are today.

Maybe except for Lily Allen, 99.999% of them are. Some indie acts such as Brian Bethke and Cavashawn (from Chicago) are actually THRILLED to have their music played on Part 15 or other alternative media. They are part of a growing counter-revolution to the commercial recording industry called Creative Commons. It's still in it's infancy, but already some of the material made by artists through Creative Commons is on par, if not BETTER than what is offered by the majors. The music itself is a loss-leader. The real money these acts make comes from shows and sales of merchandise, just as it usually with most major rock/pop acts in this day and age.

The only people really complaining are the various middlemen (major labels, RIAA, ASCAP/BMI) who see the writing on the wall, know their days are numbered and are fighing tooth and nail to keep their careers from becoming obsolete and older and/or more established acts that cannot adjust to the cyber-age in music distribution and it's expectations.......

 

[TheBigA]

But what's puzzled me from the day we first got into this debate Big A is why are you so passionate over this?

Read the topic of this thread. I'm answering a question.

I've run Part 15s, LPFMs and all kinds of radio operations, and I don't want to see anyone screwed. By the same token I've taken part in panel discussions with guys from PROs, and I know there is a lot of pressure there to suck money from any stone they can get. They never gave a rats ass about Part 15 til now. The RIAA never gave a rat's ass about a performance royalty til now. They're hurting and they want everyone else to feel their pain.

 

[TheBigA]

What ever happened to the days where a recording artist was just thankful that anyone gave a sh*t enough to give them airplay.

The artists aren't the driving force here. It's mainly suits. Publishers want to get every buck they can.

Plus keep in mind the music industry is in the toilet. CD sales are way way way down. People are stealing more music than ever before. And Part 15s are vulnerable, because they use music and really don't contribute to the sales equation. They're viewed as freeloaders. The music folks are looking for someone to turn into an example...someone they can point to and say "We're looking out for our clients." They don't need to convict them all. Just a couple in order to make their point. Do you want to be that one?

 

[joshzz]

DEAR BIGA,

It's not going to happen. No one cares about the scraps that Part 15 offers.

I talk to my BMI, ASCAP, & Sesac reps on a frequent basis. Do you know what is their main concern? Getting full powers/lpfms to make reasonable payment. 2009 has been a difficult year for everyone.

Honestly, there's no point in getting Part15 operators all worked up over nothing.. It is absolutely nothing. Not one of the reps I spoke to, cares about what Part15 operators do....

josh

 

[TheBigA]

Not one of the reps I spoke to, cares about what Part15 operators do....

If that's true, why are they sending letters to Part 15 operators demanding payment? Ask them that question.

 

[WCWalker]

Not one of the reps I spoke to, cares about what Part15 operators do....

If that's true, why are they sending letters to Part 15 operators demanding payment? Ask them that question.

Which stations? BMI sent a few out right after they created that clause and form on their site in 2005 asking for $200 a year from Part 15 stations. The word I received was that BMI gave up a few months later though because they could not collect much of anything. And the cost to take a Part 15 to court over $200 is going to be cost prohibitive for their legal team.

 

[Carmine5]

In looking at the websites for ASCAP and BMI, I did notice one key difference. Unlike BMI, ASCAP has no provision for Part 15 stations. The ASCAP radio agreement is for licensed stations only and there is no category within their license agreements that would fit a Part 15 station (it's not a restaurant or a club and it isn't a licensed broadcast station). So I wouldn't worry about ASCAP.

http://www.bmi.com/forms/licensing/radio/part_15_radio_license.pdf
http://www.ascap.com/licensing/radio/FeeMethodology.pdf

As for BMI, the main obstacle for them in tracking down Part 15 stations to see whether they have an agreement or not is that Part 15 stations leave no paper trail. There is no database that BMI can search to find such stations. The best they can do is go to some website like Part15.us and look for station web links, which is why I would never give a site like Part15.us my station's web address.

In the end, only BMI can weigh whether or not it's worth 219.00 to go through the trouble. Of course, if your station is high profile (and there are a few Part 15's that are) then it might be worth securing the agreement. The only problem with the agreement is that you give BMI the right to examine your books and if your ad revenue is over 10K then your station no longer qualifies under a Part 15 license.

c5

 

[Nate Wesley]

What ever happened to the days where a recording artist was just thankful that anyone gave a sh*t enough to give them airplay. Without airplay, no one would know who they are, and they wouldn't be able to sell CD's or fill concert halls. The Artists should be grateful for the airplay that they get. Without it, they wouldn't be where they are today.

Those days are gone for good. Radio isn't the sole source for new music exposure anymore. It's actually a terrible medium for new music discovery, thanks to the customization that new technologies allow. Music testing and 'pounding the hits' to keep the radio ratings high--these create an artificial gateway for most people from hearing any meaningful variety amongst (or across) music genres.

 

[Bongwater]

What ever happened to the days where a recording artist was just thankful that anyone gave a sh*t enough to give them airplay. Without airplay, no one would know who they are, and they wouldn't be able to sell CD's or fill concert halls. The Artists should be grateful for the airplay that they get. Without it, they wouldn't be where they are today.

Those days are gone for good. Radio isn't the sole source for new music exposure anymore. It's actually a terrible medium for new music discovery, thanks to the customization that new technologies allow. Music testing and 'pounding the hits' to keep the radio ratings high--these create an artificial gateway for most people from hearing any meaningful variety amongst (or across) music genres.

You illustrate an excellent point. It's usually the social networking sites that do more for new music promotion and distribution than radio knows what to do with these days. Usually by the time a song debuts on radio, it's pretty much old hat, the "buzz" is long gone (that usually comes after MONTHS of research....which I think does more to hurt radio than help.)

 

[joshzz]

Radio is still king for distribution. Ask any of the labels . josh -raido station owner

 

[edarmsttrong]

Radio is still king for distribution. Ask any of the labels . josh -raido station owner

You must live in a place where the internet does not exist...

 

[joshzz]

We're located in two major Arbitron rated markets and a third is very near us, however, that's beside the point. NO one is buying anything in non-rated markets. There is no payola involving internet streamers unless they are very HUGE players. It's still being done the old fashioned way. Don't let anyone tell you differently.

 

[Bongwater]

We're located in two major Arbitron rated markets and a third is very near us, however, that's beside the point. NO one is buying anything in non-rated markets. There is no payola involving internet streamers unless they are very HUGE players. It's still being done the old fashioned way. Don't let anyone tell you differently.

The point is I usually hear more about the newest acts, Monsters Of Folk, for example on MySpace long before they appear on the radio.....

 

[Prais]

Josh said, "NO one is buying anything in non-rated markets."

Can you elaborate? If your statement is TRUE as written, you need to get out yourself and SELL (I found that people enjoy buying from "the boss.")

You may need to hire some better sales staff, on HIGH comission - and make them accountable.

Young women work very well in sales. If you pay as much as 30% commission (nothing more), you'd be attracting self starters and "entrepeneur type people" who want to make a good buck.

I had salespeople making more than me. That was a very GOOD thing!

 

[joshzz]

Radio stations in non-rated markets can do well in sales. I was referring to payola - pay to play only. josh

 

[edarmsttrong]

Radio stations in non-rated markets can do well in sales. I was referring to payola - pay to play only. josh

I thought payola was illegal...?

Anyway, these days, the labels want you to pay them to play the music. Times have changed.

 

[TheBigA]

Anyway, these days, the labels want you to pay them to play the music. Times have changed.

Times haven't changed. Payola isn't illegal on the internet. If you want to know why unknown acts are getting internet play, follow the money.