Some really good tunes and bands hitting the scene. A few years ago Alternative and the Active rock chart were 70 percent or more the same songs. Now its AAA and Alternative charts looking similar.
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Alternative BDS chart actually looking 'Alternative' now
- Thread starter Fieldtech1
- Start date
The top three songs on alternative right now are "Madness", "I Will Wait", and "Ho Hey". None of those songs are in the top 30 on the Active Rock chart, but are on the Adult Alternative chart. Well, I don't see "Ho Hey" on the Adult Alternative chart. It sounds like something that would be played on that format though. So maybe it just went recurrent and was removed from the chart for that reason.
So, yes, Alternative and Active Rock are no longer similar to each other. This is bad news for cities that only have one FM modern rock station though. Either way, a lot of popular songs aren't being played. And if a radio station was to try playing both alternative rock and hard rock, people would complain.
Source of information: http://www.americasmusiccharts.com/index.cgi?fmt=R3&rtmref=americasmusiccharts
Slightly off topic observation: I'm surprised that "I Will Wait" is getting more airplay on alternative stations than on country stations.
So, yes, Alternative and Active Rock are no longer similar to each other. This is bad news for cities that only have one FM modern rock station though. Either way, a lot of popular songs aren't being played. And if a radio station was to try playing both alternative rock and hard rock, people would complain.
Source of information: http://www.americasmusiccharts.com/index.cgi?fmt=R3&rtmref=americasmusiccharts
Slightly off topic observation: I'm surprised that "I Will Wait" is getting more airplay on alternative stations than on country stations.
werecat said:
I hope this was sarcasm. As bluegrassy as it sounds, I would puke if Mumford & Sons crossed over to country stations.
Anyway, I'm actually glad to see Alternative charts actually reflecting true "alternative". I honestly think the stations that may have reported as alternative when active rock had so much in common chartwise, truly weren't alternative. Stations like Radio 104.5 never really gave into the active/thrashing rock. To me, that's real alternative.
It's actually always sucked for cities with only one "New Rock" station since those tend to be more active rock-leaning. I completely tuned out rock on local radio in Greenville, SC with our "new rock" station The Planet. That station ignores almost anything that doesn't have a screaming guitar. Now (and even though I've mentioned them in numerous threads I'm not saying it's perfect), my market finally does have a true alternative station that plays a wide range of new rock. And that's what I never got about the lean towards active rock, true alternative has always been there, it just took some breakthroughs to bring stations back around to it.
awp69 said:
Oops... sorry for taking this thread way too far off-topic. I started a thread in the country section (my first thread at Radio-Info, I think
).awp69 said:
I can understand this point of view. As a child, I didn't have Internet at home yet. Only rich people had computers back then. Not even the public library had the Internet yet. Then, even after we got the Internet at home, we only had dial-up and with limited hours. So Internet radio really wasn't an option. We lived in north-central Ohio. The only FM rock station I could pick up that would play modern rock too (not just classic rock) only played hard rock.
So I didn't really have very much exposure to alternative music for a long time, except for the songs that were played on MTV or crossed over to WNCI (a top 40 station that had and might still have a slight adult top 40 lean).
I have memories of modifying my radio, adding hangers and stuff to it, trying to get more FM stations from Columbus. But, in most cases, there was just too much static.
I personally like alternative rock and hard rock about equally. But, yes, I suppose they are different enough from each other that they should each have their own stations.
WBIMDJ said:
Problem is, there's nowhere near enough content to program a "new alternative" station without dipping into Active currents/gold.
To the other comment about cities with one rock outlet...which format will win out. A more mainstream rock format that combines current active & classic hard rock is going to win out every times, as many new alt songs cross over to CHR (which is terrible IMO).
G
upstate29651 said:
Funny thing is that in the Upstate that hasn't really proven true. Well, guess you could say that prior to X98.5, we did have 2 rock outlets - one classic rock WROQ and one active rock WTPT. The Planet has gotten pretty awful ratings and they were mixing in a bit of classic rock (Zeppelin, Pink Floyd...) in with their "new rock" until recently. Although many argue that active rock stations tend to do better than their alternative counterparts, with, as you mentioned, so much crossover to CHR lately, I think alternative stations may start to get the upperhand.
All of the harder, active rock blends together IMO while there's a lot more diversity in alternative rock. I will grant you that X98.5 does dip into the active/gold standards, but there's other alt rock stations -- like the aforementioned Radio 104.5 -- that don't do it as much. Frankly, I wish X98.5 would dump the more active rock songs and even the older grunge. I do think there's a lot more alternative out there now than there was say even just two or three years ago.
So...is it time for an Alt CHR station? One with spin counts reaching 100? Faster 2nd, 3rd hits? Less 90's & 2K...more of Today! We're not you're father's Alt-rock! Is there enough product?
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
butlerguy03 said:
Don't think it's realistic and probably would flop because people that want only alternative want deeper tracks too. But with the amount of repetition on CHR, I think there would be enough product. Some of the alt stations listed in the thread about the best alt stations do find enough and go deep enough to support full alternative without relying as much on Active tracks (although there's probably few if any that don't play the occasional '90s alternative as well as 2000s). There's charts of Alternative's top tracks so no reason an "Alternative CHR" couldn't just play 'em as they overplay everything else on CHR.
But it's not going to happen.
Alternative to what? Most of the top 20 or songs are already on/should be on CHR and/or Hot AC. Isn't alternative supposed to be an alternative to what's popular? I thought the format was really improving from 2009-2011, but now it's starting to sound too much like an edgy Hot AC.
chrocket87 said:
While I agree that a lot of alternative has crossed over lately to CHR and Hot AC, the groups that have crossed were "alternative" at the time they got played. As the thread implies, I would argue that alternative is sounding more like "alternative" should. Groups like Fun. and Gotye were NOT popular and probably would have never made it to CHR if it weren't for alternative stations playing something that was different at the time.
I think the format is improving now over the way it was in the late 2000s. It was basically then Active Rock with very few bands that had a "new" sound. Why even have alternative stations if it's going to be the same loud, metalish stuff like Korn and Five Finger Death Punch that weren't alternative....they were just hard rock?
For the first time in I'd say at least five years, alternative stations actually have music to play that's different. It's not alternative station's fault that those bands turn out to be popular or not. I mentioned this in a different thread, but grunge was what lit alternative stations on fire. But what CHR didn't play "Smells Like Teen Spirit" a hundred times a week back then?
Sure, alternative should play music that isn't popular. But it can't put up a wall and say no CHR is allowed to play this because it's our turf. Heck, even Adele was popular on Alternative before exploding on Hot AC then finally CHR. Now, you'd probably be hard pressed to find an alternative station that would play her. So there may indeed be a backlash against groups like Fun. as they get more popular (hasn't happened yet as we see "Carry On" climb the alternative charts).
I guess I just have a different opinion -- looking at it as a resurgence of alternative. Not alternative becoming Top 40. And just because a bunch of groups are corssing over, the music itself is still a refreshing change from the hard rock that made very little discernable difference between alternative and active rock stations.
Sorry for the rant. This is just something that annoys me as I've grown tired of stations calling themselves "new rock" and only playing head-banging trash that blends from one song to another. And that's not saying that all alternative should be soft. It shouldn't. There's hard rock bands that belong on Alternative stations. But alternative should embrace all forms of new, cutting edge music.
werecat said:
Meant to come back to this thread and say ...you called it. "I Will Wait" is now charting on Country. Don't really like that they are, but as I said in the post above, there's not much that alternative stations can do to prevent crossover. The way I look at it, alternative stations are still "breaking" these bands / songs before the popular crowd catches on.
awp69 said:
I'm a country fan, too, so I have no problem with Mumford & Sons crossing over. Their sound really isn't that far apart from a group like Zac Brown Band. Most country today straddles the line between folk or southern rock or guitar driven rock anyway, so Mumford & Sons really isn't out of place. There's always been an alt-country scene- but generally country has stayed away from it as it wasn't "traditional country". The genre is more open to other music now, though.
Realistically, 2012 is worlds apart from 1992 or 2002 in terms of people being able to hear music from so many different sources, that its not surprising that musical tastes are more varied now and the walls between formats are starting to come down in some ways.
Country isn't even Country anymore,not that I like either old or new country. The Alternative branding has been used to death and it should just be called Modern Rock, which is still not Active Rock, as opposed to Classic Rock. When Alternative went Main Stream it lost its Alternative catch. There is absolutely enough "alternative" to avoid dipping into Active/Classic but that does mean playing more than 2 tracks from each disc.
The surge of folk music has taken what was once an edgy sounding format and turned it into as an earlier poster stated a slightly more interesting AC sound in recent years. I used to avoid the alt/active hybrids but find them more appealing now because you'll actually hear songs with guitars. Sure the format sort of began with a lot of the soft synth sounds of the 80s but it also included acts such as Sex Pistols, Minutemen and Ramones who were anything but soft. Moreover, in the 90s you would hear a myriad of styles - ska, swing, female acts, acoustic, novelty songs, rock, reggae, punk and more - all within regular rotation of the modern alternative rock format. Now it's one soft track after another for the most part. In some respects it's almost an edgier version of MAINSTREAM AC these days.
IMO the cutting edge of modern music was with rock in the 90s, hip hop after that and now is in the electronic music area.
Along the lines of alternative now being a slightly harder version of AC, is this Salon article from last fall:
http://www.salon.com/2011/10/27/have_wilco_and_radiohead_become_the_new_adult_contemporary/
If you figure the 18 to 34 audience that was listening to this music 20 years ago, is now squarely in the upper demos of the 25 to 54 bracket, then in many ways, alternative is now the new AC. As the above poster pointed out, hip hop and electro have taken the crown of "youth music" from modern rock.
http://www.salon.com/2011/10/27/have_wilco_and_radiohead_become_the_new_adult_contemporary/
If you figure the 18 to 34 audience that was listening to this music 20 years ago, is now squarely in the upper demos of the 25 to 54 bracket, then in many ways, alternative is now the new AC. As the above poster pointed out, hip hop and electro have taken the crown of "youth music" from modern rock.
justpassingthough said:
In many ways, I can see where the population that truly grew up when alternative was "big" has indeed grown up. But if you listen to just about any alternative rock station, you'll still hear the "harder" alternative of the '90s. The problem is that with Active Rock stations now taking the reign over basically hard rock, there's nothing alternative about the bands they play on Active Rock...or there would be no need for alternative stations at all. It IS hard rock and harder does not equal alternative. To me, the bands of today's alternative are still the ones that have a different sound. A sound that makes them "alternative" to what is being played elsewhere (and, yes, CHR does pick some of it up, but as I mentioned before, that doesn't mean they were "mainstream" when they first hit alt stations).
I don't get where people think alternative has to be harder rock. It doesn't. But it also can be. Even back in the '90s, R.E.M is a prime example of a band that was played on alternative alot. And they had the same sort of jangly sound that alot of today's new alt bands have. (Ironically, even though alt stations dip back to the '90s, I rarely if ever hear R.E.M. on today's stations --- only hear them occassionaly on mainstream AC). 10,000 Maniacs was another band I heard a lot in the '90s on Alternative stations and were hardly hard rock. So "Alternative" has never been about just screeching electric guitars.
That aside, the grunge of the '90s that still gets played on most alt stations, and there are still some harder bands that make alternative charts -- like Three Days Grace's "Chalk Outline".
Alternative doesn't have to be all heavy, but it shouldn't be sleep-inducing either. Many alternative stations ignore the heavy alt songs, such as "The Original" by Switchfoot or "Dead Man's Shoes" by the Virginmary's, that active rock stations do not play. However, they'll give songs like "Ho Hey" and "Trojans" 80 spins a week, which is just what a CHR station would do. If I turn on an alt station, I don't want to hear 10 songs in a row that sound like "Ho Hey". I'll fall asleep. Likewise, I shouldn't hear 10 songs in a row that sound like "Blood" by In This Moment either. There needs to be balance in the alternative format between heavy and light. More bands like Awolnation and Silversun Pickups, less Ho Heying.awp69 said:
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