All News Radio: An Idea Who's Time Has Come Again?

[FredLeonard]

Audience numbers for right-wing talk are going down in most markets like the Titanic. Numbers of all news, in those markets which have it, are pretty much holding steady.

In the post-Rush era, is there a place for all news in more radio markets? Are there ways it can be produced more economically and cost-effectively at the local level? Should an all news network be tried again and what should be different this time than NBC's, AP's, CNN's and TRN's past efforts?

It seems there have been too major pitfalls for attempts at all news in the past. Stations that relied on network feeds weren't local enough. And other stations that had more people than they really needed. All news stations like the late KBTR, Denver operated successfully with three presenters (alternating half-hours on the air and prep the rest of the time), an editor and one outside reporter in a weekday shift. Others have been successful by providing entry-level jobs at just over minimum wage for aspiring radio news people. An arrangement with a local TV station can provide additional sound (and even live shots from TV types). Network news feeds can can do the rest. With good management, all news does not have to be more expensive than local-live talk.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Audience numbers for right-wing talk are going down in most markets like the Titanic. Numbers of all news, in those markets which have it, are pretty much holding steady.

In the post-Rush era, is there a place for all news in more radio markets? Are there ways it can be produced more economically and cost-effectively at the local level? Should an all news network be tried again and what should be different this time than NBC's, AP's, CNN's and TRN's past efforts?

It seems there have been too major pitfalls for attempts at all news in the past. Stations that relied on network feeds weren't local enough. And other stations that had more people than they really needed. All news stations like the late KBTR, Denver operated successfully with three presenters (alternating half-hours on the air and prep the rest of the time), an editor and one outside reporter in a weekday shift. Others have been successful by providing entry-level jobs at just over minimum wage for aspiring radio news people. An arrangement with a local TV station can provide additional sound (and even live shots from TV types). Network news feeds can can do the rest. With good management, all news does not have to be more expensive than local-live talk.

There have been recent attempts at all news in both Atlanta and Houston. Atlanta cut back the news blocks and added talk shows. Houston is mired at under a 1 share in 25-54. The Dallas all-newser is not doing any too well, sitting at 20th in 25-54 despite a great clear channel signal and the leadership of CBS. KNX in LA ranks between 25th and 30th in 25-54 as well.

So the issue is that the format is not doing well in many markets, both for newer launches and heritage stations. That makes the question not only how all news can be done so it is not so costly but how can it be done to appeal to more listeners in the sales demos. And I think a lot has to do which how much people need constant news in each market; it certainly seems that the Sunbelt markets have little if any need.

 

[johnbasalla]

Here's the question owners probably ask themselves. While conservative talk is going down ratings-wise, which other talk format can or will do at least well? Some owners would add this question ... "for the same amount of money?". There is lots of local TV news in my area, in fact the Fox affiliate has amongst the highest number of hours per week in the nation. Can this be done on radio? Are or were there any all-news stations on an FM frequency in a rated market?

 

[TheBigA]

In the post-Rush era, is there a place for all news in more radio markets? Are there ways it can be produced more economically and cost-effectively at the local level? Should an all news network be tried again and what should be different this time than NBC's, AP's, CNN's and TRN's past efforts?

I think that was a question Cumulus was attempting to answer with KGO in San Francisco and WYAY-FM in Atlanta. In both cases, they tried the all-news format, hiring an all-local staff, with lots of experience and credibility, and watched what happened. In both cases, the stations have seemed to peak in the mid-1 share area. So I gather they've decided that local news is not for them, because the experiment has not gone much further. They also have access to several national news networks, and could easily go with that. They just did a deal with CNN for news content that they say will be syndicated for local use. They've hired several very experienced program directors with what I assume is the intent of creating some new format for their AM stations that will replace the current news/talk. So at least in terms of that company, there seems to be an interest in new format development. I'm sure the folks at Clear Channel are doing the same, although their problems are a big different.

 

[Avid Listener]

Here's the question owners probably ask themselves. While conservative talk is going down ratings-wise, which other talk format can or will do at least well? Some owners would add this question ... "for the same amount of money?". There is lots of local TV news in my area, in fact the Fox affiliate has amongst the highest number of hours per week in the nation. Can this be done on radio? Are or were there any all-news stations on an FM frequency in a rated market?

There are more questions that they need to answer than those, though those are a good start. They need to ask, "What sort of spoken word format is there a strong desire for in this market that isn't being met?" Then there's, "What are the listening patterns in this market? At what times of day do people turn their radio on and leave it on, and when do they just turn it on for however long it takes them to drive to or from work?" You have to ask, "What talent assets do I have available to me that I can afford? Is there a well-liked local broadcasting personality available who could handle whatever format fits the first question?"

I'm inclined to think that just airing news reports cannot be done well enough to compete with all the alternative sources of news at a cost that would make the format profitable. But maybe a local magazine format news / talk / infotainment hybrid could work. It would be a mix of news reports, interviews with interesting guests, possibly "how-to" segments, maybe even live musical performances. The closest thing already on the air to what I'm describing is Terry Gross' Fresh Air on public radio. Her show is somewhat high-brow, since it's on public radio. What I'm suggesting is taking that basic concept and watering it down the way that the cable networks like A&E or the History Channel watered down public television shows into something with more mass market appeal. Another way of looking at it could be upgrading the old "Monitor" program for the 21st Century.

I don't see much market for syndicating entire days of programming, but I think there would be a market for syndicating individual content segments. As I see this sort of content, it would be a mix of different segments tied together with a local host or host team, who would also handle some local content like interviews or call-ins with questions for interview guests. Other segments would be dropped in. Over the course of the day, depending on local listening habits, some segments would be repeated.

If done right, I think this could be a real winner. If done badly, it'll bomb terribly.

 

[FredLeonard]

As long as we are cataloging recent failed attempts at all news, Merlin should be included, as well.

At the same time, public radio news and information stations with morning and afternoon drive news blocks and news-oriented talk in between seems to be doing very well in many markets (even becoming the strongest news/talk station in some of them). Commercial radio relegated classical and jazz formats to non-commercial stations. Maybe news, too.

In scripture, miracles and active divine intervention ended 2,000 years ago. In radio, launching successful all news formats ended about 40 years ago. Trivia question: What's the most recent successful all news launch?

What I'm hearing from you all is nothing new, all news or any other form of spoken word, is going to work - at least not on AM and not now.

 

[TheBigA]

What I'm hearing from you all is nothing new, all news or any other form of spoken word, is going to work - at least not on AM and not now.

Maybe...but I'm always hopeful that someone will come up with something that will become the next big thing.

The thing public radio has managed to do, perhaps accidently, perhaps by design, is create a BRAND. Even if a station is doing local content, or using independent programming, it all has a SOUND to it that is recognizable and identifiable. That may be what the next big thing will have to do if it wants to compete.

 

[FredLeonard]

Maybe...but I'm always hopeful that someone will come up with something that will become the next big thing.

The thing public radio has managed to do, perhaps accidently, perhaps by design, is create a BRAND. Even if a station is doing local content, or using independent programming, it all has a SOUND to it that is recognizable and identifiable. That may be what the next big thing will have to do if it wants to compete.

Seems like that has been the case as long as we have had format radio.

 

[DavidEduardo]

In scripture, miracles and active divine intervention ended 2,000 years ago. In radio, launching successful all news formats ended about 40 years ago. Trivia question: What's the most recent successful all news launch?

In my memory and within the United States, it might be WUNO, NotiUno, San Juan, PR, in about 1983. Went to #1 against heritage all news station WKAQ. By the mid-90's, though, it went to a morning news block and talk the rest of the day. WKAQ followed a few years later. At present WKAQ is #3 12+ and WUNO is 6th in this 118 station market. Of course, in Puerto Rico politics is the national sport so talk works very well: WKAQ is #6 in 25-54, too, and the station is 100% live and local.

There are quite a few launches in the last 25 to 30 years in English. I can't think of any that are "successful".

You rightly mention Merlin's NY, Chi and Philadelphia stations. Also there is Cumulus's Atlanta effort and the change of KGO in San Francisco to all news.

 

[DavidEduardo]

What I'm suggesting is taking that basic concept and watering it down the way that the cable networks like A&E or the History Channel watered down public television shows into something with more mass market appeal. Another way of looking at it could be upgrading the old "Monitor" program for the 21st Century.

In my previous post I mentioned newser WKAQ in Puerto Rico which transitioned to a talk station as news failed to bring in the sales demos. When this was happening, I recommended doing a news-based talk show with a reporter and commentator both giving the news and adding perspective and analysis. This was supplemented by a group of experts who could be called on the phone to participate. The numbers increased, with the show getting 10 shares consistently in a very crowded market.

I also worked with the Emmis station in Argentina from 1999 to 2005 and we had similar concept of an anchor desk with different cast members, all focused on the news. There were 7 fulltime desk positions, including two news readers, commentary, sports, weather, political analysis and even a humorist. They were backed by 25 reporters and writers. It got about a 30 share in a 280 station local market.

 

[johnbasalla]

I believe Divine Intervention continues in some circumstances. The Founders of this Republic wrote some of the most important and inspiring words ever, yet, as the Rev./Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. pointed out, they didn't live up to the courage of the creed. Divine Intervention may have played a part in helping them craft these documents.

 

[johnbasalla]

Just so everybody is aware, I was responding to a previous post in this thread. I should have made that clear. Sorry.

One other thought about an All-News format. They need to make sure it is not too repetitive. That was a criticism I remember hearing about the AP Radio Network's news format of long ago. Another thought was that the news stories were presented in a way that kind of felt/sounded random. I don't exactly know what that means, but I remember friend of mine who worked a station that ran a heavy amount of AP radio's all-news service mentioning that.

 

[Avid Listener]

Just so everybody is aware, I was responding to a previous post in this thread. I should have made that clear. Sorry.

One other thought about an All-News format. They need to make sure it is not too repetitive. That was a criticism I remember hearing about the AP Radio Network's news format of long ago. Another thought was that the news stories were presented in a way that kind of felt/sounded random. I don't exactly know what that means, but I remember friend of mine who worked a station that ran a heavy amount of AP radio's all-news service mentioning that.

The problem with any all news format is that the news itself tends to be repetitive. The simple truth is that not all that much happens that's newsworthy to put on the radio. On top of that, most news listeners just want to hear the latest headlines. If a headline grabs their attention, then they'll go online to find the details. That's why stations like KQV in Pittsburgh used the slogan, "Give us 20 minutes, we'll give you the world". What they didn't mention was that when the 20 minutes were up, they'd just start over again. The stories tended to be reported at random because the news tended to happen at random. So, no matter when you turned your radio on and hit the button for KQV, you had a fresh 20 minutes of news to listen to, then you reached the "that's where I came in" point as the cycle repeated.

 

[FredLeonard]

I believe Divine Intervention continues in some circumstances. The Founders of this Republic wrote some of the most important and inspiring words ever, yet, as the Rev./Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. pointed out, they didn't live up to the courage of the creed. Divine Intervention may have played a part in helping them craft these documents.

Anyone can claim to be "divinely inspired." Many have. We don't see any outright miracles. When George Washington crossed the Delaware River, he used boats. He did not part the river like Moses. Nor did he make the sun "stand still" to finish a crucial battle. And the troops in Valley Forge went hungry; no loaves and fishes to feed everybody.

The founding fathers were "inspired" by the political philosophers of The Enlightenment and many of those "inspiring" words were written by deists, who had a "clockmaker" concept of god (get it started and leave it alone).

The constitution is a mess and should be scrapped. The parliamentary system is far superior to what Adams and Madison came up with. Clearly, these guys were poor political theorists and even worse lawyers.

 

[FredLeonard]

Back the topic: If the news format has a future, it is probably not the "Give Us 22 Minutes" style pioneered by Group W, McLendon and Arundel but more of a news magazine style - somewhere between CBS and NPR under normal circumstances and going wall to wall when, as Stephen Sondheim put it, "spit hits the fan."

 

[TheBigA]

Back the topic: If the news format has a future, it is probably not the "Give Us 22 Minutes" style pioneered by Group W, McLendon and Arundel but more of a news magazine style - somewhere between CBS and NPR under normal circumstances and going wall to wall when, as Stephen Sondheim put it, "spit hits the fan."

If so, it's too expensive to be done locally...as NPR has demonstrated.

 

[FredLeonard]

If so, it's too expensive to be done locally...as NPR has demonstrated.

NPR has not demonstrated any such thing.

Actually, any major or large market public radio station could do locally-produced drive-time news magazines using expanded local content and making selective use of material from outside sources. Costs would be comparable to what stations pay now for NPR's shows and a local news operation. But ME and ATC are so well established as "brands" they'd probably experience audience blow-back (and another station in the market would pick up the shows and their audiences).

CBS in Philly did drive time news magazine shows, locally-oriented and comparable in quality to NPR's product.

 

[TheBigA]

CBS in Philly did drive time news magazine shows, locally-oriented and comparable in quality to NPR's product.

Recently?

 

[FredLeonard]

Still waiting to hear how NPR demonstrated how in-depth all news is too expensive to do locally.

 

[TheBigA]

Still waiting to hear how NPR demonstrated how in-depth all news is too expensive to do locally.

OK, you skipped my question too.

NPR proves it by providing local stations with the bulk of their magazine programming. Only a handful of the most successful stations do their own local magazines. NPR's magazine shows combine straight reporting with mini-documentaries, very production intensive, often taking a week of work (writing, reporting, editing, mixing) with a team of three (reporter, producer, engineer) for 10 minutes of airtime.

So when did CBS Philly do a local magazine show that was comparable in quality to NPR?