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60s/70s Classic Hits? What about 60s/70s OLDIES???
- Thread starter VODood
- Start date
VODood said:
I don't understand your point.
Are you objecting to a blend of music on one particular station that brands itself as classic hits? Which one in which market? Almost every oldies or classic hits station has a different playlist.
Or are you objecting to the name because you would rather the format still be called "oldies?"
O
OldiesCat
Guest
Classic Hits
I think we have another "hanger on" who is obsessed with continuing to use the word "Oldies" on the radio when most stations are wising-up and moving away from that brand name.
I think we have another "hanger on" who is obsessed with continuing to use the word "Oldies" on the radio when most stations are wising-up and moving away from that brand name.
"I think we have another "hanger on" who is obsessed with continuing to use the word "Oldies" on the radio when most stations are wising-up and moving away from that brand name."
The popular use of the term "Oldies" to identify the radio format didn't really start until the late 80s or early 90s. When top 40 stations played older former-chart hits in the 60s and 70s as part of their format, the songs were always "goldens," or "solid gold." In the SF Bay Area, the first full-format Oldies stations in the mid 70s and into the 80s were "California Gold"on KNEW-AM, and later "Rock and Roll Classics," on KSFO/KYA-FM. At the time (early 80s), I remember the PD of KSFO/KYA saying he would never use the word "Oldies" because it sounded...old. In the early 90s, KFRC switched formats and started using "Oldies" in their imaging. I was surprised.
The reason the word is being shunned now is even more serious than in the 80s, and it's obvious - the sales staff on Oldies stations are fighting the perception that their listeners are outside of the desirable 25-54 demographic. Their job is that much harder if their station's image slogan screams "OLD."
As I remember, the term started with "Oldies,but Goodies" and it was coined by Art Labeaux in the 60s. Art would buy brokered time on low-rated Los Angeles AM stations to sell his 50s record collections.
The popular use of the term "Oldies" to identify the radio format didn't really start until the late 80s or early 90s. When top 40 stations played older former-chart hits in the 60s and 70s as part of their format, the songs were always "goldens," or "solid gold." In the SF Bay Area, the first full-format Oldies stations in the mid 70s and into the 80s were "California Gold"on KNEW-AM, and later "Rock and Roll Classics," on KSFO/KYA-FM. At the time (early 80s), I remember the PD of KSFO/KYA saying he would never use the word "Oldies" because it sounded...old. In the early 90s, KFRC switched formats and started using "Oldies" in their imaging. I was surprised.
The reason the word is being shunned now is even more serious than in the 80s, and it's obvious - the sales staff on Oldies stations are fighting the perception that their listeners are outside of the desirable 25-54 demographic. Their job is that much harder if their station's image slogan screams "OLD."
As I remember, the term started with "Oldies,but Goodies" and it was coined by Art Labeaux in the 60s. Art would buy brokered time on low-rated Los Angeles AM stations to sell his 50s record collections.
F
fang39
Guest
The venerable WCBS-FM in NYC used the word "oldies" in their jingle packages as far back as I can remember and I began listening from their launch in 1973. One in particular was performed in Doo-Wop style and went "101....CBS-FM....101....CBS-FM....We play your favorite Oldies...CBS-FM"
While I can understand the "logic" of marketing the sound as "Classic Hits," I don't view the use of "Oldies" as a negative. It's more like a term of endearment referring to a sound that takes listeners back to a special moment or period in their lives. It creates a seminal connection...a bond between the listener and music/radio station. That's the point that the advertising community and the programmers that follow them like sheep to slaughter will never understand. Last time I checked, people listen to the radio for entertainment...music and information....NOT COMMERCIALS! Radio continues to chase a segment of the market that has already abandoned them, while they in turn, do the same to their loyal listeners. As I mentioned on previous posts, someday, somewhere, someone will have the vision, bravado and capital to buck the current trends and give radio back to the people.
BTW, as a Radio and Mobile DJ for almost 30 years, I would regularly hear clients and their guests tell me they "love the Oldies." Can't say anyone has ever or will ever ask me to play some "Classic Hits."
While I can understand the "logic" of marketing the sound as "Classic Hits," I don't view the use of "Oldies" as a negative. It's more like a term of endearment referring to a sound that takes listeners back to a special moment or period in their lives. It creates a seminal connection...a bond between the listener and music/radio station. That's the point that the advertising community and the programmers that follow them like sheep to slaughter will never understand. Last time I checked, people listen to the radio for entertainment...music and information....NOT COMMERCIALS! Radio continues to chase a segment of the market that has already abandoned them, while they in turn, do the same to their loyal listeners. As I mentioned on previous posts, someday, somewhere, someone will have the vision, bravado and capital to buck the current trends and give radio back to the people.
BTW, as a Radio and Mobile DJ for almost 30 years, I would regularly hear clients and their guests tell me they "love the Oldies." Can't say anyone has ever or will ever ask me to play some "Classic Hits."
fang39 said:
It is actually quite common among those under 50 to find that the "oldies" term refers to "music for people older than I am" and, thus, carries a stigma of making thoose who listen to it feel "old". A common research technique when playing format samples is to ask if a music blend is for younger, older or the same as you....
The club, or mobile, experience, is irrelevant to radio. It's a different "mentality"
It's not unusual that there is no recognition of the "classic hits" term as it it has not been commonly used for long... while "oldies" is a nearly 40-year-old term.
"Oldies" was commonly used at least as far back as the 1950s to refer to any non-current song. In 1957, a song from 1956 was called an "oldie". The problem with keeping the term is that they stopped that practice around 1970, if not before and you have to be about 50 to make the connection.
O
OldiesCat
Guest
Oldies
Tom Kent uses the term "Classic Top 40" on his evening show these days.
DavidEduardo said:
Tom Kent uses the term "Classic Top 40" on his evening show these days.
M
Mr. DUBbonet
Guest
I like the Oldies format as well but understand that the word "old" is not well thought of in our society. Even people in the upper demos don't want to think of themselves as old. I like the Tom kent "Classic Top 40" slogan...it says what it is. What does it matter what we call it? As long as the music stays on the radio. If the term Oldies places limitations on the format and the amount of audience it can gain and Classic Top 40 doesn't...then just go with Classic Top 40 or Classic Hits. We are a nation of aging baby boomers but people don't want to remind themselves of it. The term Oldies makes people feel old...it didn't 20 years ago but then we were all 35. We want to stay younger...longer. No big deal...just keep the Oldies out of it but still play the 60's-70's hits!
O
OldiesCat
Guest
Oldies
The problem with the term "Oldies" isn't that it evokes some reminder or suggestion of being "old". Just like any strong brand name that very clearly stands for something, "Oldies" basically means sixties music; for somebody in their mid 40s, for example, "Oldies" music is at least ten years older than the set of music they tend to like best. Tom Kent uses the term "Classic Top 40" and that may be the best name yet I've heard for today's "oldies" type format that plays a little 60s, mostly 70s and a little 80s.
Mr. DUBbonet said:
The problem with the term "Oldies" isn't that it evokes some reminder or suggestion of being "old". Just like any strong brand name that very clearly stands for something, "Oldies" basically means sixties music; for somebody in their mid 40s, for example, "Oldies" music is at least ten years older than the set of music they tend to like best. Tom Kent uses the term "Classic Top 40" and that may be the best name yet I've heard for today's "oldies" type format that plays a little 60s, mostly 70s and a little 80s.
Well, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'm absolutely unconvinced as to why advertisers shouldn't care about 55+. They need to realize that there are people well under 55 who like late 50's and early 60's music. To me, it seems that oldies stations in smaller markets (such as Ventura, CA) have a better chance of surviving is that they rely on local advertising (in this case, KVEN-AM 1450 "The Boomer"). I love that station and would cry a river if it were to drop the format. So would oldies fans all over that market.
So try all you want. You're NOT going to convince me.
So try all you want. You're NOT going to convince me.
Mastaclocksetta said:
Most do not target 55+ because of a very simmple fact: the older a person is, the more difficult it is to convince them to try a new brand or product or service. A lifetime of experience teaches older perople to be more cautious. A lifetime as a consumer establishes loyalty to favorite brands. And a generally more conservative fiscal attitude as seniors reach retirement age makes "what if" trial sampling less likely.
Most American goods and services are designed (portion, packagfing, taste tests, utility, etc., etc.) with younger demos in mind becaue the cost of marketing to older people is high. Often, it is so high that there is no profit on the sale. Of course, there are exceptions with products generally consumed only by senioors, where there is no easier to sell market.
Advertisers don't give a darn about RADIO, let alone radio formats. They care about sales. The ad agency decides, with client approval, the media mix. 55+ products are generally not taken to radio; direct mail, specialty magazines, etc., and specialty cable are preferred.
You are right that in very small, especailly non -rated, markets, local advertisers are not as focused on the specifics of an ad campaign. However, KVEN is 13th out of 17 stations in the market in ratings, and 14th in billing. One follows the other: if the ratings are low, even if an advertiser does not buy by ratings, it means that very few are listening and that means not many people will listen to an ad and buy.
Unless you are a brand manager or marketing manager, it's not really important in the big picturre if you believe this or not. The fact is that od-leaning stations don't do well because most advertisers can't get a decent ROI off seniors.
O
OldiesCat
Guest
55+
"Why" doesn't matter. They don't, period. Pretty simple, and the fact that you can't be convinced has absolutely no influence on the discussion.
Mastaclocksetta said:
"Why" doesn't matter. They don't, period. Pretty simple, and the fact that you can't be convinced has absolutely no influence on the discussion.
Remember that 106.1 now KMEL in San Francisco once had the calls KFMS and played oldies too.
I
indyradioguy
Guest
It's not unusual that there is no recognition of the "classic hits" term as it it has not been commonly used for long... while "oldies" is a nearly 40-year-old term.
BUT in some cases a "classic hits" station will play more classic rock while some play 60's, 70's and 80's. I think for many oldies is still a term that works. I know of "oldies" stations that beat the pants off classic hits stations hands down 12+. What gets lost in translation is when a station uses a format off the bird that is an "oldies" format calling it "the greatest hits of all time" but markets it as classic hits. There is a gray area when the formats blend that can make listeners wonder what is what.
BUT in some cases a "classic hits" station will play more classic rock while some play 60's, 70's and 80's. I think for many oldies is still a term that works. I know of "oldies" stations that beat the pants off classic hits stations hands down 12+. What gets lost in translation is when a station uses a format off the bird that is an "oldies" format calling it "the greatest hits of all time" but markets it as classic hits. There is a gray area when the formats blend that can make listeners wonder what is what.
Remain "unconvinced" all you'd like.
But "perception" is "reality".
I agree...(as I've stated on some other board threads here) there are studies which indicate it's worth still targeting boomers with advertising. Do a google search on the topic and you'll find them. I tend to think advertisers make a big mistake when they totally abandon boomers on ad buys.
But, like the old saying goes: "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." And that horse is just not thirsty for boomer audiences anymore.
And, that's the sad reality for oldies stations.
But "perception" is "reality".
I agree...(as I've stated on some other board threads here) there are studies which indicate it's worth still targeting boomers with advertising. Do a google search on the topic and you'll find them. I tend to think advertisers make a big mistake when they totally abandon boomers on ad buys.
But, like the old saying goes: "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." And that horse is just not thirsty for boomer audiences anymore.
And, that's the sad reality for oldies stations.
Thats why internet and satellite radio are growing- you get what you pay for..... you pay nothing for terrestrial radio, and you dont get much programming for aging baby boomers. You pay something for XM and Sirius and you get better choices. Life moves on, move with it and find the alternatives for your fav programming.
O
OldiesCat
Guest
60s/70s OLDIES???
"Oldies" isn't just a radio term- it's a well-defined brand name that stands for music from the '50s and '60s. '70s music is not "Oldies" and never will be, no matter how long you try and call them "Oldies".
If you're in your mid/late 40s, your most loved music comes from the mid-'70s to early-'80s. "Oldies" represents music that's older than a 47 year-old's music tastes and which is why it won't work for stations centered in the mid-'70s.
indyradioguy said:
"Oldies" isn't just a radio term- it's a well-defined brand name that stands for music from the '50s and '60s. '70s music is not "Oldies" and never will be, no matter how long you try and call them "Oldies".
If you're in your mid/late 40s, your most loved music comes from the mid-'70s to early-'80s. "Oldies" represents music that's older than a 47 year-old's music tastes and which is why it won't work for stations centered in the mid-'70s.
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