latest IBOC interference from Seattle

It sounds as if AM 1090, whatever the calls letters are nowadays, just switched on AM-HD to their signal a couple of months ago. Ever since, they are blotting out reception of stations two positions away on either side of them. Most notably, on the little 500w AM daytimer station on 1110 from Whidbey Island, from Seattle all the way to the Canadian border. That's gotta bring an end to their Punjabi time-brokered deal as soon as that contract expires! The ringing noise makes it unlistenable pretty much anywhere South Asians might live around here or across the border. Trying to listen to 1110 now is something like what it must have been like in E Europe when the Russians were jamming out Radio Free Europe!

Not that I listen to 1110 much, but I first noticed the "IBOC whine" two notches down from 1090 over the signal of CFAX 1070 from Victoria, which I do like to listen to from time to time. They're a really good example of s full service AM station that is important to its community. Remember that? But since they put out 10,000 watts with a signal that is not directionalized away from the Americans during the daytime, they have a better chance at overpowering the interference from 1090 in parts of their coverage area in Snohomish and Skagit counties. But still, I've found the noise from 1090 on 1110 is overwhelming, and it doesn't get any better the further you get north of Seattle. I heard it whining on 1110 all the way up to the Canadian border at Blaine!

I'm also not happy how our friends in Everett make it pretty much impossible to listen to 1360 from Tacoma, 1400 from Bremerton and 1540 from Bellevue over large parts of those stations' coverage area, thanks to their two IBOC signals from 1380 and 1520. I really don't think that's a sound strategy for improving your share, by jamming out the signals of nearby stations who program to different specialized audiences from your own. Is it really helping to possibly attract a handful listeners who might have HD car radios with an IBOC-enhanced AM signal? Is there really no FCC regulation to prevent this level of interference to their neighbors on the AM band? I think driving away potential listeners to other stations with this much IBOC interference just makes the AM band an even less-desirable entity that it already is.

Goldilocks94941 said:

I really don't think that's a sound strategy for improving your share, by jamming out the signals of nearby stations who program to different specialized audiences from your own.

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What makes you think it's their "strategy?" In point of fact, they're using an FCC approved device. I'm not saying the interference isn't happening. Just questioning that it's actually part of some "strategy." I have no reason to think it is.

I would like to contribute my $0.02 to this issue...

I think its great that AM radio stations are trying to improve the AM band with new broadcasting concepts, but I really don't think HD radio is the answer. While you may argue that HD AM radio may improve reception, it does not have anything to do with range. If I wanted to listen to KIRO 710 in Portland at night, the HD IBOC wouldn't do anything to improve the reception. In the end, the signal that gets to your receiving devise is the signal that you have to work with.

I'm really not a fan of HD radio. I don't really care for having adjacent frequencies being used up. I personally think that C-QUAM AM radio works better than AM HD. The audio sounds extremely crisp and clean, there are no flutters once you have a stereo lock, and the adjacent frequencies are still open. I loved listening to KYCW - Classic Country 1090 when they used to run AM stereo.

As for the strategy you speak of, I am going to have to disagree. I really do not think that KNFQ and CBS radio think that using an HD signal will be beneficial. The people who listen to 1110am probably wouldn't have an interest in tuning into KFNQ anyway. Unfortunately, this is just an example of a powerful radio station stepping over a station that doesn't have the juice to keep up.

fordranger797 said:

I would like to contribute my $0.02 to this issue...

I think its great that AM radio stations are trying to improve the AM band with new broadcasting concepts, but I really don't think HD radio is the answer. While you may argue that HD AM radio may improve reception, it does not have anything to do with range. If I wanted to listen to KIRO 710 in Portland at night, the HD IBOC wouldn't do anything to improve the reception. In the end, the signal that gets to your receiving devise is the signal that you have to work with.

I'm really not a fan of HD radio. I don't really care for having adjacent frequencies being used up. I personally think that C-QUAM AM radio works better than AM HD. The audio sounds extremely crisp and clean, there are no flutters once you have a stereo lock, and the adjacent frequencies are still open. I loved listening to KYCW - Classic Country 1090 when they used to run AM stereo.

As for the strategy you speak of, I am going to have to disagree. I really do not think that KNFQ and CBS radio think that using an HD signal will be beneficial. The people who listen to 1110am probably wouldn't have an interest in tuning into KFNQ anyway. Unfortunately, this is just an example of a powerful radio station stepping over a station that doesn't have the juice to keep up.

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Stations still use HD!? I thought that died out.. Even CC sold their Funky Monkey 104.9 HD to a Russian talk show over nights back in the day with Reggae throughout the day.. As far as AM-HD, I was at a SBE meeting a few years back when an engineer at Q13 FOX called it out saying "HD radio is a waste of time and money, I give a couple of years.." Soon enough, HD radio commercials stopped airing and almost all new cars don't come with HD radio anymore.

on_air_dont_care said:

Soon enough, HD radio commercials stopped airing and almost all new cars don't come with HD radio anymore.

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I don't recall that new cars EVER came with HD. At least not standard.

Let us not forget the complications that come along with HD broadcasting. You would have to add additional processing to the studio board and monitor to allow anyone in the studio to hear through the headphones without the HD delay impeding the broadcast.

TheBigA said:

What makes you think it's their "strategy?" In point of fact, they're using an FCC approved device. I'm not saying the interference isn't happening. Just questioning that it's actually part of some "strategy." I have no reason to think it is.

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Because there's a conspiracy theory behind any move in Seattle radio. Or else station owners don't know what they're doing. Or else it's the evil corporate man. I think that about covers it.

TheBigA said:

I don't recall that new cars EVER came with HD. At least not standard.

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Actually a few post-2010 have come with HD standard.

Mike Brewer said:

Actually a few post-2010 have come with HD standard.

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I think Honda manufactures most of their new cars with HD radio capability, an interesting contrast from how American models used to be the only cars with the fancy RDS technology.

I really don't know why where is a spot for RDS data entry on production networks these days.

fordranger797 said:

Let us not forget the complications that come along with HD broadcasting. You would have to add additional processing to the studio board and monitor to allow anyone in the studio to hear through the headphones without the HD delay impeding the broadcast.

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Actually, that's a fairly common practice now. By the time you add the latency from a digital studio, a digital STL (maybe more than one), a digital processor and (though I don't know this for sure) possibly a digital exciter, there's no way you could listen to yourself over the air. Some stations can have several seconds of delay, making the on-air signal pretty much useless in the studio.

Some stations are set up to put the air signal on their studio speakers and a separately processed local feed to the announcer phones, if the station feels the need to monitor off-air at all.

A couple of larger stations I watch over don't have air monitors in the studio at all. The engineers get any alarms and the announcers are, generally, blissfully unaware of any glitches that might occur. I suppose that might be worthwhile in some situations... a simulcast comes to mind as one.

Grounded Grid said:

A couple of larger stations I watch over don't have air monitors in the studio at all. The engineers get any alarms and the announcers are, generally, blissfully unaware of any glitches that might occur. I suppose that might be worthwhile in some situations... a simulcast comes to mind as one.

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That's very interesting; I thought every station would have a monitor set up to hear whats going on. I couldn't imagine it working any other way.

Wow, a lot of outdated assumptions being made here.
HD Radio is now standard in more vehicles and being used more creatively than ever by broadcasters.

"16 million cars are now equipped with HD Radio Technology"
http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=9c7c7c359fa3e31d2fdd558cd&id=5f53bb06c2&e=abac3c9eddhttp://

That's a lot of receivers. You never know who's listening when, and under what circumstances. That's true of all radio, not just HD Radio. The fact that this is the digital method of radio distribution chosen, and approved by the FCC means that owners, and engineers need to adopt and support it. If you truly want to distribute content to where your listeners are, you need to be everywhere.

"HD Radio Technology is or will be available as a factory installed feature from 35 automotive brands including Acura, Audi, Bentley, BMW, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Ford, GMC, Honda, Hyundai, Infiniti, Jaguar, Jeep, Kia, Land Rover, Lexus, Lincoln, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, MINI USA, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Porsche, Ram, Rolls-Royce, Scion, SRT, Subaru, Tesla, Toyota, Volkswagen, and Volvo."
http://www.ibiquity.com/press_room/news_releases/2014/1644

This is from iBiquity. Yes, it's a press release, but those auto-manufactures wouldn't let their brand be tied to something that could potentially alter their brand reputations. Again, most of the modern vehicles of today come standard with HD Radio, Satellite Radio and internet-ready configurations. It's all about what the consumer wants, and when they want it.

In fact, "40% of New Car Buyers Now Enjoying HD Radio Experience"
http://www.ibiquity.com/press_room/news_releases/2014/1639

In the broadcast industry, 40% is not a "little" number. It's actually a pretty huge statistic worth paying attention to.

Have YOU listened to Seattle HD radio?

TalentTrade said:

In the broadcast industry, 40% is not a "little" number. It's actually a pretty huge statistic worth paying attention to.

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And yet none of those HD stations ever show up in any ratings reports.

If HD radio had an audience, radio companies would be selling it. They aren't.

You know what they say about people who believe their own press releases?

I don't miss being in the shadow of KRKO and KKXA. 1520 IBOC used to destroy KFBK 1530 from Sacramento at night, which pre-KKXA, was a blaster all over Seattle and the Western Washington area at night - and even very weakly during the day in winter! Sometimes Sacramento news is interesting. After all, it is the state capitol of California! Then it also destroyed KGA 1510 as well - where Spokane Indians baseball games are played on.

-crainbebo

I have little problem with HD interference on the AM band. I realise it is an attempt to reinvigorate the AM band, as well as over the air broadcasting. So I can live with it for that reason.

Here I can hear IBOC from KSL, KXA and KRKO. At my location, those stations' IBOC is tolerable.

With KFNQ, it's a bit of a different story.

I understand that stations need to make money. And I sometimes listen to Ferrell at night on KFNQ, as well as a couple other CBS sports stations.

But with 1090, as soon as they switched on the HD, it seems like the night signal became stronger.

Maybe it's just the HD blast making it sound that way. Or maybe they did a lot more work on the transmitter or something. Here, even in outside of KFNQ's main lobe, the HD is audible over part of 1070 CFAX's signal on some of my radios. And KFNQ pushes a lot of their signal north. Even though it looks like KFNQ's signal skirts the Victoria area, I wonder if that HD is reducing some of CFAX's night time audience.

I listen to HD radio almost exclusively when driving as it is in my main vehicle.

Still some assumptions going on here. KZOK HD-2 now has some commercials on it. not sure if they are selling them or if they are bonus but they exist.

I find Seattle HD radio to be quite good as a matter of fact. No more fading away analog when listening to FM while going behind a hill which there are plenty of.

The problem now with HD radio is listening to it in places OTHER THAN Seattle, like eastern WA. That is where nobody is paying attention to time and audio level alignment or audio quality.

When done right, with the time aligned and the audio matched, HD on FM can sound better than FM analog and eliminate multipath reception issues.

AM HD is another story, I have yet to hear an AM HD station that sounds as good as the analog. it is NOT and never will be CD quality at 32kbps. I don't care about DXing but I do care about quality audio even on AM and that can't be done with HD as it now stands. Might as well turn those sidebands off.

Except for KNWY, there is no HD in Yakima. Thank goodness! I don't need any more interference on my dial as it is. Listening to stations like CHQM and CHLG was close to impossible due to local or semi-local IBOC - unless you were in Arlington.

-crainbebo

notalent said:

I listen to HD radio almost exclusively when driving as it is in my main vehicle.

Still some assumptions going on here. KZOK HD-2 now has some commercials on it. not sure if they are selling them or if they are bonus but they exist.

I find Seattle HD radio to be quite good as a matter of fact. No more fading away analog when listening to FM while going behind a hill which there are plenty of.

The problem now with HD radio is listening to it in places OTHER THAN Seattle, like eastern WA. That is where nobody is paying attention to time and audio level alignment or audio quality.

When done right, with the time aligned and the audio matched, HD on FM can sound better than FM analog and eliminate multipath reception issues.

AM HD is another story, I have yet to hear an AM HD station that sounds as good as the analog. it is NOT and never will be CD quality at 32kbps. I don't care about DXing but I do care about quality audio even on AM and that can't be done with HD as it now stands. Might as well turn those sidebands off.

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I had an aftermarket HD radio in one of my cars and took it out because of the constant switching from HD to analog on some stations (Hubbard stations for the most part, but some CC stations did it too).

850 in Tacoma was on HD for a bit and while it didn't come close to FM quality, it was IMO a lot better than wideband AM or even AM stereo.

Mike Brewer said:

I had an aftermarket HD radio in one of my cars and took it out because of the constant switching from HD to analog on some stations (Hubbard stations for the most part, but some CC stations did it too).

850 in Tacoma was on HD for a bit and while it didn't come close to FM quality, it was IMO a lot better than wideband AM or even AM stereo.

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You actually made a comment without being rude...see you can do it.