SonicAl said:
true enough.
$250K+ is still a bit steep for a 'second banana'.
im sure they could find equal talent for much less.
bigger profit margins!!!!
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true enough.
$250K+ is still a bit steep for a 'second banana'.
im sure they could find equal talent for much less.
bigger profit margins!!!!
$3 Million contract? Was that per year or for a number of years? I would have to imagine that bonuses make up a decent percentage of a morning show's comp for hitting targets, no? With that kind of money wouldn't some retire after a few short years? That's a liability for the owners.
S
spilot113
Guest
dumber than a box of hair said:Just because someone is in the public eye doesn't make the terms of a private agreement between them and their employer (OKA their salary) subject to public scrutiny.
...but the public has no right to know it.
While the public may not have the right to know it.....
They do have the right to talk about it if they so choose.
People have the right to talk about anything they want.
B
BearFur
Guest
ArtSpooner said:oaktree said:I don't think it's any of my business to know. Not even your salary.
Looking forward to post #2.
I agree Oaktree. That is a pretty nervy post, especially for his(or her) first one. He phrases it like it's an order.
The way it is set up, it looks like he/she works for some company that wants to know this info and they copied it into a post.
With all the sanctimoniousness in this thread, you all neglected to pose the toughest question:
How much do the owners make, and how badly are the employees being ripped off?
How much do the owners make, and how badly are the employees being ripped off?
You sound pretty bitter. That's a shame.
As an owner, let me ask you these easy questions ... is there a problem with you on how much I make? If you and I should meet for an interview, please bring that up.
Secondly, show me one employee who is actually being "ripped off" and I'll show you a, employee working for a "job."
No one is forcing you to work for whatever pay you're offered and, rightfully so. If you don't like it, don't take the gig if offered. I won't ever rip you off. But I will make certain that my business can afford to pay you what the job pays ... not what you think it's worth. If you think different, there are 14,000 other radio station's for you to knock doors. You obviously have never worked in a radio station and if you did, work for minimum wage. That, too, is a shame. Why not do a job elsewhere that either pays better, or do another job in radio that will pay you better? Are you qualified?
Third, what do you think you're worth, what experience do you have? Better yet, you should buy a radio station and see how you'd do it when it comes time to pay people, make a dime for yourself and be successful in your community. I pay my staffs before I pay myself. I don't much like your insinuation. We're all no "mega-conglomerates" that people like you take "what you can get" and then complain about it.
I talk with people everyday who have received a bad deal, been fired in a bad economy or who have blown too many chances to make it in the scheme of things. I listen and understand how they feel. But I highly resent you saying that owners "rip off" employees. If you're so good, you wouldn't be working for what you obviously don't think is "fair." That's your problem for taking the job in the first place. And, yes, there are poor and worse owners. But no one twists your arm to take a job you don't want and you don't blame "owners" who, like me, bust butt to take care of quite a few families whose survival depends on our stations doing well, producing well and having team players who work to the highest standard possible for their success first.
You need a slight attitude readjustment.
As an owner, let me ask you these easy questions ... is there a problem with you on how much I make? If you and I should meet for an interview, please bring that up.
Secondly, show me one employee who is actually being "ripped off" and I'll show you a, employee working for a "job."
No one is forcing you to work for whatever pay you're offered and, rightfully so. If you don't like it, don't take the gig if offered. I won't ever rip you off. But I will make certain that my business can afford to pay you what the job pays ... not what you think it's worth. If you think different, there are 14,000 other radio station's for you to knock doors. You obviously have never worked in a radio station and if you did, work for minimum wage. That, too, is a shame. Why not do a job elsewhere that either pays better, or do another job in radio that will pay you better? Are you qualified?
Third, what do you think you're worth, what experience do you have? Better yet, you should buy a radio station and see how you'd do it when it comes time to pay people, make a dime for yourself and be successful in your community. I pay my staffs before I pay myself. I don't much like your insinuation. We're all no "mega-conglomerates" that people like you take "what you can get" and then complain about it.
I talk with people everyday who have received a bad deal, been fired in a bad economy or who have blown too many chances to make it in the scheme of things. I listen and understand how they feel. But I highly resent you saying that owners "rip off" employees. If you're so good, you wouldn't be working for what you obviously don't think is "fair." That's your problem for taking the job in the first place. And, yes, there are poor and worse owners. But no one twists your arm to take a job you don't want and you don't blame "owners" who, like me, bust butt to take care of quite a few families whose survival depends on our stations doing well, producing well and having team players who work to the highest standard possible for their success first.
You need a slight attitude readjustment.
oaktree said:You sound pretty bitter. That's a shame.
If by "bitter", you mean "defensive of working people", then you're right.
As an owner, let me ask you these easy questions ... is there a problem with you on how much I make? If you and I should meet for an interview, please bring that up.
It depends on whether or not your employees have a problem with their salaries. Can't rape the willing.
Secondly, show me one employee who is actually being "ripped off" and I'll show you a, employee working for a "job."
What does that even mean?
No one is forcing you to work for whatever pay you're offered and, rightfully so. If you don't like it, don't take the gig if offered.
Again, can't rape the willing. You're right.
I won't ever rip you off. But I will make certain that my business can afford to pay you what the job pays ... not what you think it's worth.
If you said this to a current or prospective employee, and they responded by asking to see the budget, would you show it to them, or would you expect them to blindly take your word that their salary is in line with what the station makes?
If you think different, there are 14,000 other radio station's for you to knock doors. You obviously have never worked in a radio station and if you did, work for minimum wage. That, too, is a shame.
It is. I've worked in radio. I was a dumbass 15 year old kid who thought the business was glamorous. Oops.
Why not do a job elsewhere that either pays better, or do another job in radio that will pay you better? Are you qualified?
I host trivia contests at bars, which pays me a sustainable income. Every night, at least one person tells me that I should be on the radio, so I guess I'm doing something right.
Third, what do you think you're worth, what experience do you have? Better yet, you should buy a radio station and see how you'd do it when it comes time to pay people, make a dime for yourself and be successful in your community. I pay my staffs before I pay myself. I don't much like your insinuation. We're all no "mega-conglomerates" that people like you take "what you can get" and then complain about it.
Good for you. I hope your people agree with your assessment.
I talk with people everyday who have received a bad deal, been fired in a bad economy or who have blown too many chances to make it in the scheme of things. I listen and understand how they feel. But I highly resent you saying that owners "rip off" employees. If you're so good, you wouldn't be working for what you obviously don't think is "fair." That's your problem for taking the job in the first place. And, yes, there are poor and worse owners. But no one twists your arm to take a job you don't want and you don't blame "owners" who, like me, bust butt to take care of quite a few families whose survival depends on our stations doing well, producing well and having team players who work to the highest standard possible for their success first.
If you're not blowing smoke, and are a legitimate radio owner (who seem to be few and far between), perhaps we should talk business. AIM me or send me a message.
You need a slight attitude readjustment.
I shouldn't be vigilant?
Keith321 said:Gee, after that lecture....who is it that sounds bitter? ;-)
His reaction is perfectly understandable. Station owners (and for the record, I'm not one) get this all the time, mostly from people who've never owned a business, never met a payroll, never had to deal with egos (and in radio, there are lots of huge ones), never had to draw up budget projections for a year (sometimes longer) in advance, and never had to fork over money they didn't have when a 20-year-old transmitter decides, "that's it, I'm not going to work anymore," thus necessitating a trip to a bank and a chat with a sometimes-sympathetic load officer. Oh yes, I forgot keeping all your paperwork in order lest an FCC inspector finds one sheet of paper missing from your local public file, your EAS test logs incomplete or a tower light out and not reported or repaired. Let's not forget handling all the people in the community who know better than you how to run the station that has your name on the license. For every large group owner, for whom an FCC station license is (*sometimes*) a license to print money, there is a stand-alone owner who is in radio because he or she loves it, not because they're going to get rich from it.
C
choicevoicepro.com
Guest
Will says: If you said this to a current or prospective employee, and they responded by asking to see the budget, would you show it to them, or would you expect them to blindly take your word that their salary is in line with what the station makes?
You think compensation should be based on what the station makes and not what the job should pay? (given the job, market and so on)
OK – fair enough. Then tell me what risk (like the owner) have you taken? What investment other than time have you made?
I’m not sure that talent is even on the same playing field with the owner as far as liability and risk.
Based on your theory that talent should be paid in line with what the station makes – would you be willing to take less if the station made less in a particular year?
And BTW: I’m a former major market air talent… Made plenty of cash through the years (same station same market for 14 years) but still received my 3% increase every year. Regardless if the station’s income was up or down.
You think compensation should be based on what the station makes and not what the job should pay? (given the job, market and so on)
OK – fair enough. Then tell me what risk (like the owner) have you taken? What investment other than time have you made?
I’m not sure that talent is even on the same playing field with the owner as far as liability and risk.
Based on your theory that talent should be paid in line with what the station makes – would you be willing to take less if the station made less in a particular year?
And BTW: I’m a former major market air talent… Made plenty of cash through the years (same station same market for 14 years) but still received my 3% increase every year. Regardless if the station’s income was up or down.
E
ex radio pimp
Guest
I've seen the houses radio execs live in and the cars that they drive, the restaurants they eat in, the parties they go to. They make money. They could reward the talent who attracts the listeners that set the ad rates a little better in many cases. If it were all union the salaries would be at least 25% better. (see: other talent driven industries like TV, Major League Baseball Music and Film) And the owners would still be eating in the same places, going to the same parties, driving the same cars, living in the same houses.
I think they take advantage of air talent because it's really hard to get a radio job. So when an owner says something like "if you don't like it get another job in an other field/don't you have qualifications?/there are 14,000 other stations go find a job there" I take it as being a little bit coy. If you dedicate your life to a specific craft because you love to do it that doesn't make you unqualified to do other things. Some people choose their professions based on passion. Some radio people are addicted to the business. Not that that is the fault of any owner. But the business itself puts the air talent , unless you're Howard Stern or Rush, in a submissive position. There is always another hundred guys who would gladly take your low paying job. Owners know that and logically use it to their advantage. That's free market to an extent but it's also a rip off.
I think they take advantage of air talent because it's really hard to get a radio job. So when an owner says something like "if you don't like it get another job in an other field/don't you have qualifications?/there are 14,000 other stations go find a job there" I take it as being a little bit coy. If you dedicate your life to a specific craft because you love to do it that doesn't make you unqualified to do other things. Some people choose their professions based on passion. Some radio people are addicted to the business. Not that that is the fault of any owner. But the business itself puts the air talent , unless you're Howard Stern or Rush, in a submissive position. There is always another hundred guys who would gladly take your low paying job. Owners know that and logically use it to their advantage. That's free market to an extent but it's also a rip off.
choicevoicepro.com said:You think compensation should be based on what the station makes and not what the job should pay? (given the job, market and so on)
OK – fair enough. Then tell me what risk (like the owner) have you taken? What investment other than time have you made?
I’m not sure that talent is even on the same playing field with the owner as far as liability and risk.
Based on your theory that talent should be paid in line with what the station makes – would you be willing to take less if the station made less in a particular year?
Interesting to note that this thread was started by someone trying to assess market pricing for on-air positions, with no statement about the relative fairness of pay for on-air talent, owners, or anyone else.
It was the owner who tried to shut down the conversation, saying he didn't think is was his business, and by implication, anyone else's.
Personally, this is not the forum I would go to for reliable job pricing data, but it is normal for both buyers and sellers of this product (on-air talent) to be well-informed about the market price.
Incidently, Carr's deal with WTKK (apparently matched by WRKO) traded guaranteed income for higher/lower incentive pay. We don't know if he was able to get rid of the 'right to match' clause, and if so, how much it was worth in compensation (to either Carr or WRKO). Part of the problem with the question that started this thread is that you have to evaluate the entire package, not just pay. Do they have any say in who they work with, on the air or behind the scenes? Do they have a say in on-air talent on other time slots? Is their time slot guaranteed? and so on, and so on.
For those who resent the houses, etc. - you just have to develop a skill in something that doesn't have 500 people lined up to take your place - it's just a numbers game. And, here's a hint: with rare exceptions, fun jobs pay less than boring jobs. Sucks, but it's just the way it is.
back to the topic at hand
not sure if these are completely up to date, but it's what i've heard
Glenn Ordway 400 to 440k
Lady Di 65 to 75
I would not be surprised if Paula Street IS making close to 130. She has been there a long time and is in one of the most sucessful dayparts at the station.
If you have been with a station a number of years like (middayers) Paula Street and Nancy Quill, their salaries have grown to where they are being paid pretty well. Nancy Quill has been handling her stations most sucessful daypart as well.
not sure if these are completely up to date, but it's what i've heard
Glenn Ordway 400 to 440k
Lady Di 65 to 75
I would not be surprised if Paula Street IS making close to 130. She has been there a long time and is in one of the most sucessful dayparts at the station.
If you have been with a station a number of years like (middayers) Paula Street and Nancy Quill, their salaries have grown to where they are being paid pretty well. Nancy Quill has been handling her stations most sucessful daypart as well.
Will says: If you said this to a current or prospective employee, and they responded by asking to see the budget, would you show it to them, or would you expect them to blindly take your word that their salary is in line with what the station makes?
First, of all, NOBODY walking in the door, be it your bar job or a radio station would dare ask to "see the budget." Would I show it? Yes, if they were the hired Operations or PD of my station. As for a "prospective" employee, I'd not show them the budget, but would, in all likelihood, show them the door, instead. Did you ask to "see the budget" at your mobile DJ job? I also pay benefits, but that's part of the package, not because someone asked if I do.
For someone who "sounds like they should be on the radio," many people are easily impressed. The first thing I'd do is not be so snarky and learn the "business" before you start shooting off in the middle of what would be the most embarrassing job interview you've ever had. Speculating about someone's salary isn't going to get you anywhere but frustrated.
In fact, might I suggest that you start looking for a radio job instead. Good luck.
And thanks to those who understand my rant. As for a lecture, if it helps a couple of people better understand that investment in support of good business and people then, I'm happy. Investment in any less is losing money. We earn our money everyday. Not all do. Trust me, after 38 years, I'm been through both the good and the bad.
First, of all, NOBODY walking in the door, be it your bar job or a radio station would dare ask to "see the budget." Would I show it? Yes, if they were the hired Operations or PD of my station. As for a "prospective" employee, I'd not show them the budget, but would, in all likelihood, show them the door, instead. Did you ask to "see the budget" at your mobile DJ job? I also pay benefits, but that's part of the package, not because someone asked if I do.
For someone who "sounds like they should be on the radio," many people are easily impressed. The first thing I'd do is not be so snarky and learn the "business" before you start shooting off in the middle of what would be the most embarrassing job interview you've ever had. Speculating about someone's salary isn't going to get you anywhere but frustrated.
In fact, might I suggest that you start looking for a radio job instead. Good luck.
And thanks to those who understand my rant. As for a lecture, if it helps a couple of people better understand that investment in support of good business and people then, I'm happy. Investment in any less is losing money. We earn our money everyday. Not all do. Trust me, after 38 years, I'm been through both the good and the bad.
Wow.
First, I think it would be of benefit for talent/prospective newcomers to have an idea what they could make in a certain market with a certain amount of talent in a certain format or even with a certain company. To specifically name names, while beneficial and fun for the "intel" (read: gossip) is more than anyone really needs to know, as everyone knows the market and economy fluctuate at any given quarter.
For those who want to know the business side of things, simply to further their knowledge of all the nuts and bolts of what goes on in a company, could perhaps get a textbook scenario from a college, particularly one who operates a station. Though they don't pay their students, you could get a rough idea of exactly what it takes to operate a radio station at a certain overhead. Again, I don't see anyone pawing through your wallet at the end of the day (except maybe your spouse) to see how you spend your money.
In short, there's being practical, and then there's being nosy.
I have had a couple of instances where I left a station and then radio for good because I could not tolerate:
A) the pay
B) how and how often I was utilized
C) the level of respect
D) retractions of original verbal agreements
But, I never expected to turn a $1/hour more than I was currently making. And I never held anyone else accountable (although I did fume about it for a time), for my own lack of good negotiating skills.
If someone wants to prove their worth, though, don't expect anyone to hold a candle to you. If what drives salaries is sales, then sell yourself. You do it on the air, (or you ought to be), so why not off the air? You could take an acct. exec. around to seal the deal. Let me ask you this, though? How many of you would go out to help sell the station (and in particular, your program) and perhaps earn a split-commission? OK, yes you'd have to find an acct. exec. willing to split it with you, but it's not impossible.
Just a thought or two.
First, I think it would be of benefit for talent/prospective newcomers to have an idea what they could make in a certain market with a certain amount of talent in a certain format or even with a certain company. To specifically name names, while beneficial and fun for the "intel" (read: gossip) is more than anyone really needs to know, as everyone knows the market and economy fluctuate at any given quarter.
For those who want to know the business side of things, simply to further their knowledge of all the nuts and bolts of what goes on in a company, could perhaps get a textbook scenario from a college, particularly one who operates a station. Though they don't pay their students, you could get a rough idea of exactly what it takes to operate a radio station at a certain overhead. Again, I don't see anyone pawing through your wallet at the end of the day (except maybe your spouse) to see how you spend your money.
In short, there's being practical, and then there's being nosy.
I have had a couple of instances where I left a station and then radio for good because I could not tolerate:
A) the pay
B) how and how often I was utilized
C) the level of respect
D) retractions of original verbal agreements
But, I never expected to turn a $1/hour more than I was currently making. And I never held anyone else accountable (although I did fume about it for a time), for my own lack of good negotiating skills.
If someone wants to prove their worth, though, don't expect anyone to hold a candle to you. If what drives salaries is sales, then sell yourself. You do it on the air, (or you ought to be), so why not off the air? You could take an acct. exec. around to seal the deal. Let me ask you this, though? How many of you would go out to help sell the station (and in particular, your program) and perhaps earn a split-commission? OK, yes you'd have to find an acct. exec. willing to split it with you, but it's not impossible.
Just a thought or two.
Well said.
And it doesn't mean you need to say "But I don't do sales ..." If you don't, then you depend on others selling YOU ... and that's how you make money.
You earn it ... you don't demand it. You command it, like Howie Carr and others, not merely expect it.
Again, there are good operators and bad ones. Good groups and horrid ones. But how you succeed in it ... is your doing, not on speculation, but on reality of worth and value to the person who signs the checks. Without them ... you have, what ...? (Nothing.)
And it doesn't mean you need to say "But I don't do sales ..." If you don't, then you depend on others selling YOU ... and that's how you make money.
You earn it ... you don't demand it. You command it, like Howie Carr and others, not merely expect it.
Again, there are good operators and bad ones. Good groups and horrid ones. But how you succeed in it ... is your doing, not on speculation, but on reality of worth and value to the person who signs the checks. Without them ... you have, what ...? (Nothing.)
ex radio pimp said:I've seen the houses radio execs live in and the cars that they drive, the restaurants they eat in, the parties they go to. They make money.
I take it you've seen the houses, cars, restaurants and parties of all the owners of all 14,000 or so US radio stations?
Of course you haven't.
Ask Bob Bittner or Bob Savage (both small station owners, both of whom post on this site) how much money they make. Ask them how many huge houses and expensive cars they own. Ask them how many $100/plate meals they can afford.
Last time I checked, only about 50% of US commercial stations made money.
Man i'm going to sound like the outsider here, but maybe radio personalities make too much money? I won't lie or hide anything...I make about $43,000 a year in construction (before taxes) and now (thank you for my raise, state of Massachusetts) $8 an hour working part time and weekends in radio...which do I prefer? radio of course, but being a 22 year old recent college grad, seeing some personalities making mid 6 figures is crazy to me, for what? getting someone to buy the new Against me cd? getting listeners to go out and buy a new boch toyota (or dodge, or kia, or new to you....you get my point)? or talk about how the celtics are in freefall mode and the parade wouldn't last all season?
I think both the owner and employee have a point...but there seems to be this large gap between the people who make a disgusting amount of money, and the people who make squat....but if you love being in radio that much, you'll find ways to make ends meet
Maybe I'm just naive or maybe I haven't been bitten by the bitter bug yet after getting fired from my first full time gig (note: I am still looking to get hired for my first time gig), but I think radio is probably one of the least demanding jobs that you can earn a livable paycheck from...now if you'd excuse me, I have to go get some rest before I work from 6 - 5 for the next 3 days, while squeezing in two overnight shifts on air in between
I think both the owner and employee have a point...but there seems to be this large gap between the people who make a disgusting amount of money, and the people who make squat....but if you love being in radio that much, you'll find ways to make ends meet
Maybe I'm just naive or maybe I haven't been bitten by the bitter bug yet after getting fired from my first full time gig (note: I am still looking to get hired for my first time gig), but I think radio is probably one of the least demanding jobs that you can earn a livable paycheck from...now if you'd excuse me, I have to go get some rest before I work from 6 - 5 for the next 3 days, while squeezing in two overnight shifts on air in between
oaktree said:As an owner, let me ask you these easy questions ...
I'm gonna guess that any "owner" who has time to post here....must be a small time operator....
You'd be surprised.
Very surprised. A lot of small time operators make really good money ... and so do their staffs.
And many post here ... but so many more "lurk" here.
Incidentally, many "small time operators" work very very hard to be successful ... and as hard as those "big stations," if not harder, in fact. I'm not selling out like some people ...
And I assume you work for ... CBS? Citadel? Cumulus? Emmis? Entercom? Or ... a "small time operator?" I bet the latter or how would you have time to post such menial minutia?
Very surprised. A lot of small time operators make really good money ... and so do their staffs.
And many post here ... but so many more "lurk" here.
Incidentally, many "small time operators" work very very hard to be successful ... and as hard as those "big stations," if not harder, in fact. I'm not selling out like some people ...
And I assume you work for ... CBS? Citadel? Cumulus? Emmis? Entercom? Or ... a "small time operator?" I bet the latter or how would you have time to post such menial minutia?
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