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Oakland A's and the teams future

That's a bit over the top.
No, it is not. This came from the head of the largest research recruiting company in the metro area. That's a person in charge of finding people to participate in consumer, social and political research which can involve going door to door with questionnaires or finding people in a local area who will attend a research group at a local meeting room of some kind.
I went to many games at the Oakland Coliseum and never had a problem. Every city has what are considered "bad areas". The biggest problem in San Francisco and other cities is homelessness. The cost of living is so high that many people with jobs can't afford to live there.
We are talking about the danger of being on the streets doing research, both door to door and in local community centers and meeting places. You have gone off into the realm of social issues. Whatever the root cause, we were told to "got out of Dodge" quickly and with no distractions after doing music tests in Oakland.

And we were told that by someone whose staff is "on the streets" in the Bay Area every day of the year.
The Oakland A's owner is an inept clown. The current situation reflects on him alone, not the fans. Attendance is way down because of ownership, not crime. The Pittsburgh Pirates and Baltimore Orioles saw attendance plummet when the teams were bad. Owners expect fans to buy tickets no matter how bad the product is. That's beyond unreasonable. If a restaurant serves terrible food and has lousy service, should people support it because it's local? Pro sports is a business. Put out a quality product and people will usually turn out...
That is not all of it. How many losing seasons in a row do the Cubs usually have, while all the time filling their stadium.

In Spanish, there is an expression of "trying to find the fifth paw on a cat" that applies here; you always, no matter what the subject, find some... generally obtuse... way of being argumentative.
 

Here is more on the talks over a proposed stadium deal in Las Vegas.
 
This article really lays out the situation. You have the commissioner of baseball who says he feels sorry for the fans, but then runs through a bunch of talking points from the team owner.


As the mayor of Oakland points out, the team is getting less from Las Vegas than they'd get from Oakland, but they just want to move.
 
As the mayor of Oakland points out, the team is getting less from Las Vegas than they'd get from Oakland, but they just want to move.
I have not followed this; is there a personality conflict between the owner and city government or between the owner and the stadium itself or.... ?
 
I have not followed this; is there a personality conflict between the owner and city government or between the owner and the stadium itself or.... ?

It sounds like it's between the city and the owner. The city recognizes the problems at the stadium, and proposed a new location. The owner really wants to go to Las Vegas.
 
It sounds like it's between the city and the owner. The city recognizes the problems at the stadium, and proposed a new location. The owner really wants to go to Las Vegas.
The baseball stadium in Oakland is obsolete, but the owner is a clown. He has no intention of bargaining in good faith with Oakland. He deliberately gutted the team into a laughingstock and then wants to blame the fans. In a previous post, David said Chicago Cubs fans fill the stadium no matter what. When fans pay for a losing product, the owner has no incentive to try to win. They'll make money no matter what. The A's won many championships in Oakland. It's sad to see this current situation...
 
I have not followed this; is there a personality conflict between the owner and city government or between the owner and the stadium itself or.... ?
The A's have the worst stadium in the major leagues. For example, it does not have dugouts, due to originally being shared with the Oakland Raiders.

The team has been trying for almost 20 years to figure out a solution. They tried at least three different plans in Oakland, but none of them materialized. The most recent effort was near the bay itself, at a place called Howard Terminal.

They also tried a couple locations in the South Bay but the SF Giants torpedoed that idea with a lawsuit.
 
They also tried a couple locations in the South Bay but the SF Giants torpedoed that idea with a lawsuit.
The San Jose A’s would have been the perfect solution to the problem. I blame MLB for allowing the Giants to scuttle that idea...giving them territorial rights to South Bay in response to the Giants own stadium blackmail shenanigans 30+ years ago (threatening to move to Tampa Bay, long before the Rays came into existence.)
 
I don't want to say I am old, but I saw the Kansas City Athletics play the Boston Red Sox at Fenway in a weekday afternoon game in the middle of the summer.

I wasn't born when they played in Philly
 
I don't want to say I am old, but I saw the Kansas City Athletics play the Boston Red Sox at Fenway in a weekday afternoon game in the middle of the summer.

I wasn't born when they played in Philly
The A's moved to Oakland in 1968. That means you're older than infield dirt!😁

I saw many games at the Coliseum during their heyday in the 70s. Catfish Hunter, Vida Blue, Reggie Jackson, and many others on those great teams. That was entertainment. Many baseball insiders are not happy about the possibility of the A's leaving Oakland...
 
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I have not followed this; is there a personality conflict between the owner and city government or between the owner and the stadium itself or.... ?
Not really. This is a saga that's gone on for two decades. The main sticking point has been cash. Oakland can't afford to be throwing money around, but that's what the A's seemed to want. Instead there were offers to contribute real estate, capital improvements, and other benefits. In return, Oakland wanted support for various programs. Back when we had a city manager, there was an effort for a downtown stadium. The city manager of the time, Robert Bobb, who was extremely competent, labored on this issue, but the A's wanted actual cash from the city. Then Jerry Brown was elected mayor. He made some efforts in this regard, but his higher priority was general economic development, particularly for downtown Oakland. Bobb left, and a charter amendment converted the city manager into a city administrator accountable only to the mayor. At that point, it became up to elected officials to carry any program forward.

The "strong mayor" form of city government worked with someone of Jerry Brown's competence in the office. Unfortunately, his successors have mostly been less than competent. Ron Dellums had promise, and a great track record in Congress. But he was unable to translate that to Frank Ogawa Plaza. Next was Jean Quan, who was no one's first or second choice, but thanks to our easily manipulated system of ranked-choice voting, she got in on third-place votes. She was feckless and, really, not qualified to run or do much of anything. Then there was Libby Schaaf, well-intentioned but a bit over her head at times. She tried to assemble a package, first focusing on housing development by the Coliseum, and then back to downtown and the Howard Terminal proposal.

None of this is to excuse John Fisher's obvious role in running the team down, but to get anything done in Oakland, you have to line up multiple constituencies, including public-employee unions (who really run the city), other unions, city council members (some of whom are competent and others who seem to be from another planet), numerous advocacy groups - many of which are outright grifting - and other governmental bodies. For the Howard Terminal proposal, the Port of Oakland authority had to be brought on board as well as the Alameda County Board of Supervisors. Alameda County had been burned by the Raiders (twice) and was wary of any new deals. The Port was concerned about effects on its operations. As a consequence, a complex package was put together, including various forms of capital improvements and support. There would also have been transfers of land that the A's could sell...as long as housing was built on that land. There would have been no direct cash outlay to the A's, however, which is what they clearly wanted. The general feeling in Oakland at this point seems to be that the A's strung Oakland along until they could see what kind of deal Nevada would give them.

The current mayor, Sheng Thao, to be fair to her, inherited all of this when she took office in January. She was another third-place choice who worked the ranked-choice voting system. But her first month in office, she was handed a poop sandwich in the form of another scandal in the Oakland Police Department, resulting in the firing of yet another police chief. So an A's deal was not in focus for a while. By the time it was, the Nevada deal had advanced, though until this spring, the A's continued with what appeared to be negotiations. When the A's announced their deal for Las Vegas, Thao's initial reaction was to drop the whole thing, which, in my opinion, was the right reaction. The A's clearly had not been serious about Oakland for sometime. This is a city that has many more pressing problems than a stupid baseball team, and resources should be going toward those problems and not toward a privately-owned team.

Thao seems to have changed her mind a bit, however, though it appears that the A's train is leaving the station. My own theory is that the A's feel overshadowed by the San Francisco Giants, and do not want to be relegated to a secondary role in this area (a good example is the challenge the A's have had in the past getting radio play-by-play coverage ... including the year when that PBP was on the University of California's student radio station). John Fisher is someone who inherited his money and has no sense for what's politically possible in Oakland or Alameda County, and is looking for money with few(er) strings attached, using the poor state of the A's stadium as an excuse to go chasing money in Las Vegas. My feeling is, let him go. Sports teams are not that important, and contribute far less to the economic development of their host cities than team owners claim when they're looking for handouts.
 
Not really. This is a saga that's gone on for two decades. The main sticking point has been cash. Oakland can't afford to be throwing money around, but that's what the A's seemed to want. Instead there were offers to contribute real estate, capital improvements, and other benefits. In return, Oakland wanted support for various programs. Back when we had a city manager, there was an effort for a downtown stadium. The city manager of the time, Robert Bobb, who was extremely competent, labored on this issue, but the A's wanted actual cash from the city. Then Jerry Brown was elected mayor. He made some efforts in this regard, but his higher priority was general economic development, particularly for downtown Oakland. Bobb left, and a charter amendment converted the city manager into a city administrator accountable only to the mayor. At that point, it became up to elected officials to carry any program forward.

The "strong mayor" form of city government worked with someone of Jerry Brown's competence in the office. Unfortunately, his successors have mostly been less than competent. Ron Dellums had promise, and a great track record in Congress. But he was unable to translate that to Frank Ogawa Plaza. Next was Jean Quan, who was no one's first or second choice, but thanks to our easily manipulated system of ranked-choice voting, she got in on third-place votes. She was feckless and, really, not qualified to run or do much of anything. Then there was Libby Schaaf, well-intentioned but a bit over her head at times. She tried to assemble a package, first focusing on housing development by the Coliseum, and then back to downtown and the Howard Terminal proposal.

None of this is to excuse John Fisher's obvious role in running the team down, but to get anything done in Oakland, you have to line up multiple constituencies, including public-employee unions (who really run the city), other unions, city council members (some of whom are competent and others who seem to be from another planet), numerous advocacy groups - many of which are outright grifting - and other governmental bodies. For the Howard Terminal proposal, the Port of Oakland authority had to be brought on board as well as the Alameda County Board of Supervisors. Alameda County had been burned by the Raiders (twice) and was wary of any new deals. The Port was concerned about effects on its operations. As a consequence, a complex package was put together, including various forms of capital improvements and support. There would also have been transfers of land that the A's could sell...as long as housing was built on that land. There would have been no direct cash outlay to the A's, however, which is what they clearly wanted. The general feeling in Oakland at this point seems to be that the A's strung Oakland along until they could see what kind of deal Nevada would give them.

The current mayor, Sheng Thao, to be fair to her, inherited all of this when she took office in January. She was another third-place choice who worked the ranked-choice voting system. But her first month in office, she was handed a poop sandwich in the form of another scandal in the Oakland Police Department, resulting in the firing of yet another police chief. So an A's deal was not in focus for a while. By the time it was, the Nevada deal had advanced, though until this spring, the A's continued with what appeared to be negotiations. When the A's announced their deal for Las Vegas, Thao's initial reaction was to drop the whole thing, which, in my opinion, was the right reaction. The A's clearly had not been serious about Oakland for sometime. This is a city that has many more pressing problems than a stupid baseball team, and resources should be going toward those problems and not toward a privately-owned team.

Thao seems to have changed her mind a bit, however, though it appears that the A's train is leaving the station. My own theory is that the A's feel overshadowed by the San Francisco Giants, and do not want to be relegated to a secondary role in this area (a good example is the challenge the A's have had in the past getting radio play-by-play coverage ... including the year when that PBP was on the University of California's student radio station). John Fisher is someone who inherited his money and has no sense for what's politically possible in Oakland or Alameda County, and is looking for money with few(er) strings attached, using the poor state of the A's stadium as an excuse to go chasing money in Las Vegas. My feeling is, let him go. Sports teams are not that important, and contribute far less to the economic development of their host cities than team owners claim when they're looking for handouts.
Sports franchises bring money and jobs to communities, like nothing else. It may mean nothing to you. But to millions, including the over 30,000 at the “reverse boycott” game, it means everything. Major League Baseball looks bad for this, especially when star players speak out against the relocation. I just don’t get why Oakland couldn‘t just give the Raiders and A’s what they wanted. The reality is no owner wants to spend a lot of money on a stadium. It’s been that way for years. Oakland was so enamored with adding housing to the Howard terminal deal, when John Fisher clearly had no interested. I have contacts in the A’s organization who feel this is far from a done deal.
 
Sports franchises bring money and jobs to communities, like nothing else.

More like "not very much".

It may mean nothing to you. But to millions, including the over 30,000 at the “reverse boycott” game, it means everything.

I wonder how many of those 30 thousand live in Oakland and are paying Oakland taxes. Oakland's population is north of 390 thousand.
Major League Baseball looks bad for this, especially when star players speak out against the relocation. I just don’t get why Oakland couldn‘t just give the Raiders and A’s what they wanted.
Money. If you think Oakland city government can afford this, you're fooling yourself.

The reality is no owner wants to spend a lot of money on a stadium. It’s been that way for years. Oakland was so enamored with adding housing to the Howard terminal deal, when John Fisher clearly had no interested.

Oakland city government, and associated agencies, don't exist merely to satisfy the whims of rich team owners.

The "reverse boycott" was cute, got quite a bit of media attention, and is unlikely to make much of a difference.
 
More like "not very much".



I wonder how many of those 30 thousand live in Oakland and are paying Oakland taxes. Oakland's population is north of 390 thousand.

Money. If you think Oakland city government can afford this, you're fooling yourself.



Oakland city government, and associated agencies, don't exist merely to satisfy the whims of rich team owners.

The "reverse boycott" was cute, got quite a bit of media attention, and is unlikely to make much of a difference.
Aside from civic pride pro sports teams bring when they’re winning, they bring families together. You may not like sports, but I know millions of others that do. All big cities are expensive. It’ll get worse with inflation. If it’s too much, move. I left California 14 years ago. Oakland has the money, but refuses to spend or come up with cheap fixes. I mean the city tried to offer Howard Terminal to the A’s, which cost millions to clean up with all of the waste there. This saga isn’t over it’s just getting started. A’s ownership and MLB are beginning to look really bad right now
 
Oakland has the money, but refuses to spend or come up with cheap fixes.
This is not correct, on at least two counts.

Last month, the mayor proposed her budget for the next two years. Because city budgets must be balanced, there was a $360 million deficit that had to be addressed. Quoting from her budget message, "The City of Oakland is facing the largest budget deficit in its history. Current financial analysis projects the city to have an approximately $360 million shortfall over the next two fiscal years." This is in the general fund. More of the city budget is actually in restricted funds, either dedicated to specific departments, or to voter-approved funding issues. One avenue of addressing the general-fund shortfall would be to freeze city hiring for general-fund positions, with 300+ jobs going unfilled.

The city is planning to spend money where it can, either for much-needed infrastructure improvements which are supported by restricted funds, or on additional police academies and some realignment of police functions.

Mayor's budget message: A-4 - Mayor's Message v2 - Proposed FY23-25

So, for any money for any additional purpose, a voter-approved measure would be required. This requires aligning multiple interests, as I described upthread, which requires working out numerous details and getting key advocacy groups and unions on board. You made a negative remark about housing, but, given the reality of Oakland city politics, any deal would require the construction of new housing. That's just one example of the trade-offs that would have to be made. Moreover, there are no cheap fixes.
 

MLB owners unanimously vote to approve Athletics' move to Las Vegas​

The Oakland Athletics are officially relocating. The team's move to Las Vegas was voted on, and unanimously approved, by all 30 MLB owners Thursday.
The vote should end roughly a decade of speculation over the Athletics' relocation efforts. A's owner John Fisher initially explored building a new ballpark around the Oakland area in California, but those attempts fell through.
The Athletics are still under lease at the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum in 2024. After that, the team's lease ends. The Athletics don't expect their Las Vegas ballpark to be ready until 2028, so the team may need to find a temporary place to play following the 2024 MLB season.
 

MLB owners unanimously vote to approve Athletics' move to Las Vegas​

This is a sad end for the Oakland A's. They will be playing in an empty stadium for all of 2024. Why should anyone in Oakland give this team another dollar? A's ownership is garbage. A's had a lot of great years and championships, but the current regime is a joke...
 
This is a sad end for the Oakland A's. They will be playing in an empty stadium for all of 2024. Why should anyone in Oakland give this team another dollar? A's ownership is garbage. A's had a lot of great years and championships, but the current regime is a joke...
Fisher was trying to shake down a city that doesn't have much money to spare and that doesn't make good use of the money that it does have. The mystery is why city officials put up with it for so long.
 
Fisher was trying to shake down a city that doesn't have much money to spare and that doesn't make good use of the money that it does have. The mystery is why city officials put up with it for so long.
He also gutted the team. He deliberately put out a bad product to alienate the fan base. Typical slimeball owner trying to get a free ride on taxpayers.

Apparently, Oakland is now seeking an expansion team. That seems very unlikely...
 
He also gutted the team. He deliberately put out a bad product to alienate the fan base. Typical slimeball owner trying to get a free ride on taxpayers.

Apparently, Oakland is now seeking an expansion team. That seems very unlikely...
This article indicates that Oakland will try to use the team's need to find an "home" in the 2025-2027 seasons as leverage to get an expansion team. (Caution: Lots of pop-ups and cookies.) But the article also hints that many other locations are being considered.

Link: https://www.sfgate.com/athletics/article/las-vegas-relocation-as-homeless-baseball-team-18496328.php

Will KGMZ think it's worth it to keep carrying the A's next year?
 
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