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Let's Give Joan Rivers Her Due

Then we disagree.

What other late night talk alternatives were there, incidentally when Joan Rivers debuted?

Just asking since you asserted there were some.

Further, while you may think her role was minor, the FOX executives at the time, who might have been a bit more clued in than you are apparently thought differently:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...hsaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=pCQEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6559,1607767

A headline of 'Joan Rivers will LEAD (emphasis added) Fox's....' kind of indicates her role was a bit more than minor.

Your move, Avid.
 
The "Late Night" program on Fox ran from 11pm to 12mid. For the first half hour the "alternatives" were local news and whatever syndicated shows were running in a given market. For her second half-hour she was up against Johnny Carson, Nightline and a mix of made for TV movie re-runs and series re-runs on CBS.

Not only did Joan fail to take away viewers from Johnny, she did not bring in new viewers - as did Arsenio. And those suits at Fox you assume were so "clued" dumped Joan rather quickly for Arsenio.

And just because some feature writer back then was naive enough to take a network press release as gospel, doesn't make it so. Of course, press releases hype whatever the subject is. That's what they do.
 
Fred, your contention, as you've somehow joined my response to Avid Listener is then that Joan Rivers did not play a significant role in the launch of the network.

She generated major publicity and, in fact, served as the only programming by Fox for several months after it's inception.

You're right, her show didn't garner large ratings and was dropped quickly, however, the publicity she generated did play far more than a 'minor' role in the launch of FOX.

Support your contention, as I did mine, or accept that your wrong. Or don't and I, and likely others, will simply conclude that.
 
Getting initial publicity does not guarantee long-term viability or profitability or put an enterprise on the map. They started off with a flop. They came back and established themselves with other programs.

The Overmeyer network launched with lots of publicity, too. So, for that matter, did Air America Radio.

You can resort to the tried and true fascist tactic or repeating a lie, saying I don't support what I say. That doesn't make it so. You just don't want to believe it - or maybe my stuff goes over your head. I can see why you didn't get into the U of M.
 
R.I.P. Joan Rivers Dies At 81

“It is with great sadness that I announce the death of my mother, Joan Rivers. She passed peacefully at 1:17pm surrounded by family and close friends. My son and I would like to thank the doctors, nurses, and staff of Mount Sinai Hospital for the amazing care they provided for my mother. Cooper and I have found ourselves humbled by the outpouring of love, support, and prayers we have received from around the world. They have been heard and appreciated. My mother’s greatest joy in life was to make people laugh. Although that is difficult to do right now, I know her final wish would be that we return to laughing soon.”
Click to expand...

http://deadline.com/2014/09/joan-ri...iac-arrest-hospitalized-new-york-city-826381/
 
Thanks, Fan.

Joan had some great lines. One of my favorites was rant she got into in her last appearance on "Fresh Air from WHYY" with Terry Gross. Joan was going on about the condescending way older people are treated and referred to. She didn't much like "senior citizen" but her least favorite was the practice of broadcasters referring to a person as "80 years young." Joan said, "that's like me going on the Today show and saying 'Al Roker is 300 pounds thin'."
 
Oh my goodness, RIP to Joan! Can't believe it. Death does come in threes. First we lost Robin Williams, then Lauren Bacall, and now Joan Rivers. What a horrible 2014 for celebrity deaths. Condolences to her family and fans, and definitely to anyone that worked at E! and Fox (where she started the network in 1986).

-crainbebo
 
crainbebo said:
Oh my goodness, RIP to Joan! Can't believe it. Death does come in threes. First we lost Robin Williams, then Lauren Bacall, and now Joan Rivers. What a horrible 2014 for celebrity deaths. Condolences to her family and fans, and definitely to anyone that worked at E! and Fox (where she started the network in 1986).

-crainbebo
Click to expand...
No, it doesn't come in threes, or fours, or twos. It comes...it comes to everyone. Isolating any three particular points on a continuum doesn't mean anything.
 
And Don Pardo as well, but he was an announcer. Robin, Joan and Lauren were in movies or TV...

-crainbebo
 
Avid Listener said:
Why would anyone assume that just because someone was on a brand new network first, they're what put that new network "on the map"? When Rivers hosted her late night talk show on Fox, there was no shortage of other late-night talk shows going up against Johnny Carson. Rivers was just another one, as good as many, and better than some. It was the prime time shows on Fox that caused the American viewing public to notice that there was a new network in town. "Married, With Children" and "The Tracey Ullman Show" were what put Fox on the map as a full-fledged, bona-fide Primetime TV Network.
Click to expand...
It is worth noting that FOX observed their 25th anniversary in 2012. They basically ignored their own first year (1986-87) when all that they had at the time was the Late Show with Rivers. Success has a thousand fathers, but failure is an orphan. They even distanced themselves from their own name at the time. Their network name was FBC at the time that they inked the deal with Rivers, but soon became known as just FOX.

Revisionist history on the part of FOX observing their 25th in 2012, but so be it.
 
firepoint525 said:
Revisionist history on the part of FOX observing their 25th in 2012, but so be it.
Click to expand...

It's not as revisionist as it might seem. Despite preliminary attempts at some off-peak, semi-syndicated late-night programming, the real start of Fox as a prime time network began with their first prime time programs.
 
Avid Listener said:
It's not as revisionist as it might seem. Despite preliminary attempts at some off-peak, semi-syndicated late-night programming, the real start of Fox as a prime time network began with their first prime time programs.
Click to expand...
We had this discussion on this board two years ago, and I don't recall any "prime-time" disclaimer. Rest assured, if the talk show had been a success, FOX would have celebrated their 25th in 2011. I don't mind them doing what is expedient for them, just don't lie to us about it.

We had to watch her talk show on our backyard satellite dish because we did not have a local FOX affiliate yet. KBSI in Cape Girardeau, MO, signed on as a FOX affiliate right after the talk show was cancelled, and to me, it felt like they were climbing aboard a sinking ship. Little did we know that they would soon remake themselves as a "prime-time" network.
 
When Fox (or as it was then, FBC) wanted to jump into the pool, they needed to make one hell of a splash; and how they did that was to get Joan Rivers to go up against Johnny Carson. Rivers' decision and the immediate rift between her and Carson generated plenty of heat in the press and brought attention to the new network. In the long run, she failed to wear well with the audience; maybe once a week (as she had been doing as Johnny's fill-in) was just right, but every night was too much. But the show, for better or worse, got Fox's foot in the door and allowed them to sign on affiliates for their eventual prime-time lineup. (Buying TV Guide and virtually turning it into an advertising "house organ" didn't hurt either...)
 
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