Wreck of The Edmund Fitzgerald, inspiration for Gordon Lightfoot song, occurred 46 years ago

[Mikey Radio]

The major storm behind Gordon Lightfoot's 'The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald' - The Weather Network

Shortly after 7:10 p.m. on Nov. 10, 1975, the Edmund Fitzgerald suddenly sank in Canadian (Ontario) waters 530 feet (160 metres) deep after encountering a severe storm on Lake Superior.

www.theweathernetwork.com

Shortly after 7:10 p.m. on Nov. 10, 1975, the Edmund Fitzgerald suddenly sank in Canadian (Ontario) waters 530 feet (160 metres) deep after encountering a severe storm on Lake Superior.

 

[DavidEduardo]

The major storm behind Gordon Lightfoot's 'The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald' - The Weather Network

Shortly after 7:10 p.m. on Nov. 10, 1975, the Edmund Fitzgerald suddenly sank in Canadian (Ontario) waters 530 feet (160 metres) deep after encountering a severe storm on Lake Superior.

www.theweathernetwork.com

Near the "Soo" Locks at Sault Sainte Marie, MI, there is one of the lifeboats from the Fitzgerald. One can actually board it... it is an eerie feeling to sit in that remnant of the great ship.



This is a snapshot of me around 1983 next to the lifeboat.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Gordon Lightfoot's reference to the Maritime Sailors' Cathedral in Detroit was probably included due to his familiarity with the Mariners' Church, from living in Detroit briefly with Chuck and Joni Mitchell, just a few blocks from the church, circa 1966.

From the same era as Gordon Lightfoot stayed in Detroit, there is this picture from an interview on the FOCUS show on WJR in December, 1966. From Left To Right, Joni Mitchell, Chuck Mitchell, WJR GM James H. Quello, later FCC Chairman, Show Producer Hal Youngblood, and, from behind, WJR well known Morning Shift and FOCUS host J.P. McCarthy.

https://jonimitchell.com/chronology/images/1010_user6_091226-153436.jpg

 

[Kelly A]

The major storm behind Gordon Lightfoot's 'The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald' - The Weather Network

Shortly after 7:10 p.m. on Nov. 10, 1975, the Edmund Fitzgerald suddenly sank in Canadian (Ontario) waters 530 feet (160 metres) deep after encountering a severe storm on Lake Superior.

www.theweathernetwork.com

As I recall, the cause was they had left several portholes opened up on the (I believe it was) the port side bow of the cargo sections to the sea and weather. When the weather got really bad, the waves were blowing right into the open portholes, saturating the cargo with seawater. The increasing amount of water toward the bow caused the bow to submerge into the waves, filling the cargo sections with even more water faster. Eventually the nose went under altogether, lifting the stern out of the water and shortly after, breaking the hull in two.

 

[DavidEduardo]

As I recall, the cause was they had left several portholes opened up on the (I believe it was) the port side bow of the cargo sections to the sea and weather. When the weather got really bad, the waves were blowing right into the open portholes, saturating the cargo with seawater. The increasing amount of water toward the bow caused the bow to submerge into the waves, filling the cargo sections with even more water faster. Eventually the nose went under altogether, lifting the stern out of the water and shortly after, breaking the hull in two.

That is one theory, but unproven. A big Great Lakes storm is not like an ocean storm due to factors like much shallower depths and different wind configurations.

Oh, there is no “seawater” in Lake Superior. It is all fresh water, another factor.

(Former Lake Michigan and Salinas, Ecuador Lightening class sailor and Caribbean pleasure sailor)

 

[Kelly A]

That is one theory, but unproven. A big Great Lakes storm is not like an ocean storm due to factors like much shallower depths and different wind configurations.

When the wreck was discovered, divers found the portholes/hatches open on one side near the waterline. Those portholes/hatches were supposed to be closed when underway to avoid exactly what may have happened.

Oh, there is no “seawater” in Lake Superior. It is all fresh water, another factor.

Okay, lakewater

(Former Lake Michigan and Salinas, Ecuador Lightening class sailor and Caribbean pleasure sailor)

Don't forget 'expert on everything'.

 

[DavidEduardo]

When the wreck was discovered, divers found the portholes/hatches open on one side near the waterline. Those portholes/hatches were supposed to be closed when underway to avoid exactly what may have happened.

And the theory at the memorial site and in several books is that the rough waters caused load shifting, causing hull stress, causing hull cover latches to pop open on the main deck, allowing water to be taken. Ore boats have a unique construction made for heavy weight, shallow draft and inland lake waters.

"In 1977, the U.S Coast Guard pinned the sinking on massive flooding of the cargo hold caused by faulty or poorly fastened hatch covers. The slow flooding supposedly went unnoticed by the captain and crew until it caused an imperceptible but fatal buoyancy loss and eventually sent the Fitzgerald plunging to the bottom"

https://www.mlive.com/news/2015/11/what_sank_the_edmund_fitzgeral.html (This was updated this year)

A cargo-bearing ore boat lies very low in the water, so a storm will push waves over the deck. Normally, that is intentional to relieve stress on the hull.

Okay, lakewater

Correct.

Don't forget 'expert on everything'.

No, but having sailed those waters as well as the Pacific and the Caribbean, I know there are differences. The place I‘d least like to sail again is Superior after Labor Day. I gave my knowledge of the waters since the wreak was not likely to have been caused by leaving portholes open… since the cargo areas of ore boats have no portholes.

See pics of about a dozen ore boats at Great Lakes Iron Ore Shipping Totals Surpass Last Year's.

Note the 16 to 18 foot differences in the water level of loaded vs empty ships. Ore boats return to Lake Superior empty; there is no return cargo.

 

[Deus Ex Machiato]

I grew up watching the freighters go by on the river. When you see one up close, it is mind blowing to think that something that big could just snap in half and sink in minutes. But that's what the lakes can do.

 

[mofocat]

As a kid (8-10yrs) in the late 50s I spent summers on the beach of the Saginaw Bay. Every day I would see 4-6(?) of these 'freighters' pass on the horizon. To this day I'm not sure if those were heading for the Saginaw River or 'over the Thumb' to the East. I think they had to be going up the Saginaw River. To pass over the thumb would have to be 80 or so mi. to the North, much too far to be seen from Linwood Beach near Bay City. We moved to CA in the Fall of '59.

 

[DavidEduardo]

I grew up watching the freighters go by on the river. When you see one up close, it is mind blowing to think that something that big could just snap in half and sink in minutes. But that's what the lakes can do.

Yep, they are built in three sections, a stern, a bow and the cargo container. Think of one as a boxcar with and engine in the rear and the conductor and crew in the front section. You get from front to rear over the deck; there is no inside walkway (or wasn't when I saw some up close in the early 60's). Great Lakes storms come up much faster than open ocean ones, and the waves are not as tall and much closer spaced.

There is one theory that the storm was more like an ocean storm, with waves that lifted the bow and stern and stressed the cargo area which could not sustain itself.

 

[DavidEduardo]

As a kid (8-10yrs) in the late 50s I spent summers on the beach of the Saginaw Bay. Every day I would see 4-6(?) of these 'freighters' pass on the horizon. To this day I'm not sure if those were heading for the Saginaw River or 'over the Thumb' to the East. I think they had to be going up the Saginaw River. To pass over the thumb would have to be 80 or so mi. to the North, much too far to be seen from Linwood Beach near Bay City. We moved to CA in the Fall of '59.

When very young, I would go to "The Soo" every summer for a couple of days with an easy to get chart of the stacks of the different lines... Cleveland Cliffs was my favorite... and I'd try to see as many different shipping lines as I could.

Some went to Detroit directly, many more went to Toledo and Cleveland. Some ore was partly refined in the UP and the Duluth area into "pebbles" while other shipments were pure straight-out-of-the-ground ore.

The most impressive thing for a 12-year-old kid was to stand on the deck and look towards the stern at all the hatches. It seemed like the size of several football fields!

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

It always amazed me that songs about Michigan and the Great Lakes region were big nationally or internationally. We were so used to being inundated by The Beach Boys, Jan and Dean, The Mamas and the Papas, and the whole San Francisco scene circa "The Summer Of Love" in the 1960s, that the "Wreck" seemed out of place in the 70s. Even Motown and the outstate Garage bands really weren't that much about Michigan, unless you know where to look in the lyrics. A lot of Bob Seger songs are semi autobiographical for instance.

I had a classmate and neighbor whose family went to Bay City State Park in their Airstream Camper every weekend, but he was too busy with the "Campfire Girls" there to pay attention to the freighters.

 

[mofocat]

I think it was just a couple years after we moved to The Great Central Valley from Bay City on Saginaw Bay that the classic "Saginaw Michigan" became a huge country crossover hit. Motown was just getting started. Stevie Wonder from Saginaw busted out as a 12 yr old wonder in '63.
In my high school years ? And The Mysterians' "96 Tears" was HUGE. 50 years later I learned that the song was recorded just blocks from where I had lived in Bay City. And then there is Madonna.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Ciccone Vineyards is just a short hop from where David used to go near Traverse City. It's a well known Tourist Trap. Tony was a client of mine for a short time circa 1983 before almost anyone knew who Madge was. He was reportedly dismissed from the family vineyard for drinking up the profits. Madge was BORN in Bay City, but lived in Rochester Hills, very near Bob Seger's longtime practice acreage, and very near where Chuck Mitchell's family lived at the time of Chuck's short lived marriage to Joni. They played the Coffee House circuit from there and the Cass Corridor near WSU in the 1966-1968 era. Gordon Lightfoot lived with them for a short while, as I mentioned. CFOR 1570 and Gordon's Birthplace are all I know about Orillia. Very few people know that Linda Ronstadt's mother's whole family was from Flint. Linda's grandfather was a famous inventor, Lloyd Copeman. Linda is more German than Mexican, but it sure combined genetically for a stunningly beautiful result!

 

[Deus Ex Machiato]

Great Lakes storms come up much faster than open ocean ones, and the waves are not as tall and much closer spaced.

There is also the issue of buoyancy. Ships on the fresh water lakes sit lower in the water than they do on the salt water ocean. You can experience the difference for yourself. Spend awhile floating in the surf at a sunny California beach, and you can waft on the waves if it's not too blustery. Spend awhile in the same size waves on the shore of Lake Michigan, and you feel like you've gone 10 rounds with a prize fighter.

 

[DavidEduardo]

There is also the issue of buoyancy. Ships on the fresh water lakes sit lower in the water than they do on the salt water ocean.

Excellent additional point. Add that to the fact that ore boats are designed for the Great Lakes, and don't go into salt waters, that's quite a significant difference when a storm that was obviously bigger than the ship had ever experienced blew up.

You can experience the difference for yourself. Spend awhile floating in the surf at a sunny California beach, and you can waft on the waves if it's not too blustery. Spend awhile in the same size waves on the shore of Lake Michigan, and you feel like you've gone 10 rounds with a prize fighter.

Or you sink like a rock!

To try this out, just do old fashioned floating in Grand Traverse Bay off Lake Michigan, Luquillo in Puerto Rico or in Great Salt Lake! (You will also have great fun in the process)

 

[DavidEduardo]

Ciccone Vineyards is just a short hop from where David used to go near Traverse City.

Yeah, it is about 20 minutes south of Omena Point where my sister has her place.