Why is Radio So Dull?

[Shredder]

With the exception of KTU, and the Rap Stations, every other station plays the same old crap.

You listen to WPLJ for two hours, you hear their entire morning to 8PM lineup of songs. Probably 20-40 in all, if that many. Turn to 106.7 FM, you might hear a few new ones, but mostly it's the same songs.

Not that all the new stuff is crap when it comes out, but when they play the SAME STUFF over and over again, sometimes even during the same hour break, you get real sick of it. That guy who wrote Mambo #5 had a great little song, but the stations helped killed his career, if he had another song in him, because they played his one hit add nausea and people where tired of it within a month. I know I was .

If it weren't for the morning and Afternoon Drive on WPLJ, and Big Joe Henry on 101.5, I'd be more than happy to never listen to the radio again.. Anyone think it'll change anytime soon?

Oh, and WHY is every song a love song? Aren't there any other subjects to sing a bout?

 

[SoulCrusher]

With the exception of KTU, and the Rap Stations, every other station plays the same old crap.

You listen to WPLJ for two hours, you hear their entire morning to 8PM lineup of songs. Probably 20-40 in all, if that many. Turn to 106.7 FM, you might hear a few new ones, but mostly it's the same songs.

Not that all the new stuff is crap when it comes out, but when they play the SAME STUFF over and over again, sometimes even during the same hour break, you get real sick of it. That guy who wrote Mambo #5 had a great little song, but the stations helped killed his career, if he had another song in him, because they played his one hit add nausea and people where tired of it within a month. I know I was .

If it weren't for the morning and Afternoon Drive on WPLJ, and Big Joe Henry on 101.5, I'd be more than happy to never listen to the radio again.. Anyone think it'll change anytime soon?

Oh, and WHY is every song a love song? Aren't there any other subjects to sing a bout?

I would put the Rap stations in the "same old crap" category as well. Really, how often do these stations play anything earlier than the late '90s these days? Maybe they will play Biggie occasionally, but they probably wouldn't if he wasn't from NYC. It's all the same tired tracks these days, and they're all about bling, women, and corny dances like "Shoulder Lean". Rap has been around for over a quarter of a century, and I would like to see at least one of the stations reflect that. Heck, I wouldn't even call Hot 97 a Rap station anymore - they're more like CHR/Rhythmic with all the pop acts like Cassie and Justin Timberlake that they're playing these days.

 

[kws31a]

...because the "suits" refuse to give the listeners what they want. I believe most listeners want more variety in formats, and that just doesn't happen anymore. It's all about the advertising $$$ and that's it! Until someone takes a chance with a missing format and targets the audience with great personalities, radio will remain dull! Thank heavens for Satelitte radio!

 

[neo11]

Exactly, radio is dull because it's programmed to the lowest common denominator. Contrary to what David Eduardo thinks, not only do I work in radio but I know the business very well. It doesn't mean that I agree with how it's run. In any case, stations only play the music that they feel their audience as a whole wants to hear, so they pick the top 300 or 400 songs out of a music test and only put those on rotation, with only a certain amount getting heavy rotation. The problem with that is repetition, and it ends up being counterproductive because then people get tired of listening to the radio, or find it dull.

In the case of a rap or pop station, they will also tell you that since those stations have a low TSL (time spent listening), the stations want to serve up the hits, over and over again. And that makes sense. But, it's more than just playing the top albums over and over again. It's the presentation. It's the other songs you play around the hits. Most of the country has lame, cookie-cutter CHR or hip-hop stations that sound exactly the same from one market to another, have no feel or personality to them. If people just want to hear music without personality, they'll listen to their mp3 player or a CD or get satellite radio.

And yes, I still maintain that this strategy will kill radio in the end, despite what certain people have to say. When's the last time you heard anything innovative on commercial radio?

 

[Shredder]

I'll stick with WPLJ, because that's the only station I usually tune into regularly, although I find myself listening more and more to Jack FM, if only they'd get rid of the songs the other stations play!

For those who know, PLJ has a Flush the Format weekend on Friday. Even this has gotten rather dull latley, as they usually just play the dance songs in their rotation. Occasionally we'll hear a new one, (Was it Run Johnny Run that Scott played a few weeks ago? I think that was the songs name). It wasn't great, but at least it was something DIFFERENT and for that I applaud Scott for getting it past the stations programmers . I also thought I'd never hear them open the show with Curly Shuffle on one hit wonder Wensday, but instead of playing more rarely heard songs, we get the same old stuff again, even if they where only one hit wonders. They mentioned Pac-Man fever, but backed out quickly probably because it wasn't a safe play. Even if it's a terrible song, I've never heard it and would have welcomed it whole heartedly .

I gave them this idea, which I hope they really consider. Do a TRUE flush the format on April fools day this year. Give them classicaly sounding movie songs from stuff like Terminator, or Star Wars. Musical Movie songs like Willy Wonka, or Marry Poppins...Give them Parody songs like Star Trekkin', or that song Nimoy sang talked in his Spock character. hell, even give them kids songs like C is for Cookie, or Bein' Green....just to see what kind of response they get. I'm really hoping if they take this idea up, the response is rather positive!

 

[OldGringo]

Exactly, radio is dull because it's programmed to the lowest common denominator. Contrary to what David Eduardo thinks, not only do I work in radio but I know the business very well. It doesn't mean that I agree with how it's run. In any case, stations only play the music that they feel their audience as a whole wants to hear, so they pick the top 300 or 400 songs out of a music test and only put those on rotation, with only a certain amount getting heavy rotation. The problem with that is repetition, and it ends up being counterproductive because then people get tired of listening to the radio, or find it dull.

Only it is not that simple. CHR or Churbans play around 100 songs... classic rockers or traditional country stations and some ACs may play 500+ cuts. It all depends on how many songs have a net score that is positve with very few negatives. Nobody is out there saying "which of these 700 songs that tested will we play so we can get the list down to 300."

Stations play as many songs as test postive. In most formats that appeal to 25-54, there are around 300-400 songs. I have seen more, and have seen less.

If you do reach & frequency on 400 non-current songs, you realize that the averasge listener does not hear them that often.

In the case of a rap or pop station, they will also tell you that since those stations have a low TSL (time spent listening), the stations want to serve up the hits, over and over again. And that makes sense. But, it's more than just playing the top albums over and over again. It's the presentation. It's the other songs you play around the hits. Most of the country has lame, cookie-cutter CHR or hip-hop stations that sound exactly the same from one market to another, have no feel or personality to them. If people just want to hear music without personality, they'll listen to their mp3 player or a CD or get satellite radio.

Sorry, but there is little rap these days, except for old school. There is hip hop, which is a big part of CHR and, of course, Churban. The prime demos for this kind of format want lots of plays on favorites. If you up the song count, the TSL and the cume fall.

The fact that stations sound the same across America is nothing new. Top 40's of the 50's sounded the same, just that they were better in the bigger markets due to money. There is no new discovery here.

And yes, I still maintain that this strategy will kill radio in the end, despite what certain people have to say. When's the last time you heard anything innovative on commercial radio?

Yesterday?

 

[sp113]

With the exception of KTU, and the Rap Stations, every other station plays the same old crap.
Oh, and WHY is every song a love song? Aren't there any other subjects to sing a bout?

Two thoughts off the top of my head...

Because radio station owners have found a way to make TONS of money, without having to be creative.

And...

Sale prices of radio stations have skyrocketed, and the stakes are just too high to take a chance on something new. It's safer to stay with the "tried and true".

 

[sp113]

Contrary to what David Eduardo thinks....

You haven't been on these discussion boards long have you?

We've all found out that David Eduardo knows *everything*!!!

Just ask him! ;-)

 

[Jeffrey]

[

And yes, I still maintain that this strategy will kill radio in the end, despite what certain people have to say. When's the last time you heard anything innovative on commercial radio?

WQCD's try of the Chill format was the last time anything creative was tried in New York.
Sadly QCD deemed the format a failure. They couldn't appeal to the mixes of mismatched demographics they were trying to appeal to.
I gave them credit for trying however. They should have simply gone all the way and could have filled a real niche in a city that would embrace sounds originating from Ibiza.

 

[asoundhound]

I thought that if QCD had gone pure Chill and stuck with it long enough, they could have really made an impact with it. I think on the rare occasion something like this is tried, it's rarely stuck with long enough before they panic and go back to a "normal" format. Given enough time, Chill could have worked in NYC. Surely couldn't do worse than Jack.

 

[8638]

I really liked "New York Chill"....which destined it to failure!! No one wants to format to a 46 yo white dude; after all, we are all halfway to dead, set in our ways, spend no money, etc.

 

[OldGringo]

Contrary to what David Eduardo thinks....

You haven't been on these discussion boards long have you?

We've all found out that David Eduardo knows *everything*!!!

Just ask him! ;-)

Nobody knows everything, but we tend to have an opinion about everything. Except for the few things in radio we can quantfy, like profits, ratings, population, etc., all the rest is open to discussion. There are many, many ways to get audience just as on the sales side there are many sales techniques that work.

A message board is a place to test your opinion against other opinions and to occasionally learn something in the process.

Yeah, I have an opinion on just about everything.

 

[john77]

Exactly, radio is dull because it's programmed to the lowest common denominator. Contrary to what David Eduardo thinks, not only do I work in radio but I know the business very well. It doesn't mean that I agree with how it's run. In any case, stations only play the music that they feel their audience as a whole wants to hear, so they pick the top 300 or 400 songs out of a music test and only put those on rotation, with only a certain amount getting heavy rotation. The problem with that is repetition, and it ends up being counterproductive because then people get tired of listening to the radio, or find it dull.

In the case of a rap or pop station, they will also tell you that since those stations have a low TSL (time spent listening), the stations want to serve up the hits, over and over again. And that makes sense. But, it's more than just playing the top albums over and over again. It's the presentation. It's the other songs you play around the hits. Most of the country has lame, cookie-cutter CHR or hip-hop stations that sound exactly the same from one market to another, have no feel or personality to them. If people just want to hear music without personality, they'll listen to their mp3 player or a CD or get satellite radio.

And yes, I still maintain that this strategy will kill radio in the end, despite what certain people have to say. When's the last time you heard anything innovative on commercial radio?

That is perhaps the most intelligent, well thought out post I've ever seen here... OUTSTANDING!

 

[john77]

Contrary to what David Eduardo thinks....

You haven't been on these discussion boards long have you?

We've all found out that David Eduardo knows *everything*!!!

Just ask him! ;-)

The only one who knows *everything* is the man above... last time I checked, he wasn't posting on any bulletin boards I'm aware of...

 

[john77]

For those who know, PLJ has a Flush the Format weekend on Friday. Even this has gotten rather dull latley, as they usually just play the dance songs in their rotation. Occasionally we'll hear a new one, (Was it Run Johnny Run that Scott played a few weeks ago? I think that was the songs name). It wasn't great, but at least it was something DIFFERENT and for that I applaud Scott for getting it past the stations programmers . I also thought I'd never hear them open the show with Curly Shuffle on one hit wonder Wensday, but instead of playing more rarely heard songs, we get the same old stuff again, even if they where only one hit wonders. They mentioned Pac-Man fever, but backed out quickly probably because it wasn't a safe play. Even if it's a terrible song, I've never heard it and would have welcomed it whole heartedly .

I gave them this idea, which I hope they really consider. Do a TRUE flush the format on April fools day this year. Give them classicaly sounding movie songs from stuff like Terminator, or Star Wars. Musical Movie songs like Willy Wonka, or Marry Poppins...Give them Parody songs like Star Trekkin', or that song Nimoy sang talked in his Spock character. hell, even give them kids songs like C is for Cookie, or Bein' Green....just to see what kind of response they get. I'm really hoping if they take this idea up, the response is rather positive!

Good to see Mr. Shannon is still up to his old tricks... one of my favorite bits he had when he was out here in L.A. on KQLZ was "flush the station"... those were good times... Good luck with the idea!!!

 

[SDRMATT]

most all pd's are afraid to try anything new. they just take what smaller markets test,see what works then take it. plus they all wanna hire a stand up comic or someone who has built fame another way to host their shows.

 

[Geb]

Why are radio geeks so dull?

 

[KevinFodor]

...because the "suits" refuse to give the listeners what they want. I believe most listeners want more variety in formats, and that just doesn't happen anymore. It's all about the advertising $$$ and that's it! Until someone takes a chance with a missing format and targets the audience with great personalities, radio will remain dull! Thank heavens for Satelitte radio!

Mostly, dead wrong!

If you work in the business (as I have for almost 35 years), then you know that radio stations, especially those in market #1 research their product to the nth degree. The stations are programmed from the results of that research.

Who is reseached? Actual listeners! They tell the stations what they like (and don't like) about a station. They tell us what songs they like (and, more importantly) what songs they don't like. That's why the short playlists. If you actually look at a music test, you'd be shocked to discover most people can't even remember the names of more than about 300 songs...so, is it any wonder why, when you test 800-1000, you can't get more than about 300 to test? Why should any station play songs a majority of listeners don't like...don't remember...or never heard of?

You are right on a couple of points. It is all about the $$$$. But, why not? I refuse to apologize for the fact that radio
is a business. You don't spend umpteen millions of dollars to buy a station not to make money with it.

"Take a chance with a missing format"? That's an absolute recipe for disaster. Not that new formats can't be
developed (they certainly can), but you don't gamble. You research to find the format holes in the market and if one
exists, you fill it.

"Most listeners want a variety of formats". Then, why do the stations with the tightest playlists always win in the ratings? Radio simply cannot please everyone all of the time. You have to find the music that most everyone agrees on and play it. The problem is: people don't listen to radio the same way, or the same length of time. If they did, playlists
could be more open. Also, if there were fewer stations, each station could be more open. (Remember the 1960's? When WABC could play the Beatles, the Rolling Stones and Frank Sinatra?) Competition also forces radio stations to narrowcast.

"Great personalities." On this, I will agree radio should do more. Radio, as an industry, has done a lousy job of bringing along young air talent and developing them. But, that doesn't just mean turning the station loose at the hands of a jock.
Radio should find people who can execute their formats well, and have the talent and ability to know when to break the rules. Then, let them do what they do best. The most successful air personalities know this. Even great jocks in the tightest of formats have always been able to get their "personality" through.

"Thank heavens for satellite radio!" I think there's a market for satcasting. But, seeing sales figures for XM and Sirius down 20% or more for the 4th quarter doesn't seem to tell me that people are beating down the doors, or renewing their
subscriptions in large numbers.