Too many pirate stations

[WCWalker]

The FCC is too busy trying to handle issues with licensed stations to go out and hunt down pirates. Unless they receive a complaint about a FM Pirate, they simply don't bother looking. There are so many licensed stations that are not complying with FCC regulations that the FCC would rather go after them. Let's face it, it is far easier to fine a licensed station and actually receive the money than it is to fine a pirate.

 

[Gatekeeper007]

I will tell you today's climate is next to impossible to survive for most LPFM stations muchless make any money. The idea that most LPFM stations are poorly run and use cheap or bad equiment is just not true, of course there are some and getting help to run an LPFM is next to impossible at least in my area most of the radio older talant out there would rather be out of work than come help an LPFM for little or no pay, trust me I know. As for trying to get things done thru the FCC like new stations, upgrades, improvements, ect... is almost impossible at times due to the high cost and paperwork or simply the very long time involved in waiting for an open window or all the circumstances in the area that you want a station working out under all the rules muchless the cost, believe me I know full well as we have tried many times to change something only to find out that either a window needed to be open which hasn't open in many years or there is some rule that stops what you are trying to do even though everything is legal and fits into the FCC guidelines for operation. I am not saying that pirate stations should be on the air with no rules causing interference but with the way things are setup right now I can sure understand why they are there.

 

[emmar]

Do you want some cheese to go with that whine?

If the FCC didn't make it so expensive and such a clusterphuck of paperwork for someone to start a legal commercial station, there wouldn't be so many Pirates.

Let the posting begin!

Exactly right. If the FCC would allow people to apply for licenses, everything would be great and organized. I live in a small town with 90% of the FM airwaves wide open, why can I not apply for a license to have one of the *many* open frequencies? It's a money game.

OP, I don't know why you're complaining. Airwaves aren't anyones to own, pirates are simply giving you more of a choice of what you listen to. I don't support putting up a 1KW transmitter and interfering with another station, but with an open frequency I support anyone who takes their liberties into their own hands.

That's like the argument for making drug use legal. That doesn't make it right. A crime is still a crime. You don't eliminate crime by eliminating laws.

You certainly do eliminate crime by eliminating pointless laws. Take a look at prohibition or the war on drugs. More crime is created because alcohol or drugs are illegal. It fits the same idea with making it near impossible to ever get a broadcast license.

 

[TheBigA]

If the FCC would allow people to apply for licenses, everything would be great and organized. I live in a small town with 90% of the FM airwaves wide open, why can I not apply for a license to have one of the *many* open frequencies? It's a money game.

Huh? The applications are at the web site. You want an invitation? If you can't figure out the application process, you're not going to be able to handle anything else.

 

[FreddyE1977]

Not really a problem in my area, as the last major pirate that was heard here was
raided and shut down in 1998. Understand that is not the case in Florida and along
the Eastern Seaboard though.

 

[TexasTom]

If the FCC would allow people to apply for licenses, everything would be great and organized. I live in a small town with 90% of the FM airwaves wide open, why can I not apply for a license to have one of the *many* open frequencies? It's a money game.

Huh? The applications are at the web site. You want an invitation? If you can't figure out the application process, you're not going to be able to handle anything else.

That's a non-answer, since anyone who knows that process knows that you can't go to the FCC's website and just file an application for a new FM station. If there's not an open allotment in the FM Table of Allocations (and their probably won't be), you first have to initiate the rulemaking process to get a new frequency assigned to a particular location. And once you succeed at doing so, the FCC will just auction it off to the highest bidder, with no preference to whoever found the frequency and started the rulemaking process. The end result is that the finder very rarely ends up being the entity that ends up building a new station.

And even if you have deep enough pockets to be likely to prevail at auction (or an allotment that doesn't interest anyone else, so that it won't get bid up), you'll still have a long wait since the FCC only accepts applications during very specific periods of time ("filing windows"), and they don't open those filing windows very often. So you may have to wait a couple years just to file for the frequency that you found.

I sdon't condone piracy, but I have to say that the FCC's proces for applying for a new radio station is a nasty joke.

 

[TheBigA]

That's a non-answer, since anyone who knows that process knows that you can't go to the FCC's website and just file an application for a new FM station. If there's not an open allotment in the FM Table of Allocations (and their probably won't be), you first have to initiate the rulemaking process to get a new frequency assigned to a particular location.

Call me naive, but the comment I responded to said "I live in a small town with 90% of the FM airwaves wide open."

 

[w9wi]

That's a non-answer, since anyone who knows that process knows that you can't go to the FCC's website and just file an application for a new FM station. If there's not an open allotment in the FM Table of Allocations (and their probably won't be), you first have to initiate the rulemaking process to get a new frequency assigned to a particular location.

Call me naive, but the comment I responded to said "I live in a small town with 90% of the FM airwaves wide open."

I would ask, by what criteria does he believe 90% of the airwaves are open?

A principle that a lot of people don't understand is that a transmitter causes interference over a much wider area than the area to which it provides service.

(this is especially true for AM and TV, but it's also true for FM)

_________________________________________________

The FCC regards an FM station as capable of causing interference at signal levels as low as 34dBu 10% of the time -- a station must deliver at least 54dBu (and usually 60dBu) 50% of the time to be regarded as providing service.

To phrase it differently, a Class B station (like the major NYC and Chicago outlets) is regarded as providing service to a distance of 65km. It is capable of causing interference to another station on the same frequency to a distance of 172km.

You can argue the exact figures (it depends on how cheap of a radio & antenna you want to protect!) but with any figures, interference is caused at a greater distance than that to which service is provided.

_________________________________________________

What kind of radio was in use? Try scanning your dial with a "personal stereo" or the FM radio in your MP3 player or the clock radio in your bedroom. Write down how many frequencies have stations on them. Then repeat the experiment in your car. Chances are you'll find a LOT more stations on the car radio.

If the FCC authorizes stations on frequencies that sound open on a "personal stereo", those stations may cause interference to stations that are perfectly good in the car.

It's a bit of a dilemma for them. How cheap of a radio do you want to protect?

_________________________________________________

In other words, just because you can't hear a signal on a given frequency, doesn't necessarily mean that frequency is open.

Second response to follow...

 

[TheBigA]

In other words, just because you can't hear a signal on a given frequency, doesn't necessarily mean that frequency is open.

I understand that. I'll let the original poster respond. Blaming the FCC for the inability or unwillingness of the applicant to do due diligence is no excuse. If they can't handle the basic engineering required to fill out an application, they are unqualified to operate a station. My point is that the application process is open to all who have the knowledge to carry it out. It's not really a "money game," unless you don't know what you're doing. But one of the realities is that most of the frequencies are already taken. That doesn't justify squatting or interfering with someone else's facility.

 

[w9wi]

That's a non-answer, since anyone who knows that process knows that you can't go to the FCC's website and just file an application for a new FM station. If there's not an open allotment in the FM Table of Allocations (and their probably won't be), you first have to initiate the rulemaking process to get a new frequency assigned to a particular location. And once you succeed at doing so, the FCC will just auction it off to the highest bidder, with no preference to whoever found the frequency and started the rulemaking process. The end result is that the finder very rarely ends up being the entity that ends up building a new station.

And even if you have deep enough pockets to be likely to prevail at auction (or an allotment that doesn't interest anyone else, so that it won't get bid up), you'll still have a long wait since the FCC only accepts applications during very specific periods of time ("filing windows"), and they don't open those filing windows very often. So you may have to wait a couple years just to file for the frequency that you found.

I sdon't condone piracy, but I have to say that the FCC's proces for applying for a new radio station is a nasty joke.

Now, my previous post notwithstanding...

I agree fully with the above.

The auction part is unfortunately mandated by Congress; it's not entirely the FCC's fault. Doesn't make it any less problematic for those who want to provide a new station.

The filing windows thing is probably the nastier part of the joke. Actually, filing windows would be a good idea if they were held at regular, reasonable intervals. Every six months, something like that. This business of going years between windows -- and then spending years sorting out the results -- is a joke. (see FM translators... or the current non-commercial FM thing)

It is difficult to believe there is no way to handle applications on a more timely basis.

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I also think the minimum power thing is a problem, one that possibly infringes on the First Amendment. There are power levels at which it is possible to broadcast without causing interference, but which the Commission will not license, and at the same time they won't allow unlicensed operation. (try to get a license for a commercial station to serve Nashville's Somali neighborhood with a 40-watt transmitter & an antenna 30' above average terrain. It might not cause any interference, but the Commission won't license it.)

My DXing friends will hate me for this but... IMHO it should be possible to legally broadcast at any power level, as long as no interference is caused. Above some power level, a license should be required. (and I have no argument with the current figure)

 

[w9wi]

In other words, just because you can't hear a signal on a given frequency, doesn't necessarily mean that frequency is open.

I understand that. I'll let the original poster respond. Blaming the FCC for the inability or unwillingness of the applicant to do due diligence is no excuse. If they can't handle the basic engineering required to fill out an application, they are unqualified to operate a station. My point is that the application process is open to all who have the knowledge to carry it out. It's not really a "money game," unless you don't know what you're doing. But one of the realities is that most of the frequencies are already taken. That doesn't justify squatting or interfering with someone else's facility.

I'm not certain I can concur with the assertion it's not a money game, but for the rest I'm absolutely in agreement. Unless one is in Alaska, there is essentially zero chance that 90% of the FM dial is open for new stations.

(yes, if one *does* believe it's a money game, operating a pirate station & clobbering someone else's voice is not the way to fix it..)

 

[MarioMania]

How much does it cost get a license??

 

[nocomradio]

Piracy of the airwaves is a byproduct of the policies that are in place right now regulating the airwaves, plain and simple. It piracy right? Probably not. Is it illegal? You bet. Is it immoral? Depends on who you ask.

I've heard every argument from all sides and all have some valid points, but ultimately, I think every market has different issues, and in some cases, yes, the pirates are truly filling a void that is not being filled by a commercial station. Again, that is against the law and in some peoples' eyes, they need to hang, but honestly, I think there are bigger fish to fry. There are also the ones who go on air with the Chinese transmitter and interfere with everything and create total chaos and lead us closer to the end of times. [/sarcasm]

Here is my local market:

I am in a fairly rural area about 75 miles from a large city. This is an area made up of a large population of 60 and up folks who probably turn to the radio for more of their entertainment (musically speaking) than a iPod or the 'net. There is a lot of farmland and most of those guys out there on a tractor in the field or in the barn have the radio on much of the time. There isn't a huge population of 20-somethings. When I turn on the radio, I hear a bunch of canned voice-overs, advertisements for used car lots, and the like, Britney Spears, check cashing joints, pawn shops, and incessant station ID's. Just WHO is defining this demographic, when I have lived here my entire life and can see that there isn't anyone being served by this junk being piped over the air. The programming is aimed at a population that for the most part doesn't even exist here. Add to that, that a couple of the locals are completely automated, and programmed by the corporate giants, and you get the good 'ol standby 300 song playlist with 20 minutes per hour of commercials. it makes it really hard to listen for more than a couple of hours and impossible to listen for more than a couple of days.

I'd welcome a decent and conscientious pirate in all honesty. At least then there would be someone who might actually live in and know the community in which they were trying to serve. I'd welcome a LPFM even more, but I doubt it will ever happen unless they are broadcasting a strongly religious viewpoint.

 

[TexasTom]

That's a non-answer, since anyone who knows that process knows that you can't go to the FCC's website and just file an application for a new FM station. If there's not an open allotment in the FM Table of Allocations (and their probably won't be), you first have to initiate the rulemaking process to get a new frequency assigned to a particular location.

Call me naive, but the comment I responded to said "I live in a small town with 90% of the FM airwaves wide open."

Doesn't matter, because he'll still have to go through the same process of initiating a rulemaking and then waiting a couple years or more for the FCC to open a filing window. And while the prices may not get as high at auction as in a more populated area, the poster would still have to go through the auction process with little guarantee of prevailing and getting to build on the frequency he had originally found.

The bottom line is that the system that exists today for authorizing new stations is a really bad one if the goal is anything other than bringing in some money for the federal treasury.

 

[TexasTom]

The auction part is unfortunately mandated by Congress; it's not entirely the FCC's fault. Doesn't make it any less problematic for those who want to provide a new station.

The filing windows thing is probably the nastier part of the joke. Actually, filing windows would be a good idea if they were held at regular, reasonable intervals. Every six months, something like that. This business of going years between windows -- and then spending years sorting out the results -- is a joke. (see FM translators... or the current non-commercial FM thing)

I agree with you on the spacing of the filing windows. But I suspect that the reason for the infrequent windows is that it results in more channels going up for auction in each auction, which may increase interest in the auctions and result in more money being raised. Does that serve any sort of public interest? Not really...but it's been a long time since we've had an FCC that seems to care very much about any of the broadcast services.

As for the congressional mandate to use spectrum auctions, there's a story behind that. After the courts struck down the FCC's comparative criteria somewhere around 1994, the courts ordered the FCC to fix the comparative criteria to comply with the court ruling. Rather than doing that, the FCC punted, and asked the congress to solve the problem by mandating spectrum auctions for competing commercial broadcast applications. So, yeah...the mandate came from the congress, but it came at the request of an FCC that didn't want to have to bother with fixing it's comparative criteria.

 

[MarioMania]

Can anyone answer my question

How much does it cost get a license?? FM or AM

 

[TomT]

That's about like asking how much it will cost to go to the Superbowl---in 2016.

Let's look at AM. The FCC has to announce that an application "window" will be opened. You will then have to engage a consultant to determine if you can build a full-time (no more daytime stations) in your area. You will also have engage a communications lawyer to help you with planning for the "best" application to meet the FCC's criteria. Then you have to plan on bidding for the right to get a construction permit if your application turns out to be mutually exclusive (i.e. where there are two of you seeking an AM, but only one can be built because of technical factors, such as wanting to use the same frequency in the same general area).

Now let's look at commercial FM. Unlike AM, you can only apply for FM channels that have been "allotted" to a particular town. If you want an FM in "anytown,Wisconsin" then you have to have a consultant find an open frequency and request the FCC allot it to that town. Once that is done, you sit and wait until the FCC opens an FM window. They will have set a minimum bid amount on that channel, and you need to make a deposit for enough "bidding credits" to get in the auction. You still have to outbid anyone else interested in that channel. Then, once you pay the FCC, you can send in your application for the construction permit & build the station.

Finally, Non-commercial and LPFM: Non-commercial (88.1 to 91.9) just had a window--no money required to be paid, but one needed to have a completed application ready to go when that window opened. If there were competing applications, the FCC had a point system to rank everyone applying for a particular channel--whoever got the most points won the C.P. The expense would have been in hiring a consultant to find an open frequency--keeping in mind the point system as well in designing the station (points awarded for first or second service, & for population covered, as well as for how the applicant was structured). A communications lawyer would have been helpful as well.

LPFM: Similar process, except the engineering for the LPFM station is simpler (no directional antennas, required to meet minimum spacing to existing stations rather than contour overlaps). Again, once the window is announced, one would need to have a completed application ready to go in. If there are two applicant for one town, decision based on point factors. Costs lower because of the simpler engineering requirements.

In any event, once you go through the process to get a C.P. you still have the expense of building the station. Which is a whole 'nother discussion.

Bottom line: Want to get in radio? save you pennies and buy a station.

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

Yup! Get your "feet wet" and go try to save a dying AM station. It CAN be done with the right situation. I'm the contract engineer with one that was a real turd that got polished up fairly nicely. It's a 1kw on a graveyard freq. on one side of a metro. At night it doesn't even cover the whole metro. But, they've DOUBLED their billing. How? The new owner who believes in radio spend a few bucks cleaning up the tech and building itself and bought some Tieline units to do remotes, and hired a young ex-millitary guy that eats sports for lunch. They are out on the road more than they are in the studio. It's good for the clients, good for the visiablity of the station, and it helps keep people employed. DOUBLE the inflow folks. It can happen with the right format and right people involved!

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

And to clarify, the station was "making it" even before he bought it and improved things. He just maximized its capabilites. Radio needs more guys like this that have a few bucks to spend and are willing to invest in real radio.

 

[WPHA]

And to clarify, the station was "making it" even before he bought it and improved things. He just maximized its capabilites. Radio needs more guys like this that have a few bucks to spend and are willing to invest in real radio.

All I can say to that is, AMEN!!! ;D