TEN YEARS since the CBS/FOX change today

[BrainDeadPrez]

It was July 2, 1995 when the Big Change occurred...KDFW from CBS to FOX, KTVT from an independent superstation to CBS, KDAF from FOX to WB, and KXTX from WB back to independent (after only 6 months as a WB affiliate.) Remember the instructional programs that KDFW aired for weeks ahead of time, explaining the shift and showing viewers where to tune for their favorite shows?

So, looking back, was this a good thing? Channel 4's news has never recovered from losing their CBS lead-in, and the later shift to being a FOX O-and-O has given their news a bad rep as just another blood-and-guts FOXcast. KTVT was the big winner, although they held their own for many years beforehand as perhaps the strongest independent in the Southwest, and later as a staple on many cable systems outside the area (ala WTBS.) KDAF lost out big-time, as they were tied in with FOX at the beginning of their rise to viability as a fourth network.

A long-forgotten fact: KXAS was approached first about taking the CBS affiliation before 11 was. Had that happened, Channel 5 would have had the dubious honor of being affiliated with all three major networks during their history (splitting time with ABC and NBC through 1957, then NBC exclusively after that.) KTVT had commitments to Rangers baseball that had to be honored, and CBS was very unhappy about that. (That was resolved for the balance of the 1995 Rangers season by nominating Channel 39 as the "alternate CBS station" and pawning the Rangers off elsewhere thereafter.)

But silly me, I still find myself subconsciously flipping to Channel 4 when I want to see a CBS program. I can't seem to break that old habit. And when a "Dallas" reunion or a CBS anniversary show comes on, it feels weird to be watching it on KTVT. And part of me still misses flipping on "I Love Lucy" and "Dick Van Dyke" at 5 and 5:30PM weekdays on Ch 11, "Bewitched" at 6 and "Adam-12" at 6:30, and perhaps another repeat of Dennis Weaver in "Duel" on the "9 O'Clock Movie."

 

[edwardrmurrow]

> It was July 2, 1995 when the Big Change occurred...KDFW from
> CBS to FOX, KTVT from an independent superstation to CBS,
> KDAF from FOX to WB, and KXTX from WB back to independent
> (after only 6 months as a WB affiliate.) Remember the
> instructional programs that KDFW aired for weeks ahead of
> time, explaining the shift and showing viewers where to tune
> for their favorite shows?
>
> So, looking back, was this a good thing? Channel 4's news
> has never recovered from losing their CBS lead-in, and the
> later shift to being a FOX O-and-O has given their news a
> bad rep as just another blood-and-guts FOXcast. KTVT was
> the big winner, although they held their own for many years
> beforehand as perhaps the strongest independent in the
> Southwest, and later as a staple on many cable systems
> outside the area (ala WTBS.) KDAF lost out big-time, as
> they were tied in with FOX at the beginning of their rise to
> viability as a fourth network.
>
> A long-forgotten fact: KXAS was approached first about
> taking the CBS affiliation before 11 was. Had that
> happened, Channel 5 would have had the dubious honor of
> being affiliated with all three major networks during their
> history (splitting time with ABC and NBC through 1957, then
> NBC exclusively after that.) KTVT had commitments to
> Rangers baseball that had to be honored, and CBS was very
> unhappy about that. (That was resolved for the balance of
> the 1995 Rangers season by nominating Channel 39 as the
> "alternate CBS station" and pawning the Rangers off
> elsewhere thereafter.)
>
> But silly me, I still find myself subconsciously flipping to
> Channel 4 when I want to see a CBS program. I can't seem to
> break that old habit. And when a "Dallas" reunion or a CBS
> anniversary show comes on, it feels weird to be watching it
> on KTVT. And part of me still misses flipping on "I Love
> Lucy" and "Dick Van Dyke" at 5 and 5:30PM weekdays on Ch 11,
> "Bewitched" at 6 and "Adam-12" at 6:30, and perhaps another
> repeat of Dennis Weaver in "Duel" on the "9 O'Clock Movie."
>
Yes Ch.11 won big. Ch.4 in the 30 plus years I have lived here has never impressed me. Their news isstill "cartoonish"and it seemed all they are interested in were barbie andKen anchors and reporters with a little melodrama here and there.The more things change the more they remain the same.

 

[snoman]

> > It was July 2, 1995 when the Big Change occurred...KDFW
> from
> > CBS to FOX, KTVT from an independent superstation to CBS,
> > KDAF from FOX to WB, and KXTX from WB back to independent
> > (after only 6 months as a WB affiliate.) Remember the
> > instructional programs that KDFW aired for weeks ahead of
> > time, explaining the shift and showing viewers where to
> tune
> > for their favorite shows?
> >
> > So, looking back, was this a good thing? Channel 4's news
>
> > has never recovered from losing their CBS lead-in, and the
>
> > later shift to being a FOX O-and-O has given their news a
> > bad rep as just another blood-and-guts FOXcast. KTVT was
> > the big winner, although they held their own for many
> years
> > beforehand as perhaps the strongest independent in the
> > Southwest, and later as a staple on many cable systems
> > outside the area (ala WTBS.) KDAF lost out big-time, as
> > they were tied in with FOX at the beginning of their rise
> to
> > viability as a fourth network.
> >
> > A long-forgotten fact: KXAS was approached first about
> > taking the CBS affiliation before 11 was. Had that
> > happened, Channel 5 would have had the dubious honor of
> > being affiliated with all three major networks during
> their
> > history (splitting time with ABC and NBC through 1957,
> then
> > NBC exclusively after that.) KTVT had commitments to
> > Rangers baseball that had to be honored, and CBS was very
> > unhappy about that. (That was resolved for the balance of
>
> > the 1995 Rangers season by nominating Channel 39 as the
> > "alternate CBS station" and pawning the Rangers off
> > elsewhere thereafter.)
> >
> > But silly me, I still find myself subconsciously flipping
> to
> > Channel 4 when I want to see a CBS program. I can't seem
> to
> > break that old habit. And when a "Dallas" reunion or a
> CBS
> > anniversary show comes on, it feels weird to be watching
> it
> > on KTVT. And part of me still misses flipping on "I Love
> > Lucy" and "Dick Van Dyke" at 5 and 5:30PM weekdays on Ch
> 11,
> > "Bewitched" at 6 and "Adam-12" at 6:30, and perhaps
> another
> > repeat of Dennis Weaver in "Duel" on the "9 O'Clock
> Movie."
> >
> Yes Ch.11 won big. Ch.4 in the 30 plus years I have lived
> here has never impressed me. Their news isstill
> "cartoonish"and it seemed all they are interested in were
> barbie andKen anchors and reporters with a little melodrama
> here and there.The more things change the more they remain
> the same.
>

Just think if you moved away for about ten years, and came back and didn't know what happened. Turn to Channel 8 to see Tracy Rowlett and he's now at 11, which is CBS, you figure that out when you go to watch the Rangers on Channel 11, which are now on sometimes 4, 27, and FSSW. You turn on 4 to catch Dan Rather and see "Fox 4". You get frustrated with the whole thing, turn on 39 to catch some old reruns and it's in Spanish. It's amazing how much the TV landscape is changed over that time. <P ID="signature">______________
"I Believe In The Power Of Love."
Luther Vandross 1951-2005</P>

 

[Scot]

> > > It was July 2, 1995 when the Big Change occurred...KDFW
> > from
> > > CBS to FOX, KTVT from an independent superstation to
> CBS,
> > > KDAF from FOX to WB, and KXTX from WB back to
> independent
> > > (after only 6 months as a WB affiliate.) Remember the
> > > instructional programs that KDFW aired for weeks ahead
> of
> > > time, explaining the shift and showing viewers where to
> > tune
> > > for their favorite shows?
> > >
> > > So, looking back, was this a good thing? Channel 4's
> news
> >
> > > has never recovered from losing their CBS lead-in, and
> the
> >
> > > later shift to being a FOX O-and-O has given their news
> a
> > > bad rep as just another blood-and-guts FOXcast. KTVT
> was
> > > the big winner, although they held their own for many
> > years
> > > beforehand as perhaps the strongest independent in the
> > > Southwest, and later as a staple on many cable systems
> > > outside the area (ala WTBS.) KDAF lost out big-time, as
>
> > > they were tied in with FOX at the beginning of their
> rise
> > to
> > > viability as a fourth network.
> > >
> > > A long-forgotten fact: KXAS was approached first about
> > > taking the CBS affiliation before 11 was. Had that
> > > happened, Channel 5 would have had the dubious honor of
> > > being affiliated with all three major networks during
> > their
> > > history (splitting time with ABC and NBC through 1957,
> > then
> > > NBC exclusively after that.) KTVT had commitments to
> > > Rangers baseball that had to be honored, and CBS was
> very
> > > unhappy about that. (That was resolved for the balance
> of
> >
> > > the 1995 Rangers season by nominating Channel 39 as the
> > > "alternate CBS station" and pawning the Rangers off
> > > elsewhere thereafter.)
> > >
> > > But silly me, I still find myself subconsciously
> flipping
> > to
> > > Channel 4 when I want to see a CBS program. I can't
> seem
> > to
> > > break that old habit. And when a "Dallas" reunion or a
> > CBS
> > > anniversary show comes on, it feels weird to be watching
>
> > it
> > > on KTVT. And part of me still misses flipping on "I
> Love
> > > Lucy" and "Dick Van Dyke" at 5 and 5:30PM weekdays on Ch
>
> > 11,
> > > "Bewitched" at 6 and "Adam-12" at 6:30, and perhaps
> > another
> > > repeat of Dennis Weaver in "Duel" on the "9 O'Clock
> > Movie."
> > >
> > Yes Ch.11 won big. Ch.4 in the 30 plus years I have lived
> > here has never impressed me. Their news isstill
> > "cartoonish"and it seemed all they are interested in were
> > barbie andKen anchors and reporters with a little
> melodrama
> > here and there.The more things change the more they remain
>
> > the same.
> >
>
> Just think if you moved away for about ten years, and came
> back and didn't know what happened. Turn to Channel 8 to
> see Tracy Rowlett and he's now at 11, which is CBS, you
> figure that out when you go to watch the Rangers on Channel
> 11, which are now on sometimes 4, 27, and FSSW. You turn on
> 4 to catch Dan Rather and see "Fox 4". You get frustrated
> with the whole thing, turn on 39 to catch some old reruns
> and it's in Spanish. It's amazing how much the TV landscape
> is changed over that time.
>
I lived in the D/FW market in the early 90's. Moved to Houston and returned here in 2001. KDAF definatly got the short end of the stick. KTVT may have lost out too. I remember when they were on satellite as a superstation. Living in San Antonio at the time it was cool to get "The Super Ones" on c-band sat. Seems there are no superstations left besides WGN (and WSBK on the east cost).

 

[snoman]

> >
> I lived in the D/FW market in the early 90's. Moved to
> Houston and returned here in 2001. KDAF definatly got the
> short end of the stick. KTVT may have lost out too. I
> remember when they were on satellite as a superstation.
> Living in San Antonio at the time it was cool to get "The
> Super Ones" on c-band sat. Seems there are no superstations
> left besides WGN (and WSBK on the east cost).
>

I'd be willing to bet that KTVT is a lot better off these days than they were when they were a "superstation". Their ratings have vastly improved. Do they have the households that they used to have, being on a lot of cable and satellite systems? No, but I'm sure they'd rather be where they are now, than they were back when they were an independent.

<P ID="signature">______________
"I Believe In The Power Of Love."
Luther Vandross 1951-2005</P>

 

[BrainDeadPrez]

"The
> > Super Ones" on c-band sat. Seems there are no
> superstations
> > left besides WGN (and WSBK on the east cost).
>

Technically, WTBS is still considered a 'superstation.' I didn't know until running a Google search last night that they are still broadcasting locally in Atlanta as WTBS on terrestrial Channel 17 as they have for many years. There are some subtle programming differences, but it looks like it's just to offer some occasional local-interest, community service programming.

 

[BrainDeadPrez]

Re: TEN YEARS - additional notes

> It was July 2, 1995 when the Big Change occurred...KDFW from
> CBS to FOX, KTVT from an independent superstation to CBS,
> KDAF from FOX to WB, and KXTX from WB back to independent
> (after only 6 months as a WB affiliate.)

Couple of additional notes here...KDFW's switch from CBS to FOX happened at 10PM on Saturday, July FIRST, 1995. I just ran across the tape today where I'd recorded it. The last CBS program shown on KDFW was "Walker, Texas Ranger." But since the FOX programming had already ended for the night anyway ("Mad TV" wasn't around yet,) the first true FOX-fed shows didn't start until the following day.

The instructional program was called "Are You Ready?" and was aired countless times on Ch 4 in anticipation of the changes. A phone bank was set up for clueless folks to get info on the change and for help in finding their favorite shows. Newly-toupee'd Jeff Crilley did numerous cutaways during the newscasts to plug the telethon-looking phone bank. And Ch 4 didn't hold back in plugging Ch 11 as the new CBS affiliate.

Also, KDAF inherited a lot of the syndicated programs that Ch 11 had been showing. "Cosby Show" reruns, once a big coup for KTVT, kept showing up in Crilley's example schedules as moving to 33.

One other big change I didn't mention earlier was KDFW's loss of a network-fed daytime schedule. No soaps, no game shows or anything to fill daytime with, leaving all the new FOX stations with oodles of time (and there were roughly 20 other "New World"-owned stations across the US who made the move to FOX around the same time, including KTBC in Austin.) Big advertising bucks were lost when "Young and the Restless" and "The Price is Right" moved, since 4 could only fill the time with syndie trash programming like Jerry Springer and other talk shows. I'm amazed that FOX *still* hasn't fixed that issue. Ch 4 is still no better off during the daytime hours than any of the local independent stations.

 

[Tom_Desmond]

> So, looking back, was this a good thing?

In my opinion, no.

As a result of the switch, KDFW/4 is quite a bit trashier than they used to be, with a daytime schedule filled with some really awful syndicated shows. Arguably, their news has taken on a rather pronounced tabloid feel in the intervening ten years.

KTVT/11 has gone from being a highly successful independent station to being (revenue-wise) fourth of the big four stations.

KDAF/33 actually came out of this okay, becoming one of the most successful WB affiliates in the country. In terms of ratings, they are actually very close to KDFW/4 on weekdays.

But overall, a lot of history has been lost in this market over the past ten years. Granted, not all of that is a result of the affiliate switch, but certainly some of it is. Both of our "legacy" independents (KTVT/11 and KXTX/39) are basically gone. We've also seen a general loss of station personality in this market, as the local stations have surrendered distinctive local IDs in favor of becoming generic "Fox 4", "NBC 5", "CBS 11", "UPN 21", and "Dallas/Fort Worth's WB".

 

[BrainDeadPrez]

We've also seen a general loss of station
> personality in this market, as the local stations have
> surrendered distinctive local IDs in favor of becoming
> generic "Fox 4", "NBC 5", "CBS 11", "UPN 21", and
> "Dallas/Fort Worth's WB".
>

Since most on your list have become "O-and-O" stations since, the networks are fueling and exploiting that connection between the local station and their network ownership. Even each of their websites do the same...although you can still punch in "kdfw.com" or "ktvt.com" and get to the right station, the ADVERTISED address is "fox4texas..." or "nbc5i.com" or similar. Channel 8 is the only major player that still keeps a local identity ("Spirit of Texas", used since the 1986 Sesquicentennial), but, of course, they're not network-owned.

And the independents (or pseudo-independents) make no bones about their association/LMA/ownership by or with their VHF counterparts...39 and 5, 8 and 52, 4 and 27, 11 and 21, etc. That used to be a not-so-advertised deal, but very exploited now, with "Oprah" reruns on 52, local newscast reruns on it and the others, etc.

 

[bhayes1016]

> Technically, WTBS is still considered a 'superstation.' I
> didn't know until running a Google search last night that
> they are still broadcasting locally in Atlanta as WTBS on
> terrestrial Channel 17 as they have for many years. There
> are some subtle programming differences, but it looks like
> it's just to offer some occasional local-interest, community
> service programming.
>

They run some E/I and public affairs shows on weekend early mornings to meet the FCC requirements.
OTOH, except for sporting events and the 9:00 news, WGN in Chicago and "WGN Superstation" have completely different programming.

 

[jd]

> We've also seen a general loss of station
> > personality in this market, as the local stations have
> > surrendered distinctive local IDs in favor of becoming
> > generic "Fox 4", "NBC 5", "CBS 11", "UPN 21", and
> > "Dallas/Fort Worth's WB".

As noted elsewhere Channel 8 is the only one that still has that local identity. But something that DIDN'T happen could have changed the landscape many years ago. Quoting from BDP's post earlier:

"A long-forgotten fact: KXAS was approached first about taking the CBS affiliation before 11 was. Had that happened, Channel 5 would have had the dubious honor of being affiliated with all three major networks during their history (splitting time with ABC and NBC through 1957, then NBC exclusively after that.)"

More than 30 years prior to the big switch, KTVT almost got a network affiliation. Seems that NBC wasn't happy with Channel 5's inadequate coverage of Dallas from their tower in east Fort Worth, and threatened to move over to Channel 11, which had moved to the Cedar Hill antenna farm. Channel 5 got busy and moved to Cedar Hill, and the rest is history: KTVT remained an independent until 1995.

 

[KERCAlum]

> I lived in the D/FW market in the early 90's. Moved to
> Houston and returned here in 2001. KDAF definatly got the
> short end of the stick. KTVT may have lost out too. I
> remember when they were on satellite as a superstation.
> Living in San Antonio at the time it was cool to get "The
> Super Ones" on c-band sat. Seems there are no superstations
> left besides WGN (and WSBK on the east cost).
>

Somewhere in my tape stash I still have an off-the-air recording of "The Muppets Take Manhattan" which aired on CBS back in the late '80s...and I recall the old CBS ID bumpers they used (and the 4 logo with the arrows) fondly. It's still neat to see those old IDs (and the network-to-local "jump" when the MCO would switch to a local break).

Wish I had one of their old newscasts on tape with Steve Bosh and a very young Clarice Tinsley (Kevin McCarthy on sports and Warren Culbertson on weather). They were still bad, but it would be interesting seeing that again.

And as far as superstations go, there's still KTLA/Channel 5 in LA, as well as WWOR/Channel 9 in NYC. You can still get them on Dish Network...there's like five of them in addition to TBS and WGN.<P ID="signature">______________
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." - Robert Heinlein

dan</P>

 

[bhayes1016]

> And as far as superstations go, there's still KTLA/Channel 5
> in LA, as well as WWOR/Channel 9 in NYC. You can still get
> them on Dish Network...there's like five of them in addition
> to TBS and WGN.
>

The others are WSBK Boston, WPIX New York, and KWGN Denver.
The original selling point for Superstations was sports...the only sports they have left now (other than the Braves and Chicago teams) are Mets baseball and Clippers basketball (the Yankees and Red Sox games are blacked out outside of their territories because they are simulcast with YES and NESN, respectively).

 

[RobDal]

Does TBS offer a local news program? Once while in Atlanta I thought it was strange hearing the complete 'Superstation WTBS 17' during their bumpers. Unfortunetly I wasnt't near a TV long enough to find out if they had local news.

 

[edwardrmurrow]

> Does TBS offer a local news program? Once while in Atlanta I
> thought it was strange hearing the complete 'Superstation
> WTBS 17' during their bumpers. Unfortunetly I wasnt't near a
> TV long enough to find out if they had local news.
>
WTBS used to when ncable started coming into vogue with Bill Tush( pronounced "Tush "NOT TOOSH"),but I haven't seen any reference to local news since.

 

[Stitch]

> > Does TBS offer a local news program? Once while in Atlanta
> I
> > thought it was strange hearing the complete 'Superstation
> > WTBS 17' during their bumpers. Unfortunetly I wasnt't near
> a
> > TV long enough to find out if they had local news.
> >
> WTBS used to when ncable started coming into vogue with Bill
> Tush( pronounced "Tush "NOT TOOSH"),but I haven't seen any
> reference to local news since.
>
The "TBS Evening News" ended around 1982-83 (possibly earlier). It was heavily dependent on CNN (but then, why wouldn't it be). The broadcast ran for an hour from 10:05pm-11:05pm, incorporating the 5 minute delay Turner had implemented.

 

[bpatrick]

> > > Does TBS offer a local news program? Once while in
> Atlanta
> > I
> > > thought it was strange hearing the complete
> 'Superstation
> > > WTBS 17' during their bumpers. Unfortunetly I wasnt't
> near
> > a
> > > TV long enough to find out if they had local news.
> > >
> > WTBS used to when ncable started coming into vogue with
> Bill
> > Tush( pronounced "Tush "NOT TOOSH"),but I haven't seen any
>
> > reference to local news since.
> >
> The "TBS Evening News" ended around 1982-83 (possibly
> earlier). It was heavily dependent on CNN (but then, why
> wouldn't it be). The broadcast ran for an hour from
> 10:05pm-11:05pm, incorporating the 5 minute delay Turner had
> implemented.
>
The TBS Evening News was a straight newscast, as opposed to
the comedy newscasts Tush did in the late '70s (he did things
like dress a dog as an anchor, and send up a balloon as a
satire on WXIA's helicopter, a new idea then).