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Similar Legal ID Question

S

Stick_Davis

Inactive
Inactive User
And I'd like to extend it to Television IDs, as well.

I've never been clear on this, but following the call letters, is the first city mentioned the only one that matters in a legal ID? Or could it be multiple cities required to complete the ID?

Take KC101 in New Haven, CT for example. They ID WKCI-FM Hamden/New Haven (and recently added Hartford, for effect I'm guessing). But could they simply ID as WKCI-FM Hamden? As long as we're talking Connecticut, how about television? WTNH-TV/DT New Haven/Hartford ... can they drop the Hartford?

Thanks!
 
depends on their licence. or more to the point, their city of licence.

years ago, sometime around 1980, the fcc relaxed the rules on what you could say AFTER the legal id. so, WABC New York/Chicago would be legal because the legal id (wabc new york) is there. prior to that rule change, the only way you could get another city legally in your id was to have a dual city of licence. WSTR Smyrna/Atlanta is an example (formerly WQXI-FM Smyrna/Atlanta) They had dual city-of-licence prior to the fcc relaxing that rule. so there are lots of stations that had dual city of licence before the change.

the logic of changing the rule seemed to be that as long as your LEGAL id was stated, what difference did it make if you mentioned some cities afterward. the wabc new york/chicago reference would be legal, but of course dumb. what station would mention cities that they don't actually serve? however, WHTZ Newark/New York is legal AND logical.

most of the stations that use that fcc rule relaxation to say another city are move-ins... what we used to call "arizona waivers." WFOX Gainesville/Atlanta is one of those. WBTS Athens/Atlanta is another. but you certainly don't hear WSB Atlanta/Athens.

Another example is WHYI. licenced to Ft Lauderdale, ID WHYI Ft Lauderdale/Miami. of course Ft Lauderdale is no small town, but the idea is the same.

i think "wkci-fm hamden" would actually be their legal id, their city of licence appears to be hamden.

TV? i dunno, probably the same way. oh, and of course there are things you can insert between the calls and the city of licence... frequency (or fm channel number), licencee. i'm just talking about what can come after the ID.



> And I'd like to extend it to Television IDs, as well.
>
> I've never been clear on this, but following the call
> letters, is the first city mentioned the only one that
> matters in a legal ID? Or could it be multiple cities
> required to complete the ID?
>
> Take KC101 in New Haven, CT for example. They ID WKCI-FM
> Hamden/New Haven (and recently added Hartford, for effect
> I'm guessing). But could they simply ID as WKCI-FM Hamden?
> As long as we're talking Connecticut, how about television?
> WTNH-TV/DT New Haven/Hartford ... can they drop the
> Hartford?
>
> Thanks!
>
<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
> depends on their licence. or more to the point, their city
> of licence.
>
> i think "wkci-fm hamden" would actually be their legal id,
> their city of licence appears to be hamden.
>
> TV? i dunno, probably the same way. oh, and of course
> there are things you can insert between the calls and the
> city of licence... frequency (or fm channel number),
> licencee. i'm just talking about what can come after the
> ID.

Well I guess that was more my question -- dual cities of license. Do those exist? And I guess the answer is yes.

I understand from a logical standpoint why it makes sense to throw in other cities in the legal ID, such as WHTZ or WHYI, but I wasn't sure if only the first city was required or if there was a such thing as dual city of license.
 
> > depends on their licence. or more to the point, their
> city
> > of licence.
> >
> > i think "wkci-fm hamden" would actually be their legal id,
>
> > their city of licence appears to be hamden.
> >
> > TV? i dunno, probably the same way. oh, and of course
> > there are things you can insert between the calls and the
> > city of licence... frequency (or fm channel number),
> > licencee. i'm just talking about what can come after the
> > ID.
>
> Well I guess that was more my question -- dual cities of
> license. Do those exist? And I guess the answer is yes.
>
> I understand from a logical standpoint why it makes sense to
> throw in other cities in the legal ID, such as WHTZ or WHYI,
> but I wasn't sure if only the first city was required or if
> there was a such thing as dual city of license.
>


Actually there are a few "real" dual-city legal ID's, like...

WNCY, Neenah-Menasha, WI. Neenah and Menasha are two separate cities, but their city of license is actually both cities, hyphenated.<P ID="signature">______________
The goal of the broadcast engineer is to make all the needles go as far to the right as possible.</P>
 
Thats like My LPFM.. its licensed for the City of Arrowhead Village,NJ
However the City of Arrowhead Village is Now absorbed into Brick Township from back in the 17-1800's
so We ID as WUPC Arrowhead Village-Brick,New Jersey.



> > > depends on their licence. or more to the point, their
> > city
> > > of licence.
> > >
> > > i think "wkci-fm hamden" would actually be their legal
> id,
> >
> > > their city of licence appears to be hamden.
> > >
> > > TV? i dunno, probably the same way. oh, and of course
> > > there are things you can insert between the calls and
> the
> > > city of licence... frequency (or fm channel number),
> > > licencee. i'm just talking about what can come after
> the
> > > ID.
> >
> > Well I guess that was more my question -- dual cities of
> > license. Do those exist? And I guess the answer is yes.
> >
> > I understand from a logical standpoint why it makes sense
> to
> > throw in other cities in the legal ID, such as WHTZ or
> WHYI,
> > but I wasn't sure if only the first city was required or
> if
> > there was a such thing as dual city of license.
> >
>
>
> Actually there are a few "real" dual-city legal ID's,
> like...
>
> WNCY, Neenah-Menasha, WI. Neenah and Menasha are two
> separate cities, but their city of license is actually both
> cities, hyphenated.
>
 
>
> Actually there are a few "real" dual-city legal ID's,
> like...
>
> WNCY, Neenah-Menasha, WI. Neenah and Menasha are two
> separate cities, but their city of license is actually both
> cities, hyphenated.
>

RadioDoc, in my original reply i mentioned that dual cites do appear on stations that had been granted them.... stations such as WSTR Smyrna/Atlanta that had dual city licence before the 80s. so yes, of course, there are "real" dual-city id's... i doubt any dual-city licences have been granted since the 80s though....

amos
<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
> >
> > Actually there are a few "real" dual-city legal ID's,
> > like...
> >
> > WNCY, Neenah-Menasha, WI. Neenah and Menasha are two
> > separate cities, but their city of license is actually
> both
> > cities, hyphenated.
> >
>
> RadioDoc, in my original reply i mentioned that dual cites
> do appear on stations that had been granted them....
> stations such as WSTR Smyrna/Atlanta that had dual city
> licence before the 80s. so yes, of course, there are "real"
> dual-city id's... i doubt any dual-city licences have been
> granted since the 80s though....
>
> amos
>

Actually, there is a difference. WSTR is "legally" licensed to Smyrna, but the FCC gave them permission way back when to include "Atlanta" in the ID, though it didn't modify the license (WSTR remains licensed to Smyrna). WNCY, however is actually licensed to both cities.

For example: WSTR could say "WSTR, Smyrna" and be legal. WNCY must use both cities, "WNCY, Neenah-Menasha" to be legal. It can't use one or the other alone.

What you bring up was a waiver that the FCC used to issue to allow a station to mention more than one city in a legal ID. Before they lightened the rule it used to be illegal to mention any other city than the city of license in an ID. In fact, one of my stations still has it's waiver from the 70's, though we don't need it anymore.

So yes, real dual-city licenses are rare.<P ID="signature">______________
The goal of the broadcast engineer is to make all the needles go as far to the right as possible.</P>
 
> What you bring up was a waiver that the FCC used to issue to
> allow a station to mention more than one city in a legal ID.
> Before they lightened the rule it used to be illegal to
> mention any other city than the city of license in an ID.
> In fact, one of my stations still has it's waiver from the
> 70's, though we don't need it anymore.
>
> So yes, real dual-city licenses are rare.

Back in the 1950's and 60's WYNG (1590) was licensed to:
Warwick-East Greenwich, Rhode Island. Station had to include
both in the ID's but really wanted to.

The designation would have been easier to get IF there had been
plans for a studio/office in each city. It took a waiver to be
able to get by with a single location, very close to the city line.

Hell of it is, the station was sold at about 4-years of age
and the new owners promptly set up a studio/office in
EG and did the morning drive show out of the front window
where there was tremendous interaction with the heavy commute
on U.S. Route 1 to the (then) Quonset Point Naval Air Station.

Since then the station has been sold a couple of times; the
call is now WARV and I'm not sure whether the dual COL still
exists.
<P ID="signature">______________
lesahab.jpg
Due to underwhelming popular demand...</P>
 
well cut my legs off and call me shorty. lol

i of course knew of dual city of licence... but i never knew any 'waivers' existed back in the day. i thought a station HAD to have dual city of licence to id that way... and, therefore, i thought wstr (formerly wqxi-fm) was LICENCED to smyrna-atlanta. if these waivers were easier to get than a dual city of licence, why would any station (back then) have tried to get dual col?
>
> Actually, there is a difference. WSTR is "legally" licensed
> to Smyrna, but the FCC gave them permission way back when to
> include "Atlanta" in the ID, though it didn't modify the
> license (WSTR remains licensed to Smyrna). WNCY, however is
> actually licensed to both cities.
>
> For example: WSTR could say "WSTR, Smyrna" and be legal.
> WNCY must use both cities, "WNCY, Neenah-Menasha" to be
> legal. It can't use one or the other alone.
>
> What you bring up was a waiver that the FCC used to issue to
> allow a station to mention more than one city in a legal ID.
> Before they lightened the rule it used to be illegal to
> mention any other city than the city of license in an ID.
> In fact, one of my stations still has it's waiver from the
> 70's, though we don't need it anymore.
>
> So yes, real dual-city licenses are rare.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
> well cut my legs off and call me shorty. lol
>
> i of course knew of dual city of licence... but i never knew
> any 'waivers' existed back in the day. i thought a station
> HAD to have dual city of licence to id that way... and,
> therefore, i thought wstr (formerly wqxi-fm) was LICENCED to
> smyrna-atlanta. if these waivers were easier to get than a
> dual city of licence, why would any station (back then) have
> tried to get dual col?
> >

That's a good question! It could be that neither of the towns separately meet the minimum requirements for an allocation, but together they do. That would make the most sense to me!

AFAIK, most stations that have a "real" dual COL were allocated by the FCC that way.<P ID="signature">______________
The goal of the broadcast engineer is to make all the needles go as far to the right as possible.</P>
 
> In fact, one of my stations still has it's waiver from the
> 70's, though we don't need it anymore.

Would that be your 'tosa licensed station?

-A<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
> > In fact, one of my stations still has it's waiver from the
>
> > 70's, though we don't need it anymore.
>
> Would that be your 'tosa licensed station?
>
> -A
>

You are correct, sir!<P ID="signature">______________
The goal of the broadcast engineer is to make all the needles go as far to the right as possible.</P>
 
> TV? i dunno, probably the same way. oh, and of course

Yep. Subpart H of the FCC regulations contains rules that are common to all three (AM, FM, TV) broadcast services. 73.1201 (Station Identification) is in this subpart.
 
KFMA-FM in Tucson has a dual license issued in the early 90's. Their licensed for Green Valley and Tucson.
 
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