Questions about AM on FM Translators

[Chad-Stevens]

Two questions about the new ruling allowing AM stations to be carried on FM translators:

1) I am assuming that translators in the 88-92 MHz NCE band could not relay a commercial AM station
2) Could an AM-on-FM translator carry a separate HD2 subchannel?

 

[w9wi]

Two questions about the new ruling allowing AM stations to be carried on FM translators:

1) I am assuming that translators in the 88-92 MHz NCE band could not relay a commercial AM station
2) Could an AM-on-FM translator carry a separate HD2 subchannel?

1. True -- though the FCC took it a step further and indicated they will not allow translators in the 88-92 band to relay any AM station. They seemed to feel that given the very small number of NCE AM stations, there would be no interest.

I'm not at all convinced that's true. Indeed, I know of two NCE AM stations that have "defacto" FM translators -- KUOM-770 Minneapolis, which is simulcast on Class D KUOM-FM (which in turn is on at least one translator..) and WHA-970 Madison, which is simulcast on out-of-town FM stations WHHI-91.3 and WHAD-90.7, each of which is in turn carried by translators on opposite sides of Madison... I have to think WILL-580 would like to have at least one translator as well, and I seem to recall a couple of daytime-only NCE AM stations in New England as well?

2. They didn't raise the subject in the Report and Order. I'd think you couldn't relay anything that wasn't being broadcast by the primary station, but in the last year the FCC has approved a bunch of things I thought they'd never allow.

 

[TheBigA]

I'd think you couldn't relay anything that wasn't being broadcast by the primary station,

That's my understanding...plus the power of a translater is probably insufficient to handle HD.

 

[TomT]

If the translator is relaying an AM station's programing, I don't think it could also be used to relay the HD-2 channel from another station--on HD.

There are composite receivers that claim to pass FM HD signals. Point is well taken that the amount of digital signal on the typical 100 watt translator would probably not be enough to carry HD out of site of the tower--more likely out of the parking lot below the translator.

Relaying HD-2 program on the main channel of a translator is discussed on another thread under engineering tech tips.

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

Here's another strange question for the group: If a God-channel wanted to rent a HD-2 of a LPFM to retransmit on their analog translator, would that be permissable? The big question really is if the LPFM could rent out their HD2 channel in the first place. I actually have a need for this as we are going to potentinally force a fairly popular God-channel off their translator frequency in the reserved band requireing them to come up with another way to get the signal from their mothership...

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Here's another strange question for the group: If a God-channel wanted to rent a HD-2 of a LPFM to retransmit on their analog translator, would that be permissable? The big question really is if the LPFM could rent out their HD2 channel in the first place.

Help me out here. I thought the licensing and hardware to do HD were quite expensive. Is it really practical to think that any LPFM will have an HD-2 for ANY purpose?

 

[fybush]

Here's another strange question for the group: If a God-channel wanted to rent a HD-2 of a LPFM to retransmit on their analog translator, would that be permissable? The big question really is if the LPFM could rent out their HD2 channel in the first place. I actually have a need for this as we are going to potentinally force a fairly popular God-channel off their translator frequency in the reserved band requireing them to come up with another way to get the signal from their mothership...

It's permissible, yes - but I'd check with a tax accountant to sort out the implications of that rental income on the LPFM's nonprofit status. There are also liability issues, since the LPFM licensee is responsible for any fines that might accrue from the programming of the HD2 lessee. And you've got the cost of the HD gear and licensing, too...but if the religious broadcaster is willing to pick up the tab, more power to ya.

 

[TexasTom]

Help me out here. I thought the licensing and hardware to do HD were quite expensive. Is it really practical to think that any LPFM will have an HD-2 for ANY purpose?

There's also the issue of the power level of the HD Radio sidebands for a LPFM. Under current rules, those sidebands must be at -20 dBc, which works out to 1.0 watts of HD Radio signal for a 100 watt LPFM. A proposal to allow the sidebands to increase to -14 dBc would boost that up to a whopping 4.0 watts...

Either way, I suspect that the coverage and building penetration would be truly awful.

 

[fybush]

Either way, I suspect that the coverage and building penetration would be truly awful.

Depends where it's coming from. I was in Manhattan a couple of weeks ago listening to HD on the "new" WQXR-FM 105.9, which is a 600-watt ERP B1 facility on the Empire State Building master antenna, 1450 feet above average terrain. That's 6 big watts of digital power...which did surprisingly well in lighting up my little Insignia portable down in lower Manhattan, at least out in the street. Inside buildings, it was a different story.

The same seems to be true in Los Angeles, where public radio KPCC 89.3 is 600 watts of analog, 6 whopping digital watts from Mount Wilson.

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

The God-channel is just looking for a rule-skirt to get audio to their translator across town. One watt would be fine. I'm hoping they could find some older HD encoder stuff in their chain somewhere and just let the LPFM use it for the whole deal. At 100 watts and 1 watt of digital I would think it wouldn't be hard to come up with for them if they really wanted to...