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Not Guilty!

A lot of people are upset and see this as OJ II but I don't think it is. I am convinced that Michael Jackson has molested children. I am NOT convinced that he molested THIS child. You can't send someone to prison because, like me, you are convinced in your gut he molested kids sometime, somewhere.

Unfortunately, the jury is going to be badly maligned. To me they seemed smart, attentive and hard working.<P ID="signature">______________
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague." - Oscar Wilde</P>
 
> A lot of people are upset and see this as OJ II but I don't
> think it is. I am convinced that Michael Jackson has
> molested children. I am NOT convinced that he molested THIS
> child. You can't send someone to prison because, like me,
> you are convinced in your gut he molested kids sometime,
> somewhere.
>
> Unfortunately, the jury is going to be badly maligned. To me
> they seemed smart, attentive and hard working.
>

I am not happy with the verdict - the fact that he walked away on *ALL* counts.... even if they could not PROVE he molested anybody, I thought he would have AT LEAST walked away with a probation. If this were you or me the verdict would NOT have been the same.

At least now we can all get on with our lives...<P ID="signature">______________
-DK</P>
 
<div align="justify"><font color=brown>"I am not happy with the verdict - the fact that he walked away on *ALL* counts.... even if they could not PROVE he molested anybody, I thought he would have AT LEAST walked away with a probation." <font color=black>

I'm not happy that such a scumbag is walking around free, but I don't blame the jury. The Santa Monica Prosecutor did a horrible job. Remember the day he announced the indictment? He was taunting Jackson much the way Mike Tyson was taunting his unheralded fight opponent last week the day before he got his ass kicked. Stupid.

<font color=brown>"If this were you or me the verdict would NOT have been the same." <font color=black>

I don't know if <u>you</u> are married but if it were me, I'd be begging to go to prison to keep my wife from delivering the death penalty.

<font color=brown>"At least now we can all get on with our lives." <font color=black>

Not so fast.. what about the civil trial? You don't think these grifters are going to let this drop do you?<P ID="signature">______________
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague." - Oscar Wilde</P>
 
Personally I thought the case had a lot of flaws from the beginning. But I believed the jury did the right thing in returning a not guilty verdict. And from watching the news conference with the jurors they seem honest with the descision that they made. I don't see this as being "OJ2" but at least Michael survives this latest scenario to perform another day.
 
> Not so fast.. what about the civil trial? You don't think
> these grifters are going to let this drop do you?

Yes. They were shown to be so scurvy that I doubt they have a chance in court.
 
The parents who left their kids alone with Michael are the ones who should go to jail!

> A lot of people are upset and see this as OJ II but I don't
> think it is. I am convinced that Michael Jackson has
> molested children. I am NOT convinced that he molested THIS
> child. You can't send someone to prison because, like me,
> you are convinced in your gut he molested kids sometime,
> somewhere.
>
> Unfortunately, the jury is going to be badly maligned. To me
> they seemed smart, attentive and hard working.

I just said it all in the subject line. Whether or not you think Michael was guilty of the molestation charges that he settled out of court a decade ago, that should've given everyone enough warning to avoid letting childen stay alone with Michael, especially for a "sleep-over". So, any parents who let their children stay alone with Michael are either out to get his money, or are just plain stupid. I mean, it's like giving your Twinkie stash to Kirstie Alley for safe keeping, and then suing her when it disappears. Duh!!

<P ID="signature">______________
noiboc.jpg
</P>
 
You can bet if this were Mike Jackson of Westlake, Ohio he'd have been up the creek years ago. Hopefully someone will let MJ know that he has to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.





> > Not so fast.. what about the civil trial? You don't think
> > these grifters are going to let this drop do you?
>
> Yes. They were shown to be so scurvy that I doubt they have
> a chance in court.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
"There ain't no reason to fight over a woman. There's two more down the street!".."Senisble Don", 700 WLW</P>
 
Re: The parents who left their kids alone with Michael are the ones who should go to jail!

> I just said it all in the subject line. Whether or not you
> think Michael was guilty of the molestation charges that he
> settled out of court a decade ago, that should've given
> everyone enough warning to avoid letting childen stay alone
> with Michael, especially for a "sleep-over". So, any
> parents who let their children stay alone with Michael are
> either out to get his money, or are just plain stupid. I
> mean, it's like giving your Twinkie stash to Kirstie Alley
> for safe keeping, and then suing her when it disappears.
> Duh!!

Well the jurors did mentioned that the mother[of the 13-year-old who was the subject of this media circus in the first place] made them annoyed and thought that she was a finger-snapping, mind controling, conniving golddigger who was hoping that they would believe her child's story over Mr.Jackson's, but in the end they didn't buy it.
 
Re: The parents who left their kids alone with Michael are the ones who should go to jail!

<div align="justify"><font color=brown>"I just said it all in the subject line. Whether or not you think Michael was guilty of the molestation charges that he settled out of court a decade ago, that should've given everyone enough warning to avoid letting childen stay alone with Michael, especially for a "sleep-over".
<font color=black>
No argument here. And I'll bet you agree with this too: The culture of celebrity is so strong in this country, he could get parents to allow kids over at "Neverland"tomorrow if he wants to. And he might want to. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if he did just as a big finger in the face of Santa Monica prosecutor Tom Sneddon.

And I <u>do</u> do think that you don't buy off your accuser with millions of dollars if you're innocent. Which is why I think Bill O'Reilley is a scumbag too, although he at least goes for adults. Innocent until proven guilty only holds in a court of law. Here in the court of public opinion, we have much lower standards. ;-)

<font color=brown>"it's like giving your Twinkie stash to Kirstie Alley for safe keeping, and then suing her when it disappears. Duh!!"<font color=black>

Oohh.. that was vicious. True but vicious.<P ID="signature">______________
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague." - Oscar Wilde</P>
 
"Yes. They were shown to be so scurvy that I doubt they have a chance in court."

Yeah, you're probably right. Sneddon had to pick the only people on the planet who could make MJ look like a victim. In a sense, the scumbag was. I think they simply took advantage of what everyone knew: He likes little boys and they took advantage of that fact to set him up. This is a story with no good guys.
<P ID="signature">______________
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague." - Oscar Wilde</P>
 
> A lot of people are upset and see this as OJ II but I don't
> think it is. I am convinced that Michael Jackson has
> molested children. I am NOT convinced that he molested THIS
> child. You can't send someone to prison because, like me,
> you are convinced in your gut he molested kids sometime,
> somewhere.
>
> Unfortunately, the jury is going to be badly maligned. To me
> they seemed smart, attentive and hard working.
>

I find it interesting that some are quick to say they are convinced Michael Jackson has molested children.
I say "FOLLOW THE MONEY"
The first time in the 90's he was accused by a father who wanted Jackson to make a film he had written. When Jackson refused to finance the film he claims his child was molested by Jackson.

Jackson made a big mistake by paying this guy off and not going to court the first time this happened.
I think he was on tour at the time and probably wanted to get on with his life.

Before this happened people used to joke about Jackson possibly being gay..as he is very feminine acting with a high voice. I don't remember people joking about or claiming Jackson was a child molester before this Father did.
Just jokes about him being gay..

If Jackson were very straight acting like say Brad Pitt or Russell Crowe..
I think people would think he was being scammed by the cons in the courtroom?

Since he looks kind of creepy that may give him a quilty look to some.

What convinces you that Jackson has definitly molested children at some time?
 
<div align="justify"><font color=brown>"I find it interesting that some are quick to say they are convinced Michael Jackson has molested children. I say "FOLLOW THE MONEY"<font color=black>

I find it interesting that you would assume that because his accusers were motivated by money that means Michael Jackson is innocent. Why do I believe he's a child molester? His behavior.

Let's look at what's <u>not</u> in dispute: Michael Jackson sleeps with young boys. Never girls, always boys. He does not sleep with his own children. He keeps magazines of nude male children in his house. He paid someone $15.3 million to keep silent about allegations he molested him and refuse to testify against him. It is now illegal in California to pay somone not to testify against you. The law was passed specifically because of MJ. If he'd been living in New York State in 1993, merely paying the kid not to testify would have been a criminal act all by itself. That's it. I don't need any more evidence because the threshhold for convicting him in the court of public opinion is low. There are also no consequences. Had I been on the jury, in all likelihood the result would have been the same. Not guilty because I take the process seriously and would have followed the judges instructions and not my gut instinct about what kinf of guy MJ is.

<font color=brown>"Jackson made a big mistake by paying this guy off and not going to court the first time this happened. I think he was on tour at the time and probably wanted to get on with his life."<font color=black>

He paid someone $15.3 million dollars and you think it was because he was on tour? It takes a YEAR from indictment to start these kinds of trials. He has the best attorneys in the world. He knows that. You say the first accusation was because MJ refused to finance his father's film? How do you know? That's only rumor and gossip. There was no testimony, remember? MJ saw to that. And even if he was motivated by money, that doesn't make MJ innocent. He paid him $15.3 million for a reason, in my opinion. Admissable evidence? No. And it shouldn't be. This is just my opinion, not "proof beyond reasonable doubt."

I heard a member of the defense team being interviewed by Sean Hannity this afternoon. She said Michael Jackson was "proven innocent". Please. How ridiculous. Any high school student who completes one basic logic class knows you can't prove a negative. He wasn't proven innocent. They failed to prove him guilty. Those are not the same things. Hannity said: "You still wouldn't let your kid sleep over at his house would you?" Her reply: (long pause) "I can't believe you said that. And on that note I gotta go."

From where I sit, it seems as if people either believe he's guilty and should have been convicted, or is innocent and got the verdict he deserved. Am I the only one who thinks he's a child molester yet would have probably have acquitted him myself had I been on the jury?

By the way, I also am convinced OJ killed his wife, Robert Blake killed his wife, and Bill O'Reilly and Fox News paid Andrea Mackris' a couple of million dollars because she had some evidence to back up her claims. She may have set him up, I don't know. If it was a trap, he walked right into it and the trap slammed shut. I don't believe he paid her big dough because he's too busy to defend himself against scurrilous, false charges.

<font color=brown>"Before this happened people used to joke about Jackson possibly being gay..as he is very feminine acting with a high voice. I don't remember people joking about or claiming Jackson was a child molester before this Father did. Just jokes about him being gay.. If Jackson were very straight acting like say Brad Pitt or Russell Crowe.. I think people would think he was being scammed by the cons in the courtroom?"<font color=black>

His sexual orientation has nothing to do with it. He likes little boys but had he chosen little girls instead, world opinion would be the same. And again, the fact that his accusers are probably con artists does not mean he is not a child molester. Only that he probably didn't molest this particular kid.

<font color=brown>"Since he looks kind of creepy that may give him a quilty look to some. <font color=black>

Kind of creepy? If creepy looks were a crime, he'd be on death row. I truly feel very sorry for him. He is one screwed up individual. But no, that's not something that gets a prosecutor a conviction. Nor should it. By the way, a forensic artist working from a photograph of MJ as a boy "aged" him just as he would to assist police in finding someone who has been missing for many years. Based on that information, he came up with a drawing of Michael Jackson age 45. Picture here.

At least he doesn't have to worry that all this will hurt his recording career; it was already dead. He'll do just fine in Vegas should he choose to go that route instead of fleeing to Europe as has been rumored.<P ID="signature">______________
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague." - Oscar Wilde</P>
 
> I heard a member of the defense team being interviewed by
> Sean Hannity this afternoon.

Thank you for revealing your bias. I suppose you watch Fox News Channel, too?

<P ID="signature">______________
noiboc.jpg
</P>
 
> > I heard a member of the defense team being interviewed by
> > Sean Hannity this afternoon.
>
> Thank you for revealing your bias. I suppose you watch Fox
> News Channel, too?

I purposely slipped that in there because I knew someone would seize on it. I'm just disappointed it was you. You're smarter and better than that. I'll chalk it up to your youth. If I'd substituted "Al Franken" for Sean Hannity, someone else would have chimed in.

For what it's worth, I watch, listen to and read a lot of things. <P ID="signature">______________
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague." - Oscar Wilde</P>
 
> He does not sleep with his own children.

Because if he did that, people like you would be accusing him of incest.

> He keeps magazines of nude male children in his house.

But yet if you believe his accusers, he tried to ploy his "victims" with copies of Playboy magazine and other female pornography.

<P ID="signature">______________
noiboc.jpg
</P>
 
<div align="justify"><font color=brown>"He does not sleep with his own children. Because if he did that, people like you would be accusing him of incest."<font color=black>

No, if he'd slept with his children, that would have at least been consistent with his habit of sleeping with other people's children. Most of us would think that sleeping with your own same sex children is unusual but not abberational. Sleeping with other peoples kids, and not your own <u>is</u> abberational. It is not against the law however.

<font color=brown>>> He keeps magazines of nude male children in his house.
"But yet if you believe his accusers, he tried to ploy his "victims" with copies of Playboy magazine and other female pornography."<font color=black>

Did you read what I wrote or did you stop as soon as you got to Hannity's name? I <u>don't</u> believe his accusers. That's why I said I would have acquitted him. Why does it bother you so much that I hold an unfavorable personal opinion of him even while saying I don't think he molested his accuser? I also don't know why you seem to try to play down certain facts. "Playboy and other female pornography" is a small part of of the "erotic adult material". Some but not all was accepted into evidence. Playboy can legitimately claim to be erotic material rather than pornography. But, as reporter Harriet Ryan noted: "The images ran the gamut of "commercial adult material from the mainstream, such as Playboy and Hustler to photos of sex acts apparently ripped from books or magazines to specialized publications, including Over 50", "Plumpers" and "Juggs." Detectives also found two DVDs entitled "Barely Legal" "Finally Legal" "Purely 18" and "Live Young Girls". None of this material included young boys. I am merely providing context since your post made it appear that MJ just had a few Playboys and similar adult erotic magazines laying around.

Here's what is more significant: "The panelists previously reviewed books from Jackson's estate that featured nude adults and children." (My emphasis) This was only a small part of the "Neverland" porn collection. Hard Drives taken from 4 computers in Jackson's bedroom contained "16 pages of teen sexual material" and "1,700 pornographic photos". The computer images were not admissable because the defense successfully argued that none of the material was accessed between 2000 and late winter 2003. I agree with that ruling because you can't convict someone for a pattern of behavior.
Only for a specific crime. But it does have an impact on my personal opinion of him, which is all I'm talking about.

If you believe he is not a child molester, why did you write this? :<font color=brown>"Whether or not you think Michael was guilty of the molestation charges that he settled out of court a decade ago, that should've given everyone enough warning to avoid letting childen stay alone with Michael, especially for a "sleep-over". So, any parents who let their children stay alone with Michael are either out to get his money, or are just plain stupid. I mean, it's like giving your Twinkie stash to Kirstie Alley for safe keeping, and then suing her when it disappears. Duh!! "<font color=black><P ID="signature">______________
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague." - Oscar Wilde</P>
 
Innocent vs. Not Guilty

> If you believe he is not a child molester,

Where did I ever say that? I am merely raising the aspect of REASONABLE DOUBT, which is the whole reason why Michael could not be found GUILTY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.

It's the same thing that got OJ off the hook. His defense team did not have to prove he was innocent. All they had to do was to make sure there was enough reasonable doubt to prevent him from being found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

There is a very important difference between "Innocent" and "Not Guilty". Michael, OJ, and Robert Blake are NOT "Innocent"; they're merely "Not Guilty".

And one thing that I find peculiar is that many people are jumping to the conclusion that Michael had sex with children, even though his accusers have never accused him of that (at least to my knowledge). He is accused of "fondling" or "molesting" them, and while that is still a crime, it is not in the same league as having sexual intercourse with a child. (I doubt Michael is even capable of that; he is a very thin and frail man, and I bet any average 12- or 13-year-old boy could whoop his ass if he tried to put the moves on them!)
<P ID="signature">______________
noiboc.jpg
</P>
 
Re: Innocent vs. Not Guilty

> If you believe he is not a child molester,

Where did I ever say that?

You didn't, I inferred it. In my very first post, I complimented the jury for coming up with the correct verdict, but opined I still think he has molested children in his past. You replied that I had revealed my "bias" because I sometimes listen to programming you evidently disapprove of. Then you said "people like you" (what kind of person is that?) "will accuse him of molesting his children". Now call me crazy, but if I take a position and you call me "biased", and then take issue with my saying I believe he has molested children, doesn't that connote disagreement?

But now it appears (unless I still haven't figured you out) we are in complete agreement despite my "bias". I don't want to alarm you, but Rush Limbaugh expressed exactly the same opinion. Also, before the trial even started, Geraldo Rivera of the (gasp) Fox News Channel said: "It is obvious that these accusers are grifters. When you see this case, you will see it is so bad, you'll wonder why Sneddon even brought this case forward." He gets bragging rights. He called it exactly.

"And one thing that I find peculiar is that many people are jumping to the conclusion that Michael had sex with children".

Somebody somewhere can be found to hold any position imaginable. I not only didn't conclude that, I never even <u>heard</u> it.<P ID="signature">______________
Jerry

My passion for talk radio extends from Limbaugh to Komando to Franken. Please don't bore me with your political opinions or make commentary on what you imagine mine to be. No one cares.
</P>
 
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