Nor-Cal AM DX notes

[cyberdad]

I'm on the last leg of a 11-day Florida-California business trip. Nothing to report for the first eight nights....steel/concrete high rise hotels in Orlando, Orange County, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. At best, all I could get were locals with nearby sticks. Last three nights, however, I'm in Napa Valley in a wood/brick building hotel room, which not only lets signals in, but also is relatively free of noise sources.

For those unfamiliar with Napa Valley, my current location is about 55 miles northeast of San Francisco.

I haven't had a lot of time for DXing, but a few observations (using the SRF-37 Walkman)....

First the locals....Most of the big SF's do reasonably well up here. Day and night. This group includes 560, 610 (degraded signal from "back in the KFRC days), 680 (the strongest), 740, 810 (second strongest), 860 (relative newcomer), 910, 960, 1010 (audible nighttime crud underneath these last three), 1100, 1050 (also strong 24/7), 1100, 1260,1310 and 1550. Local Napa on 1440 has a nice signal and good audio.

Sacramento stations....about 50-60 miles east of here...don't do well. 650 is the best daytime signal, but still not all that great. 1530 is best at night, but still not very good.

Strongest nighttime out of town signal is easily KNX. The other L.A. blowtorch, KFI isn't all that impressive....new stick notwithstanding. Other strong night signals here were on 780 (KKOH), 1090 (Tijuana), 1120 (Oregon), and 1180 (Montana).

The other So-Cal signals are either weak or absent. "Best of the Rest" would include 690 (Tijuana), 760 (San Diego) 950 (Tijuana). I usually can get 570 and/or 1110 here in the slop, but not this time.

Being from the Midwest, I decided to see what I could find from "back in the hood". None of the Chicago stations have been present so far. KMOX, which used to be do-able on the west coast wasn't apparent under KPNW. I did get a weak signal from WHO, which is par for the course in these parts. The surprise was WCCO on 830. Usually absent IME, but there it was last night (Friday). Not exactly strong, but good enough to be on top of the channel. I've probably heard it out here before, but I don't recall specifically.

 

[MR5229]

The Sacramento stations don't come in well in the SF Bay Area because the groundwave/skywave cancellation zone is within a big swatch of the bay. Areas east, such as Concord, Walnut Creek, and Pleasanton have better luck with the Sacramento stations.

It's interesting that you were able to get 830 WCCO in the Bay Area. I've tried before and I usually get 830 KLAA from Los Angeles, with another station trying to fight it out on 830. The furthest station I've received in the Bay Area is CFAC 960 from Calgary. 850 KOA is still receivable, even with the local 860 KTRB on air. KKOB 770 is still receivable, depending on location in the Bay Area. KWTO from Casper, WY is receivable as well, depending on location. I do remember reading in another board on radio-info that 780 WBBM is still receivable from someone that lives 30 miles east of Reno, NV. If KKOH wasn't on air, I would think that WBBM could still make it to the Bay Area.

 

[BRNout]

Interesting, I was in the Bay Area last spring (San Jose) and had some similar - yet different reception experiences. KOA was VERY weak, but I did get it. Tried for 890 and it was a mix of KDXU St. George and a bit of KLFF Arroyo Grande (at least I think it was).

Here's what's odd: in my last couple of visits to the Bay Area, I got KNCO Grass Valley on 830. And, a pretty good signal from them too. KSTE 650 was the strongest Sacto market signal and it came in pretty well day and night. Surprised to hear that it wasn't that impressive in Napa until I looked at their night pattern. It's a bit like a modified "8" with a null right at Napa. In fact, it maps out as stronger in the South Bay than in the much closer Napa Valley. Interesting.

Of course, KSL was in each night as were KKOB, KKOH and KBOI. Were it not for the San Jose local on 1500, I bet that KSTP could make it to the West Coast without difficulty. It's signal is impressive in UT and eastern NV.

I read the anecdotal comment about 780 with some interest. Despite my best efforts, I haven't been able to get WBBM anywhere west of the Wasatch Range. KKOH's null isn't as pronounced as shown on maps and they still seem to dominate the zone from Salt Lake City westward. I have also heard local drop-in KCEG Fountain, CO in the Mountain West on 780. It's weak, but still a pest.

As far as Chicago former clears go, again the Wasatch Range seems to be a natural dividing line now for 780, 720, which to the west is KDWN; 670, which to the west is KBOI. In the case of 890, KDXU was dominant as far east as western WY; 1000 is KOMO as far E as the Missouri River in the Dakotas.

 

[radioman148]

WLS could be heard very well into Southern California even into the early 90s. KDXU used to signoff late and I could hear WLS well on a car radio driving around the California deserts. By the early 80s KKOH hurt WBBM and then WMAQ & WGN were out of the picture due to KBOI and KDWN respectively.
Back in the 60s & early 70s all four Chicago clears were easily heard up & down the west coast.
Never heard WCFL/WMVP due to their deep westward null & the strength of KOMO.

 

[gar hi]

Have any of you been able to get WWL out there recently?

I was last in the Bay Area about 4 years ago and didn't have the time to do much DXing.

I remember hearing KNX at night without even the intent of DXing and it sounded like a local.

 

[BRNout]

Have any of you been able to get WWL out there recently?

I was last in the Bay Area about 4 years ago and didn't have the time to do much DXing.

I remember hearing KNX at night without even the intent of DXing and it sounded like a local.

Nope. When I tried for it, I got what is now known as KRLA (Glendale, CA) on 870. Much like Chicago signals, WWL probably was an easy catch at one time but is no longer.

WLS could be heard very well into Southern California even into the early 90s. KDXU used to signoff late and I could hear WLS well on a car radio driving around the California deserts. By the early 80s KKOH hurt WBBM and then WMAQ & WGN were out of the picture due to KBOI and KDWN respectively.
Back in the 60s & early 70s all four Chicago clears were easily heard up & down the west coast.
Never heard WCFL/WMVP due to their deep westward null & the strength of KOMO.

Interesting to hear this history of how WLS made it to the west coast so well at one time. It's VERY difficult to imagine that now. Even in W. Wyoming, where I had WGN booming in nightly, a weak and anemic WLS barely trickled in whether St. George was in or not. Out there, WGN and WBBM were the two best - WSCR was less so. Once I got into Salt Lake City and points west, none of them were on. I suppose, with time and patience, you might be able to get them by nulling out the dominant signal - as Chicagoans do with WYLL to get KSL.

But, WLS has simply been too weak to even make it. The more I hear these stories from veteran dxers, the more I am sure that something has happened at WLS' transmitter site to weaken their skywave signal (which Citadel probably doesn't care much about).

 

[KR4BD]

WLS was a night-time "regular" in Riverside, CA (50 mi East of Los Angeles) during my early teen years from 1961-1964. Listened to it almost every night. It was totally "in the clear" owning the frequency. WWL-870 was also quite strong during that time. Since those great days of AM DXing, the FCC has decided to clutter up the entire band with what has turned out to be mostly nothing but a bunch of "robot" automated stations. From my present location, I can hear WLS in Lexington, KY on my ham rig and longwire antennas all day long. Chicago's 670 and 720 are also present during the day, but weaker than WLS here. At night, all the Chicago 50 kw'ers are all about the same strength.

 

[radioman148]

Have any of you been able to get WWL out there recently?

I was last in the Bay Area about 4 years ago and didn't have the time to do much DXing.

I remember hearing KNX at night without even the intent of DXing and it sounded like a local.

Nope. When I tried for it, I got what is now known as KRLA (Glendale, CA) on 870. Much like Chicago signals, WWL probably was an easy catch at one time but is no longer.

WLS could be heard very well into Southern California even into the early 90s. KDXU used to signoff late and I could hear WLS well on a car radio driving around the California deserts. By the early 80s KKOH hurt WBBM and then WMAQ & WGN were out of the picture due to KBOI and KDWN respectively.
Back in the 60s & early 70s all four Chicago clears were easily heard up & down the west coast.
Never heard WCFL/WMVP due to their deep westward null & the strength of KOMO.

Interesting to hear this history of how WLS made it to the west coast so well at one time. It's VERY difficult to imagine that now. Even in W. Wyoming, where I had WGN booming in nightly, a weak and anemic WLS barely trickled in whether St. George was in or not. Out there, WGN and WBBM were the two best - WSCR was less so. Once I got into Salt Lake City and points west, none of them were on. I suppose, with time and patience, you might be able to get them by nulling out the dominant signal - as Chicagoans do with WYLL to get KSL.

But, WLS has simply been too weak to even make it. The more I hear these stories from veteran dxers, the more I am sure that something has happened at WLS' transmitter site to weaken their skywave signal (which Citadel probably doesn't care much about).

WLS had by far the best nighttime signal of any of the Chicago clears in the 60s thru 80s.
I picked it up at one time or another in every corner of the US & Mexico and it was always the strongest of the Chicago stations. I used to go to New Orleans often in the 60s & 70s as I had relatives there and WLS was as good as a local there at night. In fact the teenagers (my cousins among them) had a car radio button set on it.
In 1978 I heard WLS, WBBM and WWL in Hawaii and as I previously mentioned WLS was an easy everynight catch in California.

 

[gar hi]

WLS was a night-time "regular" in Riverside, CA (50 mi East of Los Angeles) during my early teen years from 1961-1964. Listened to it almost every night. It was totally "in the clear" owning the frequency. WWL-870 was also quite strong during that time. Since those great days of AM DXing, the FCC has decided to clutter up the entire band with what has turned out to be mostly nothing but a bunch of "robot" automated stations. From my present location, I can hear WLS in Lexington, KY on my ham rig and longwire antennas all day long. Chicago's 670 and 720 are also present during the day, but weaker than WLS here. At night, all the Chicago 50 kw'ers are all about the same strength.

Wow, that's a great catch to hear Chicago from where you are in the day.

I take it that you can't get anything at all on an ordinary radio?

That's one reason I want to get a loop antenna because I saw a demonstration on YouTube where someone placed a small portable radio down tuned to a frequency with nothing on it. When he passed the loop around the radio, a station came in with a good signal.

 

[BRNout]

WLS had by far the best nighttime signal of any of the Chicago clears in the 60s thru 80s.
I picked it up at one time or another in every corner of the US & Mexico and it was always the strongest of the Chicago stations. I used to go to New Orleans often in the 60s & 70s as I had relatives there and WLS was as good as a local there at night. In fact the teenagers (my cousins among them) had a car radio button set on it.
In 1978 I heard WLS, WBBM and WWL in Hawaii and as I previously mentioned WLS was an easy everynight catch in California.

I remember my dad tuning the car radio at night back when I was little (late 60's, early 70's) to WABC and WLS. It was amazing to me how we could listen to such a clear signal at night in VA which came all the way from Chicago. And, I did listen to it now and then as a kid on my own crummy little radio. But you can still get WLS in VA reasonably well - not so good any more into New England. That's all a function of the loss of the clear channel though.

Where I am impressed is in areas with no 'local' cluttering up the dial. In those areas, WLS is usually (not always, but usually) outclassed by WGN, WBBM and even WSCR (though not by as much).

 

[gar hi]

The only time WLS has a fairly decent signal for a long distance station here is right around sunset for a very short time.

Once it's dark, forget it.

Same with stations like KYW and WBZ anymore which both used to get in OK during the night "back in the day".

What always used to impress me was when I used to drive up and down I-95 betewwn Florida and New Jersey and I'd stop somewhere in North Carolina along I-95. The New York 50kw stations had much better and louder signals at night than they did in South Jersey at night.

Being at about 80 miles, it's right in the middle of all that skywave/groundwave mix.

 

[cyberdad]

Last night, KNCO completely owned the 830 channel in Napa Valley. 'CCO may have been underneath, but I couldn't ID it. Don't know what the deal was Friday night/early Saturday, but I never so much as heard an ID from them....although they may well have been in the mix.

As for the big four 50KW Chicago sticks. Indeed they used to be fairly regular just about anywhere in California. Same goes for WWL. I've snagged all of them several times.

Here's what I heard on those five frequencies this (just-concluded) trip...

670: Not much. A weak KBOI was about it. A little splatter from KNBR, which was easily nulled.
720: KDWN: Fair
780: KKOH; A real monster. Agree WBBM might otherwise be best bet for hearing Chicago, but wouldn't stand much of a chance against KKOH in NorCal.
870: More or less a mess. Nothing dominating. For all I know WWL could've been part of it.
890: KDXU primarily. Not exactly robust.

Finally, also stronger last night than previous....KIRO, KOA.

 

[radioman148]

WLS had by far the best nighttime signal of any of the Chicago clears in the 60s thru 80s.
I picked it up at one time or another in every corner of the US & Mexico and it was always the strongest of the Chicago stations. I used to go to New Orleans often in the 60s & 70s as I had relatives there and WLS was as good as a local there at night. In fact the teenagers (my cousins among them) had a car radio button set on it.
In 1978 I heard WLS, WBBM and WWL in Hawaii and as I previously mentioned WLS was an easy everynight catch in California.

I remember my dad tuning the car radio at night back when I was little (late 60's, early 70's) to WABC and WLS. It was amazing to me how we could listen to such a clear signal at night in VA which came all the way from Chicago. And, I did listen to it now and then as a kid on my own crummy little radio. But you can still get WLS in VA reasonably well - not so good any more into New England. That's all a function of the loss of the clear channel though.

Where I am impressed is in areas with no 'local' cluttering up the dial. In those areas, WLS is usually (not always, but usually) outclassed by WGN, WBBM and even WSCR (though not by as much).

In the Chicago area in the 60s I used to listen to WABC at night alot. No chance hearing it now because of WBBM's I-Block. I can still hear WCBS well because WLS doesn't run the jet engine.

 

[radioman148]

The only time WLS has a fairly decent signal for a long distance station here is right around sunset for a very short time.

Once it's dark, forget it.

Same with stations like KYW and WBZ anymore which both used to get in OK during the night "back in the day".

What always used to impress me was when I used to drive up and down I-95 betewwn Florida and New Jersey and I'd stop somewhere in North Carolina along I-95. The New York 50kw stations had much better and louder signals at night than they did in South Jersey at night.

Being at about 80 miles, it's right in the middle of all that skywave/groundwave mix.

My guess is that WLS gets hammered in your area after sunset because of all the Cuban/Carribbean interference.

 

[cyberdad]

My guess is that WLS gets hammered in your area after sunset because of all the Cuban/Carribbean interference.

From past experience in the neighborhood, I can say 10-4 and roger to that! Although around Pensacola (next stop on my "world tour"), 'LS still rides in on top of the channel from time to time.