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Need new FM station engineering ideas/suggestions
- Thread starter AKDXer
- Start date
Revisiting this a few years later:
-Yes, power is a huge killer. The local public radio station's translator relay runs off the battery/inverter bank for the community building, is on a high rock outcropping/cliff/knoll, and thus electricity is available, at low cost at that as usually the community building gets power from the school generator as the city owns both buildings and that's part of the lease deal for the school district. Even that has its weak point, though, as if someone leaves the lights on at night by accident in the community building it kills the batteries, etc.
-I'm pretty sure the power issue, along with a spot for a tower, is why we still don't have cell phone coverage there either. A few possible places exist I'd put a cell tower, any other transmitter would be logical there too. Was hoping high HAAT for obvious reasons, which would apply to both, but again once you start going up in elevation around there, power becomes harder to come by.
-LPFM would totally be an option, and, as others have said, if non-directional with any kind of elevation or line of sight whatsoever, could get out pretty well. Another public radio relay translator, at 140w ERP, gets out sporadically all over central Southeast Alaska, but sporadic- hoping higher ERP would equal much better penetration. 140w isn't enough to trip that seek all over central SE, though. For those who may look at a map, I lived in/thought about COL'ing Port Alexander- K216AA is COL'ed to Pt. Baker. Up the northern part of Sumner Strait it does well, all the way north up to places as far as Thomas Bay/Muddy River and west as far as Port Alexander, Port Armstrong, Little Port Walter, and Baranof Warm springs are reached sporadically-Kuiu Island seems to be the major killer.
In my total in my head, beer-math engineering, I'd think 100kw at any decent height would cover a lot, especially as strategic a point as a place like Port Alexander is. Definitely all of lower Chatam Strait, likely pretty Far East in terms of Craig, Klawock/western Prince of Wales Island, Point Baker, Port Protection, Petersburg/Kuperanof/Muddy River/Thomas Bay, north to Tyee, Angoon, even maybe a spotty signal into Juneau. (Wouldn't that be amazing? Hit some population base). Being so close to the outside coast, it might even reach down as far as Ketchikan, etc. Sitka might be harder given the mountainous terrain of northern Baranof Island.
The idea, on paper, would be that it'd actually cover something like (my estimate) 80,000 people. What might that do to advertising revenue? It's spread out as can be, but when I lived in Fairbanks the commercial stations had ads for places in Delta Junction and Nenana. Delta Junction is probably almost a two hour drive away- the stations had a wide area of coverage with the terrain there and they and their advertisers knew it. One station in particular had an ID sweeper with a line of "From Delta to Cantwell...".
-Obviously, power, diesel fuel, site maintenance and possible Forest Service land leases would be the biggest killers there are. One possible spot might be the community water tank, already at quite some elevation (probably 500-600 feet?). An LPFM might be a good start?
-Yes, power is a huge killer. The local public radio station's translator relay runs off the battery/inverter bank for the community building, is on a high rock outcropping/cliff/knoll, and thus electricity is available, at low cost at that as usually the community building gets power from the school generator as the city owns both buildings and that's part of the lease deal for the school district. Even that has its weak point, though, as if someone leaves the lights on at night by accident in the community building it kills the batteries, etc.
-I'm pretty sure the power issue, along with a spot for a tower, is why we still don't have cell phone coverage there either. A few possible places exist I'd put a cell tower, any other transmitter would be logical there too. Was hoping high HAAT for obvious reasons, which would apply to both, but again once you start going up in elevation around there, power becomes harder to come by.
-LPFM would totally be an option, and, as others have said, if non-directional with any kind of elevation or line of sight whatsoever, could get out pretty well. Another public radio relay translator, at 140w ERP, gets out sporadically all over central Southeast Alaska, but sporadic- hoping higher ERP would equal much better penetration. 140w isn't enough to trip that seek all over central SE, though. For those who may look at a map, I lived in/thought about COL'ing Port Alexander- K216AA is COL'ed to Pt. Baker. Up the northern part of Sumner Strait it does well, all the way north up to places as far as Thomas Bay/Muddy River and west as far as Port Alexander, Port Armstrong, Little Port Walter, and Baranof Warm springs are reached sporadically-Kuiu Island seems to be the major killer.
In my total in my head, beer-math engineering, I'd think 100kw at any decent height would cover a lot, especially as strategic a point as a place like Port Alexander is. Definitely all of lower Chatam Strait, likely pretty Far East in terms of Craig, Klawock/western Prince of Wales Island, Point Baker, Port Protection, Petersburg/Kuperanof/Muddy River/Thomas Bay, north to Tyee, Angoon, even maybe a spotty signal into Juneau. (Wouldn't that be amazing? Hit some population base). Being so close to the outside coast, it might even reach down as far as Ketchikan, etc. Sitka might be harder given the mountainous terrain of northern Baranof Island.
The idea, on paper, would be that it'd actually cover something like (my estimate) 80,000 people. What might that do to advertising revenue? It's spread out as can be, but when I lived in Fairbanks the commercial stations had ads for places in Delta Junction and Nenana. Delta Junction is probably almost a two hour drive away- the stations had a wide area of coverage with the terrain there and they and their advertisers knew it. One station in particular had an ID sweeper with a line of "From Delta to Cantwell...".
-Obviously, power, diesel fuel, site maintenance and possible Forest Service land leases would be the biggest killers there are. One possible spot might be the community water tank, already at quite some elevation (probably 500-600 feet?). An LPFM might be a good start?
Juneau is 145 air miles from Port Alexander, so I think this is a pipe dream. For those of us in the lower 48, that's like Kansas City to Abliene, or Green Bay, Wis. to Traverse City, Mich.
The full class C facility (highest power and tallest tower permitted) gives you about 60 miles radius to the "city grade" contours (60 dBu), assuming flat terrain. You might reach Juneau on a good day, but it would be unlikely to be the kind of service that would get you much attention from the Juneau business community. Plus, Juneau already has a healthy supply of radio stations, making it that much harder to get noticed.
I ran a 60 mile radius centered on Port Alexander through US Census data and found a population of 3011. Within a 100 mile radius, I got 17807 population - again assuming flat terrain.
Either way, having your audience, and advertisers so dispersed makes it hard to get sales, because the effort to meet with your customers and pitch them is so much higher than it would be in Oklahoma or Kentucky. I assume booking a ferries or seaplanes isn't as easy as hopping in the car and driving 45 minutes down a rural highway to an appointment. Doesn't make it impossible.
I'd definitely try the low-power route before trying to create a monster signal all over southeast Alaska, particularly if there is unreliable or expensive utility power. It's at least plausible to run an LPFM (or class D FM, as Bill mentioned) via a solar setup in the summer, so lack of utility power wouldn't shut you down.
I do radio sales. I have not sold in Alaska. To make a sale, you have spend the time to visit the potential customer to earn their trust, understand their business and get to the point where you can proposal an ad schedule that accomplishes their goals for the dollar amount they are comfortable spending. If you have clients 2 hours away, that is a huge investment in travel time and cost. Since commission on collections in smaller markets is typically 20%, it is likely the salesperson will spend much more than they receive to see distant accounts. From time to time, a client might advertise for a sale or special event but unless it's a big company that is a leader in the region in supplying a certain product, I suspect most of those distant clients are not buying every day.
You need to look at the business community and determine what might be possible for a radio station. You have to have a way to pay the bills. Don't think listeners will just send you cash. From what I've seen about 1 in 15 will send a donation to a public station. And once you get a station on you'll find you have to give the public what they want or all bets are off. So, expect to be devoted to the station, likely as a volunteer.
You need to look at the business community and determine what might be possible for a radio station. You have to have a way to pay the bills. Don't think listeners will just send you cash. From what I've seen about 1 in 15 will send a donation to a public station. And once you get a station on you'll find you have to give the public what they want or all bets are off. So, expect to be devoted to the station, likely as a volunteer.
This. Alaska is dotted with FM translators all carrying public radio.
It's already been proven that single small communities with large spans of miles between aren't able to support small radio stations within the community. Years ago, some tried going with 50kW AM stations to cover enough population across a large geographic area, trying to be viable. That didn't work either. Many of those stations folded up shop due to operating costs and lack of consistent revenue.
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