National EAS test was a flop

[MarkW]

Where problems were found, they will work locally to fix them so that they do not recur.

I hope you are right, David, but I'm highly skeptical that most of the problems will actually be fixed.

 

[Kelly A]

This is my last post. Good Bye!

See ya.

 

[Kelly A]

For a start, you admitted it this morning. Second, it's obvious from the tests through the years.

As some have stated even here; the recent National Test was successful. To claim the EAS system "sucks" because there was a problem in your area, or areas your friends or family are in, are not indicative of other markets and locations where the test worked. Again, I ask you yet again; how does one work out the bugs with any system if you don't test it once and a while? All I've seen with detractors are the same old assumption that it should just work from their personal perspective.

Trust me, I do. I really don't appreciate you and Kelly presuming anyone who considers the operation of the system poor just don't understand how it's supposed to work.

Okay, how does a National Test get relayed? Better yet, how did it get relayed on this particular test?

Yes, I am very aware of my state's EAS plan, and all of its revisions since the early 2000s.

A State EAS plan is just that, a state plan. National alerts and tests run through the state, but are originating from a different source, and potentially a different path. This National Test was different than others, mainly because he government wanted to test a different scenario than what typically would happen for a national test.

I have been responsible for EAS logging at a very small-time station. I am not currently and have not been for a long time. Almost all of the EAS failures were because one station in the chain between the state primary station and my station didn't know what they were doing.

But again, that's not a National Test. What you're describing is a weekly or monthly test.

There were enough problems like this that the state EAS plan was amended such that any local primary station could originate its own RMTs. Here's a snip from the state EAS plan:

But that's why theses stations are designated at PEP stations. Here in the Washington D.C. area, that's WTOP-FM. You don't think the local news station should be able to originate an alert?

It was a test that was relayed, ergo it was a test for everyone.
I agree that EAS, and particularly weather radios that alarm on SAME codes, are a good thing. For the purpose of relaying weather warnings, my stations have always monitored NOAA Weather Radio. It's much more reliable than the relay system through commercial networks.

There's nothing wrong with monitoring NWS, but that's only one of (for some areas) five different ways of receiving emergency or life-safety messages. Some states like Washington, actually have their own dedicated 450Mhz relay system, along with NWS, IPAWS/FEMA, local PEP stations, and backup local radio or TV stations. NWS handles weather emergency information for EAS, but that information isn't duplicated on IPAWS, or your backup PEP station.

 

[Harvey_Dogg]

Well a schoolyard bully tried to run me off. I was a handicapped kid who went to public schools. So, I learned how to stand up to a bully long ago.

1. There's a rule in engineering that comes in here. It's called KISS or Keep it simple stupid. And, we don't need a course in EAS 101. We just need the EAS to work properly. It's supposed to be able to put the President on the air.

2. Kelly's friend Xmitterland said one of two FEMA feeds sent no audio in the National EAS test. That's the answer and why there was silence all over the dial in a wide area of Indiana and likely other places as well.

3, PTBoardOp94 also brought up crappy monthly tests. This is also simple. A station in the chain has failed to properly tune in a station they are supposed to be monitoring. The EAS problems are not from poorly designed equipment. They are caused by human error and sloppy work.

4. Kelly didn't address any of the two issues in 2 or 3 above.

5. In college, I had a station in my dorm room called it WKMA. Then later I helped a major university get a licensed FM station. The FCC assigned them the call letters WFUC. Remembering those call letters right now. And, I don't have to answer dumb questions that are irrelevant to the failed EAS test.

 

[DavidEduardo]

1. There's a rule in engineering that comes in here. It's called KISS or Keep it simple stupid. And, we don't need a course in EAS 101. We just need the EAS to work properly. It's supposed to be able to put the President on the air.

No, that was the purpose of CONELRAD and that was developed over 60 years ago. That was the era when a real alert would have meant: "bend over and kiss your ass goodbye".

As EBS and EAS developed, it was expanded to include regional, state and even local alerts. There was a hierarchy of who could originate a broadcast, and it had its own defects as shown by the local authorities being unable to activate in the famous Minot derailment and chemical spill.

2. Kelly's friend Xmitterland said one of two FEMA feeds sent no audio in the National EAS test. That's the answer and why there was silence all over the dial in a wide area of Indiana and likely other places as well.

And now they know specifically what needs to be repaired. That, in itself, is a major successful finding of the test.

Remember, you take a "test" drive of a car before you buy it. You get a COVID test to see if there is anything wrong.

3, PTBoardOp94 also brought up crappy monthly tests. This is also simple. A station in the chain has failed to properly tune in a station they are supposed to be monitoring. The EAS problems are not from poorly designed equipment. They are caused by human error and sloppy work.

It's usually not wrong tuning. It can be anything from the overnight operator bumping some cables to a poorly thought out change in input assignments on a digital board. It can even be a failure of the box itself. The reason we do weekly and monthly tests is to make sure we correct an issue before the system is really needed.

4. Kelly didn't address any of the two issues in 2 or 3 above.

Because those issues are found in the weekly tests and should have been corrected. This national test was a system test, not a station test.

5. In college, I had a station in my dorm room called it WKMA. Then later I helped a major university get a licensed FM station. The FCC assigned them the call letters WFUC. Remembering those call letters right now. And, I don't have to answer dumb questions that are irrelevant to the failed EAS test.

Hundreds of thousands of Americans have worked in broadcasting in some way. That's not the issue.

 

[Kelly A]

Well a schoolyard bully tried to run me off. I was a handicapped kid who went to public schools. So, I learned how to stand up to a bully long ago.

Nobody tried to "run you off". You were the one who claimed it was your last post. Obviously, not a man of your word.

1. There's a rule in engineering that comes in here. It's called KISS or Keep it simple stupid. And, we don't need a course in EAS 101.

Based on your lack of contribution as to what the issues actually are, you obviously never took the course. All you can say is; it doesn't work. I'll bet you're really effective when trying to repair a piece of equipment like a transmitter: "Stupid worthless box!" "It stopped working, therefore it must be a failed design."

We just need the EAS to work properly. It's supposed to be able to put the President on the air.

Not sure if you've seen newscasts, radio or TV lately. The President has been on the air pretty much everyday. None of it was via EAS.

2. Kelly's friend Xmitterland said one of two FEMA feeds sent no audio in the National EAS test. That's the answer and why there was silence all over the dial in a wide area of Indiana and likely other places as well.

But several areas had good results, including audio. What do you attribute the successes to? Blind luck? And again; how do you solve the problem without testing it after making changes? Cross your fingers?

3, PTBoardOp94 also brought up crappy monthly tests. This is also simple. A station in the chain has failed to properly tune in a station they are supposed to be monitoring. The EAS problems are not from poorly designed equipment. They are caused by human error and sloppy work.

Really?? So you have first hand knowledge what the problems are with monthly tests? Not that an SAGE box was inadvertantly programmed to ignore a National Test via the local PEP station, but the IPAWS instead? I'll bet you've made plenty of mistakes over the years, and had to test the results of mitigating the mistake before you called it fixed. Apparently no EAS system in the U.S. gets a pass from you.

4. Kelly didn't address any of the two issues in 2 or 3 above.

Yes I did.

5. In college, I had a station in my dorm room called it WKMA. Then later I helped a major university get a licensed FM station. The FCC assigned them the call letters WFUC. Remembering those call letters right now. And, I don't have to answer dumb questions that are irrelevant to the failed EAS test.

You mean like: How do you know a problem is fixed, or even identify a problem without testing? Yep, you seem to be sidestepping that question at every turn.

 

[kwthom]

You mean like: How do you know a problem is fixed, or even identify a problem without testing? Yep, you seem to be sidestepping that question at every turn.

In my prior life, I worked in production test engineering. Our equipment was designed to test an item. We knew the engineering on the device under test (DUT) was solid - our customer was buying them for $1m each.

Pretty obvious, then, that our DUT was quite an elaborate piece of gear. Over time, it became pretty obvious to look at any given set of test results and know which part/parts of the system were not properly functioning.

Sure seems to me that the complexities of this specific system are fully understood by the architects (a.k.a. designers...), but may not be by those assigned with implementation (a.k.a. the grunts down the food chain) of the system.

Did the system fully pass? No.

Has it ever fully passed? That's possibly a no as well.

Is there enough redundancy in the system for the message to get out to the majority of the listening public? Probably, considering all of the other mechanisms out there.

 

[Harvey_Dogg]

Kelly, One of your friends posted "Yes one of the satellite channels that radio stations are allowed to monitor for national EAS messages failed the test and did not actually broadcast the voice message."

Checkmate! Game over.

If you don't like the message, attack the messenger. Like blame the newsman for the news.

So, you are free to now have the last word. Take some more pot shots. And speaking of weed, it's now legal in Washington. Maybe someone in D.C. was too high to insert the audio in the test and thus the cause of the statewide dead air and failed test.

See ya!

 

[Kelly A]

Sure seems to me that the complexities of this specific system are fully understood by the architects (a.k.a. designers...), but may not be by those assigned with implementation (a.k.a. the grunts down the food chain) of the system.

The complexities of the EAS network aren't just technical. Owners of each chain link include radio and TV stations all over the country, municipalities, state and local government. Some broadcasters take EAS more seriously, with multiple ways of receiving tests and alerts, while others do only the bare basics to comply with the rules. Weakest links break first during testing. As in your example; the key is identifying where the weak links in all the markets are, encourage the links to get strengthened, then test again.

Did the system fully pass? No.

Depends what you consider fully pass. Saw in interview with Elon Musk the other day about his Starship project out of Texas. They're looking to launch the largest man made rocket into earth orbit, then land in the Pacific near Hawaii before the end of 2021. Elon said if they can get past 'stage 0', they'll consider it a partial win. Stage 0 being the rocket doesn't explode on the pad and take out years of built-up infrastructure. If it doesn't blow up on the pad, but makes it out to sea before exploding, he will consider that a win. If it makes it to orbit, but burns up in the atmosphere, that's still a win, because they got much further than Stage 0. That to me is an extreme form of testing, but still required. Musk can't assume that computer models will reveal the hundreds of thousands things that have to go right in launching the worlds largest rocket into space, then return it without incident.

Is there enough redundancy in the system for the message to get out to the majority of the listening public? Probably, considering all of the other mechanisms out there.

As David mentioned; much has changed in the world since EBS or certainly EAS was implemented. The majority of consumers now rely on smartphones for most things media. EAS seems to work pretty well for alerting via phones. Just last week, I received several EAS messages while a severe storm rolled through the area. Radio is no longer the only place EAS has to work for reaching the masses. That doesn't mean I think radio in particular should get a pass around EAS, but given the numbers of radio stations and their varying commitments to EAS reception, it's an ongoing process to identify problem spots, fix them, then test again. A lot of moving parts.

 

[Kelly A]

Kelly, One of your friends posted "Yes one of the satellite channels that radio stations are allowed to monitor for national EAS messages failed the test and did not actually broadcast the voice message."

But that's why we test. It isn't a contest involving elimination. Its a system intended for alerting the general public.

Checkmate! Game over.

I guess you must be playing (a game) with yourself. First we went from EAS 101, to references to winning at chess. You're really all over the map trying to make point that is ultimately a poor attempt at distraction from the topic being discussed. You are unable to answer a simple question, so credibility is zero.

If you don't like the message, attack the messenger. Like blame the newsman for the news.

Now we're talking about news? My advise: Don't drink and post.

So, you are free to now have the last word. Take some more pot shots. And speaking of weed, it's now legal in Washington.

Sorry my bad: Shouldn't smoke weed and post.

See ya!

Don't tease us.

 

[kwthom]

Radio is no longer the only place EAS has to work for reaching the masses.

Agreed. We've expanded the use of EAS over nearly 25 years with other mass media technologies, in the hopes that the percentage of the population reached is increased. In theory, it should be.

That doesn't mean I think radio in particular should get a pass around EAS, but given the numbers of radio stations and their varying commitments to EAS reception, it's an ongoing process to identify problem spots, fix them, then test again. A lot of moving parts.

Unlike many households, I don't necessary keep any type of radio/TV device on just for background noise *constantly* as many others might.

That being said, I do know that both my wife and I did receive the test message via our cell phones - roughly 30 seconds apart.

Thus, discussion is on "radio stations and their varying commitments to EAS reception". Root causes and corrective actions will be identified and implemented, and the process (in theory) should repeat until a satisfactory level of effort from radio (and TV) is reached.

Then it has to be maintained - probably the harder challenge for operators in the industry.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[Kelly A]

Given my line of work, I have nineteen TV's on the walls in front of me. Those monitors have a variety of all the big four networks and major cable TV news networks, plus news remote feeds from around the world. Even then, some of those monitors are multi-viewers with 16 separate screens inside the screen. For good or bad, I generally get to see the news events unfolding before it hits the air anywhere. While at home, I can control the router feeds at work to stream any of the A/V feeds to my laptop. When we're on vacation, my wife usually rolls her eyes when I crack open the laptop after my cell phone rings.