Fox stations apologising for NFL territorial policy?

[Ultimajock]

...this afternoon, WLAX/25 in La Crosse and WEUX/48 in Chippewa Falls have been running a crawl across the screen apologising to its viewers for not being able to carry the Vikings-Lions game. Interesting, since the Packers are the historically dominant team in fan attention throughout most of Wisconsin (the exceptions being the counties along the border with Illinois, which has progressively become Bears territory over the last dozen years or so, and the St. Croix Valley, which is part of the Minneapolis-St. Paul ADI, thus Vikings territory). Significantly, the Fox station in Rochester (two counties west of La Crosse), KXLT/47, is co-owned with the NBC affiliate there, KTTC/10 (and KTTC's La Crosse translator, W67CH/67), and the ABC affiliates in La Crosse, WXOW/19, and Eau Claire, WQOW/18. (As well as the area CW 100+ cable channels in Rochester, La Crosse and Eau Claire, for that matter.) Thus, I suspect KXLT could exert a bit more power with Fox than WLAX/WEUX can. But WLAX/WEUX are claiming *NFL* restrictions, not Fox. Any similar situations to this around the country this Sunday?...

 

[Studio20]

Not an NFL restriction so much as bad luck for living in Tampa:

1PM CBS North Florida Jacksonville vs Indianapolis
1PM CBS East Central/South Florida New England vs Miami
1PM FOX Tampa/South Bay Atlanta vs Tampa Bay

 

[chuckydoll]

At least 2 CBS affiliates explain it all

Both are in Pennsylvania and both have to deal with angry Pittsburgh Steelers fans.

WSEE-35 in Erie has posted this explanation on its website:

**WSEE Television is designated, by the NFL, not CBS, as a Buffalo Bills market - this means that WSEE is required to show ALL Buffalo Bills away games. NFL rules also state that only 1 (one) station per market can carry a double-header on any given weekend.

It's why WSEE-35 carried the Bills' win over the Jets yesterday instead of San Diego's division-clincher over Denver.

WHP-21 in Harrisburg shows the Steelers when it can. However, Harrisburg is a designated "secondary market" for the Baltimore Ravens, which means WHP-21 must air the Ravens game if they're on the road. There's only been one such overlap this year: Week 3 (9/24), when Central Penn got Ravens-Browns at 4:05 instead of Bengals-Steelers at 1.

 

[EnbyCee]

...this afternoon, WLAX/25 in La Crosse and WEUX/48 in Chippewa Falls have been running a crawl across the screen apologising to its viewers for not being able to carry the Vikings-Lions game. Interesting, since the Packers are the historically dominant team in fan attention throughout most of Wisconsin (the exceptions being the counties along the border with Illinois, which has progressively become Bears territory over the last dozen years or so, and the St. Croix Valley, which is part of the Minneapolis-St. Paul ADI, thus Vikings territory). Significantly, the Fox station in Rochester (two counties west of La Crosse), KXLT/47, is co-owned with the NBC affiliate there, KTTC/10 (and KTTC's La Crosse translator, W67CH/67), and the ABC affiliates in La Crosse, WXOW/19, and Eau Claire, WQOW/18. (As well as the area CW 100+ cable channels in Rochester, La Crosse and Eau Claire, for that matter.) Thus, I suspect KXLT could exert a bit more power with Fox than WLAX/WEUX can. But WLAX/WEUX are claiming *NFL* restrictions, not Fox. Any similar situations to this around the country this Sunday?...

In this case, they WERE NFL restrictions rather than Fox's. CBS had the doubleheader last Sunday and Fox could only pick one game to run. So even though the Vikings played at noon and the Packers played at 3:05, WLAX and WEUX showed the Packers at 3:05 and had to run infomercials or whatever when the Vikings game aired. I still believe the Packers are the most popular team in western Wisconsin, although there's certainly a sizeable Viking fan minority. Even in the Twin Cities themselves, the Packers are so popular that one of the papers has a regular beat writer covering them now. (if either Chicago paper tried that, I have a feeling their printing presses would develop a case of spontaneous combustion in a hurry).

I don't believe La Crosse and Eau Claire's markets come close enough to Green Bay to be officially considered secondary markets for the Pack by the NFL and be obligated to air all of their road games, so WLAX and WEUX were likely just going with the game they thought would get better ratings, even though the Vikings are still in a playoff drive and the Packers' season is toast. Probably just trying to save themselves phone calls/emails from angry Vikings fans in the area whose initial response would be "those cheeseheads at the station are snubbing us in favor of infomercials/old movies/whatever."

 

[KeithE4]

So what exactly are considered NFL secondary markets?

My guesses:

NFC East
Philadelphia Eagles: Harrisburg/Lancaster, Scranton-Wilkes-Barre, Baltimore (?)
NY Giants: Hartford, Albany/Schenectady
Washington Redskins: Richmond, Baltimore (?), Harrisburg/Lancaster (?)
Dallas Cowboys: Wichita Falls, Sherman/Ardmore, Waco

NFC North
Chicago Bears: South Bend, Champaign/Springfield, Rockford
Green Bay Packers: Milwaukee, Wausau, Madison
Detroit Lions: Flint, Toledo, Lansing
Minnesota Vikings: Rochester, La Crosse/Eau Claire

NFC South
Atlanta Falcons: Macon, Chattanooga
Carolina Panthers: Greenville/Spartanburg/Asheville, Greenville/Winston-Salem
Tampa Bay Bucs: Orlando, Ft. Myers
New Orleans Saints: Baton Rouge, Gulfport/Biloxi

NFC West
Arizona Cardinals: Tucson
San Francisco 49ers: Sacramento, Salinas/Monterrey
Seattle Seahawks: Yakima (?), Portland OR (?)
St. Louis Rams: Columbia/Jefferson City

AFC East
New England Patriots: Providence, Portland ME, Springfield MA (?)
NY Jets: Hartford, Albany/Schenectady
Buffalo Bills: Syracuse, Erie, Rochester
Miami Dolphins: W. Palm Beach

AFC North
Pittsburgh Steelers: Altoona/Johnstown, Wheeling/Steubenville, Youngstown (?)
Cleveland Browns: Columbus, Toledo, Youngstown (?)
Cincinnati Bengals: Dayton
Baltimore Ravens: Harrisburg/Lancaster, Salisbury, Washington (?), Philly (?)

[u[AFC South[/u]
Indianapolis Colts: Terre Haute, Lafayette
Tennessee Titans: Chattanooga, Bowling Green
Houston Texans: Beaumont
Jacksonville Jaguars: Gainesville

AFC West
San Diego Padres: Los Angeles
Oakland Raiders: Sacramento, Monterrey/Salinas
Denver Broncos: Colorado Springs/Pueblo
Kansas City Chiefs: Topeka, St. Joseph (no CBS affiliate there - blacked out on cable?)

I list Washington as a secondary market for the Ravens and Baltimore as one for the Redskins and/or Eagles despite both cities having their own teams. Is this right? I'm not sure of the rule as far as cities within 75 miles that have their own teams.

Also, does the CBS LPTV/translator in Springfield MA count as Springfield or Hartford as far as the NFL is concerned?

 

[chuckydoll]

"Secondary markets" update

Atlanta -- Augusta, Chattanooga, Columbus GA, Macon

Baltimore -- Harrisburg, Salisbury

Carolina -- Columbia SC, Greensboro, Greenville/Spartanburg

Chicago -- Peoria, Quad Cities, Rockford, South Bend

Cincinnati -- Dayton, Lexington

Cleveland -- Toledo, Youngstown

Green Bay -- Milwaukee, Wausau

Jacksonville -- Ocala/Gainesville, Orlando, Savannah

Kansas City -- Topeka

Minnesota -- Austin/Mason City/Rochester

New England -- Portland ME, Providence

New York (both teams) -- Albany NY

Philadelphia -- Harrisburg, Scranton

Pittsburgh -- Altoona/Johnstown, Clarksburg

St. Louis -- Cape Girardeau, Columbia/Jefferson City, Quincy, Springfield/Champaign/Decatur

San Diego Chargers -- Los Angeles, Palm Springs

Seattle -- Portland OR

Tampa Bay -- Fort Myers, Ocala/Gainesville, Orlando

Tennessee -- Chattanooga, Huntsville

Washington -- Charlottesville, Richmond, Salisbury

Hartford is not a Giants or Jets "secondary market". Priority for WFSB-3 is Patriots first, Jets second. Also, Fox61 carried Bears-Patriots instead of Giants-Titans in Week 12.

Columbus OH gets the Bengals and/or Browns depending on the schedule.

 

[EnbyCee]

So what exactly are considered NFL secondary markets?

Secondary markets are markets within a hundred or so miles of an NFL team's home city that the league requires to carry all of said team's ROAD games on TV. I don't believe any market can simultaneously be a secondary market for more than one team except for PERHAPS the two NY teams, and geography matters more than fan loyalties in determining secondary markets; although a majority of those in the Toledo market are Browns fans, especially in the southern and eastern parts of the market where access to Detroit stations is more limited, our Fox affiliate is required to carry every (barf) Lions road game due to our proximity to Detroit. Late last season the Lions and Browns both had a game on CBS simultaneously and since the Lions were at home, our CBS affiliate had the option to choose and carried the Browns game instead.

The excellent NFL TV maps website at www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps now has an operational message board; some of the threads within have further insight on these matters.

It would be nice for reference to get a complete list of secondary markets together: I don't believe one exists online yet.

 

[bigtalkradiofan]

So what exactly are considered NFL secondary markets?

My guesses:

NFC North
Green Bay Packers: Milwaukee, Wausau, Madison

My guesses:

* Green Bay & Milwaukee are the "home" primary markets.

* Madison, Wausau, La Crosse / Eau Claire are the secondary markets.

* I think Superior carries Vikings games because of Duluth (although I thought something like 710 AM or something carries the radio broadcast for the Badgers/Packer games).

 

[oldschooltv]

Re: "Secondary markets" update

Hartford is not a Giants or Jets "secondary market". Priority for WFSB-3 is Patriots first, Jets second. Also, Fox61 carried Bears-Patriots instead of Giants-Titans in Week 12.

Most sports fans in Connecticut (the western and southern areas) that follow the New York teams instead of New England/Boston already have access to the New York City stations both over the air and via cable.

 

[KML0224]

So what exactly are considered NFL secondary markets?

My guesses:

NFC East
Philadelphia Eagles: Harrisburg/Lancaster, Scranton-Wilkes-Barre, Baltimore (?)
NY Giants: Hartford, Albany/Schenectady
Washington Redskins: Richmond, Baltimore (?), Harrisburg/Lancaster (?)
Dallas Cowboys: Wichita Falls, Sherman/Ardmore, Waco

AFC East
New England Patriots: Providence, Portland ME, Springfield MA (?)
NY Jets: Hartford, Albany/Schenectady
Buffalo Bills: Syracuse, Erie, Rochester
Miami Dolphins: W. Palm Beach

Also, does the CBS LPTV/translator in Springfield, MA count as Springfield or Hartford as far as the NFL is concerned?

Hartford/New Haven can indeed be a secondary market for the New York Giants. As for the New York Jets, I'm not too certain. If anything, we'd be a secondary market for the New England Patriots. As for Springfield/Chicopee, MA, WSHM-LP channel 67, a.k.a. "CBS 3" is aimed for Springfield with their own newscast and commercials, etc (despite being operated from Hartford's WFSB-TV). I would consider it a Springfield/Chicopee station. As for FOX, the market is largely stuck with WTIC-TV (FOX) channel 61 of Hartford. I'm not sure who carries WFXT-TV (FOX) channel 25 of Boston on cable out that way, if any.

 

[JayR]

So what exactly are considered NFL secondary markets?

My guesses:

NFC South
Atlanta Falcons: Macon, Chattanooga
Carolina Panthers: Greenville/Spartanburg/Asheville, Greenville/Winston-Salem
Tampa Bay Bucs: Orlando, Ft. Myers
New Orleans Saints: Baton Rouge, Gulfport/Biloxi
..................................................................

AFC East
New England Patriots: Providence, Portland ME, Springfield MA (?)
NY Jets: Hartford, Albany/Schenectady
Buffalo Bills: Syracuse, Erie, Rochester
Miami Dolphins: W. Palm Beach

Fort Myers is a secondary market for both Tampa Bay and Miami. Should both play at the same time on the same network (which doesn't happen often), the following takes place:

CBS -- Miami;
FOX -- Tampa Bay.

Earlier this season, Cincinatti (AFC) visited Tampa Bay (NFC) at 1:00 ET. The game was part of a double-header on CBS. Miami (AFC) played NY Jets (AFC) at 4:15 ET. As the Bucs were making their comeback, the CBS affiliate announced that "due to contractual obligations, we will be leaving this game..." in order to see the beginning of the second game, which was Miami (the same can be said for the West Palm affiliate and Miami CBS station). Needless to say, many Bucs fans here weren't too pleased.

As for a Miami game on FOX: I have yet to catch one here; Bucs have always played at the same time so far.

 

[bhayes1016]

So what exactly are considered NFL secondary markets?

My guesses:

NFC East
Philadelphia Eagles: Harrisburg/Lancaster, Scranton-Wilkes-Barre, Baltimore (?)
NY Giants: Hartford, Albany/Schenectady
Washington Redskins: Richmond, Baltimore (?), Harrisburg/Lancaster (?)
Dallas Cowboys: Wichita Falls, Sherman/Ardmore, Waco

NFC North
Chicago Bears: South Bend, Champaign/Springfield, Rockford
Green Bay Packers: Milwaukee, Wausau, Madison
Detroit Lions: Flint, Toledo, Lansing
Minnesota Vikings: Rochester, La Crosse/Eau Claire

NFC South
Atlanta Falcons: Macon, Chattanooga
Carolina Panthers: Greenville/Spartanburg/Asheville, Greenville/Winston-Salem
Tampa Bay Bucs: Orlando, Ft. Myers
New Orleans Saints: Baton Rouge, Gulfport/Biloxi

NFC West
Arizona Cardinals: Tucson
San Francisco 49ers: Sacramento, Salinas/Monterrey
Seattle Seahawks: Yakima (?), Portland OR (?)
St. Louis Rams: Columbia/Jefferson City

AFC East
New England Patriots: Providence, Portland ME, Springfield MA (?)
NY Jets: Hartford, Albany/Schenectady
Buffalo Bills: Syracuse, Erie, Rochester
Miami Dolphins: W. Palm Beach

AFC North
Pittsburgh Steelers: Altoona/Johnstown, Wheeling/Steubenville, Youngstown (?)
Cleveland Browns: Columbus, Toledo, Youngstown (?)
Cincinnati Bengals: Dayton
Baltimore Ravens: Harrisburg/Lancaster, Salisbury, Washington (?), Philly (?)

[u[AFC South[/u]
Indianapolis Colts: Terre Haute, Lafayette
Tennessee Titans: Chattanooga, Bowling Green
Houston Texans: Beaumont
Jacksonville Jaguars: Gainesville

AFC West
San Diego Padres: Los Angeles
Oakland Raiders: Sacramento, Monterrey/Salinas
Denver Broncos: Colorado Springs/Pueblo
Kansas City Chiefs: Topeka, St. Joseph (no CBS affiliate there - blacked out on cable?)

I list Washington as a secondary market for the Ravens and Baltimore as one for the Redskins and/or Eagles despite both cities having their own teams. Is this right? I'm not sure of the rule as far as cities within 75 miles that have their own teams.

Also, does the CBS LPTV/translator in Springfield MA count as Springfield or Hartford as far as the NFL is concerned?

I THINK the Waco market is just outside the 75-mile radius of Texas Stadium, I could be wrong.
Houston's secondary markets are Beaumont/Port Arthur and Bryan/College Station.
Washington and Baltimore are not secondary markets for each other's teams. They are an exception to the NFL rules.
Apparently, Syracuse is a blackout market for the Bills, only because a very small rural stretch of the Syracuse market is 75 miles from the Bills' stadium.

 

[chuckydoll]

Correction to "secondary markets" update

Pittsburgh "secondary markets" are Altoona/Johnstown, Clarksburg/Fairmont and Wheeling/Steubenville.

I tried to edit my earlier post but was not allowed to.