FM part 15: an UNREAL experience.

[radiooke]

> The Veronica PLL 100mw should be your last choice in a
> transmitter for a number of reasons. You would be better off
> with a Ramsey 35 padded down.
> My first choice is the EDM, second would be Wavemach's 100
> milliwatt unit.
> The Panaxis would also be ok if equipped with the new stereo
> generator. Panaxis does have better documentation and is
> easily configured to different output levels. The Panaxis
> FMX can be topped out at about 350 milliwatts, if sound
> quality matters to you avoid the Panaxis if you plan on
> operating in mono; audio quality leaves allot to be desired
> "Bass rolls off at 100hz". The new Panaxis stereo generator
> bypasses the mono audio section providing much audio
> quality.
> The EDM is my first choice because the transmitter offers
> the most bang for the buck, another plus EDM provides
> outstanding customer service. The 100 milliwatt version has
> additional filtering, padded down its very clean.
> At one time the FCC entertained bumping up the max power
> for part 15 to a watt on FM, as you might of guessed that
> ideal was quickly killed off by our friends at the N.A.B..
>
> Steve
> Radio Brandy
>
>
This looks like a good deal http://fmtv.us/tx/03.htm Anyone used this?
http://fmtv.us/ <P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by radiooke on 09/16/05 01:47 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[radiopilot]

> > The Veronica PLL 100mw should be your last choice in a
> > transmitter for a number of reasons. You would be better
> off
> > with a Ramsey 35 padded down.
> > My first choice is the EDM, second would be Wavemach's 100
>
> > milliwatt unit.
> > The Panaxis would also be ok if equipped with the new
> stereo
> > generator. Panaxis does have better documentation and is
> > easily configured to different output levels. The Panaxis
> > FMX can be topped out at about 350 milliwatts, if sound
> > quality matters to you avoid the Panaxis if you plan on
> > operating in mono; audio quality leaves allot to be
> desired
> > "Bass rolls off at 100hz". The new Panaxis stereo
> generator
> > bypasses the mono audio section providing much audio
> > quality.
> > The EDM is my first choice because the transmitter
> offers
> > the most bang for the buck, another plus EDM provides
> > outstanding customer service. The 100 milliwatt version
> has
> > additional filtering, padded down its very clean.
> > At one time the FCC entertained bumping up the max power
>
> > for part 15 to a watt on FM, as you might of guessed that
> > ideal was quickly killed off by our friends at the N.A.B..
>
> >
> > Steve
> > Radio Brandy
> >
> >
> This looks like a good deal http://fmtv.us/tx/03.htm Anyone
> used this?
> http://fmtv.us/
>

I've seen these on Ebay, anywhere from 100mw to 5 watts, but from the look of the quality of the components.. these look more like the quality of Belkins, Ipod fm broadcasters... not the quality of something you want on for 24/7 and various environmental conditions... I've drop the SSTRAN more than a dozen times from 30 feet to the ground, zap the transmitter with 12v/6 amp DC charger by mistake and the unit is solid! The designer knew what he was doing!

Don't look at too many SMD (surface mount devices) in units built for quality, look for large discreet components for long life/fail safe quality! This we have learned on military electronics at Boeing/Nasa!

Radiopilot

 

[radiooke]

> > > The Veronica PLL 100mw should be your last choice in a
> > > transmitter for a number of reasons. You would be better
>
> > off
> > > with a Ramsey 35 padded down.
> > > My first choice is the EDM, second would be Wavemach's
> 100
> >
> > > milliwatt unit.
> > > The Panaxis would also be ok if equipped with the new
> > stereo
> > > generator. Panaxis does have better documentation and is
>
> > > easily configured to different output levels. The
> Panaxis
> > > FMX can be topped out at about 350 milliwatts, if sound
> > > quality matters to you avoid the Panaxis if you plan on
> > > operating in mono; audio quality leaves allot to be
> > desired
> > > "Bass rolls off at 100hz". The new Panaxis stereo
> > generator
> > > bypasses the mono audio section providing much audio
> > > quality.
> > > The EDM is my first choice because the transmitter
> > offers
> > > the most bang for the buck, another plus EDM provides
> > > outstanding customer service. The 100 milliwatt version
> > has
> > > additional filtering, padded down its very clean.
> > > At one time the FCC entertained bumping up the max
> power
> >
> > > for part 15 to a watt on FM, as you might of guessed
> that
> > > ideal was quickly killed off by our friends at the
> N.A.B..
> >
> > >
> > > Steve
> > > Radio Brandy
> > >
> > >
> > This looks like a good deal http://fmtv.us/tx/03.htm
> Anyone
> > used this?
> > http://fmtv.us/
> >
>
> I've seen these on Ebay, anywhere from 100mw to 5 watts, but
> from the look of the quality of the components.. these look
> more like the quality of Belkins, Ipod fm broadcasters...
> not the quality of something you want on for 24/7 and
> various environmental conditions... I've drop the SSTRAN
> more than a dozen times from 30 feet to the ground, zap the
> transmitter with 12v/6 amp DC charger by mistake and the
> unit is solid! The designer knew what he was doing!
>
> Don't look at too many SMD (surface mount devices) in units
> built for quality, look for large discreet components for
> long life/fail safe quality! This we have learned on
> military electronics at Boeing/Nasa!
>
> Radiopilot
>
I was just reading through the figures. One point states 60dBu for the SNR but on the actual measurement display it shows 49.052dB?? Is this the same but in another unit format? I know dB but not dBu. Also distortion says better than 0.2% and the display shows 0.283% better should be < 0.2%??Is this just playing with figures and units?

 

[Tom_Desmond]

> At one time the FCC entertained bumping up the max power
> for part 15 to a watt on FM, as you might of guessed that
> ideal was quickly killed off by our friends at the N.A.B..

I've never heard of this. When did the FCC consider such a rule change?

 

[RADIOBRANDY]

Re: FM part 15: FMTV.US experience.

I have a FMTV.US 1 watt stereo transmitter that I bought for mobile use. A major drawback of this transmitter is that any adjustments via the two buttons knocks it off the air. Because it drops carrier everytime you push the set up buttons adjusting the transmitter is a nightmare. Another draw back is a lack of documentation for different versions of software. I have seen three different versions each with a different set-up menu. My version has excessive harmonics when compared to other transmitters I have tested. Another weakness is the audio inputs : I connected a battery operated Radio Shack mixer to the unit, It popped the surface mount caps staight out. Turns out the Radio Shack mixer had 3 vdc on the audio output, my other transmitters have no problem with the higher voltage. Radio Pilot is correct avoid all surface mount transmitters like the FMTV.US if you can.
Though an EQ I have been able to bring the sound quality of the FMTV.US up to a level that sounds close to the other stations and filtered the RF output to cut harmonics down. I know there are new versions with a 4 watt output on e-Bay for around $225. The higher power will only invite a knock on the door with the harmonics this unit puts out.
In reviewing transmitters I ask myself would I buy a second one?. I still have only one FMTV.US transmitter.
Compare that to transmitters purchaced in the last
three years
FM
10 Panaxis FMX (three+ years)
2 Broadcast Warehouse
2 EDM (More to be added)
1 Ramsey 10
1 FMTV.US
AM
5 Rangemasters
7 Sstran
2 LPB
e-Bay has been good to us with AM!
If you bid for the FMTV transmitter keep it under $225, Dave2020
(Wavemach) has good transmiters on e-Bay often. Dave's two watter is a better deal.

Steve
www.radiobrandy.com
> This looks like a good deal http://fmtv.us/tx/03.htm Anyone
> used this?
> http://fmtv.us/
>

 

[radiooke]

Re: FM part 15: FMTV.US experience.

> I have a FMTV.US 1 watt stereo transmitter that I bought for
> mobile use. A major drawback of this transmitter is that any
> adjustments via the two buttons knocks it off the air.
> Because it drops carrier everytime you push the set up
> buttons adjusting the transmitter is a nightmare. Another
> draw back is a lack of documentation for different versions
> of software. I have seen three different versions each with
> a different set-up menu. My version has excessive harmonics
> when compared to other transmitters I have tested. Another
> weakness is the audio inputs : I connected a battery
> operated Radio Shack mixer to the unit, It popped the
> surface mount caps staight out. Turns out the Radio Shack
> mixer had 3 vdc on the audio output, my other transmitters
> have no problem with the higher voltage. Radio Pilot is
> correct avoid all surface mount transmitters like the
> FMTV.US if you can.
> Though an EQ I have been able to bring the sound quality of
> the FMTV.US up to a level that sounds close to the other
> stations and filtered the RF output to cut harmonics down. I
> know there are new versions with a 4 watt output on e-Bay
> for around $225. The higher power will only invite a knock
> on the door with the harmonics this unit puts out.
> In reviewing transmitters I ask myself would I buy a second
> one?. I still have only one FMTV.US transmitter.
> Compare that to transmitters purchaced in the last
> three years
> FM
> 10 Panaxis FMX (three+ years)
> 2 Broadcast Warehouse
> 2 EDM (More to be added)
> 1 Ramsey 10
> 1 FMTV.US
> AM
> 5 Rangemasters
> 7 Sstran
> 2 LPB
> e-Bay has been good to us with AM!
> If you bid for the FMTV transmitter keep it under $225,
> Dave2020
> (Wavemach) has good transmiters on e-Bay often. Dave's two
> watter is a better deal.
>
> Steve
> www.radiobrandy.com

Wow! you must know your transmitters!

Looking at the EDM page I have noticed they provide "extensive" specifications on their unit that I have not found with other products. I don't understand all of it but at least it looks like they have nothing to hide performance wise! Thanks for the tip to stay away from the FMTV as well! It looked like a good buy.

> > This looks like a good deal http://fmtv.us/tx/03.htm
> Anyone
> > used this?
> > http://fmtv.us/
> >
>

 

[radiomike]

There is no such thing as not causing interference, and you will be ok. The part 15 rules limit the field strength of the signal, not power output in the US. In addition, the FCC puts upon manufacturers of these devices a certification requirement for legal part 15 use. Ironically, if you buy a 1 watt transmitter (not certified for part 15) and pad it down, you can still be in violation of the the rules! The FCC does not care if you are over the limit by a little or a lot, though the lot will get their attention quicker, and particularly if you are causing interference or selling commercials, which will usually get the newspaper or the local radio stations on your tail. If you are putting a signal that is on the air and covering your community on FM or a good chunk of it, you eventually will get noticed.

Someone asked me if I have a part 15 transmitter. I do, and it is a Decade units, stereo, part 15 certified. It gets out about 500-1000 feet. For what I use it for in my application, it is fine. Sure, I would love it to be more robust. However, it does the job.

There have been some proposals floated for event broadcasting and other "temporary" services, that could use up to a watt of power. THis would be for in-stadium or fair type broadcasts, an over-glorified TIS type system. Thsi was the only realistic application I saw for extending part 15 limits. In fact, the FCC had experimental licenses to the NFL and NHL for this purpose in the past. I have not seen anything recently nor any traction on this, and it was not something they were going to make "blanket" for the average hobbyist.

 

[kc8gpd]

Best thing to do when running AM or FM.

Notify the Local Field office of your operation.
This will go a long way if you get complaints.

Tell them what kind of transmitter(s) you have.

How High it is.

How much power.

Antenna gain/coax loss.

Frequency of operation.

Hours of operation.

How far you are getting to the average walkman, boombox, and car radio.

Plot this out on a local map.

Give them your name, phone number, mailing adress, and physical location of transmitter(s)

This will go a long way when a complaint shows up, they will be much happier/Friendlier if they don't have to come out and hunt you down. This will also help them discriminate between BS complaints and Legit complaints
and they will be more helpful if they get a legit complaint, because they will see you are trying to do things properly and are more likely to help you correct your operation to comply with part 15, and are more likely to give you a informal phone call as opposed to official visit which will generate offical paper work garunteeing you from being eligable for any kind of license in the future.







> There is no such thing as not causing interference, and you
> will be ok. The part 15 rules limit the field strength of
> the signal, not power output in the US. In addition, the FCC
> puts upon manufacturers of these devices a certification
> requirement for legal part 15 use. Ironically, if you buy a
> 1 watt transmitter (not certified for part 15) and pad it
> down, you can still be in violation of the the rules! The
> FCC does not care if you are over the limit by a little or a
> lot, though the lot will get their attention quicker, and
> particularly if you are causing interference or selling
> commercials, which will usually get the newspaper or the
> local radio stations on your tail. If you are putting a
> signal that is on the air and covering your community on FM
> or a good chunk of it, you eventually will get noticed.
>
> Someone asked me if I have a part 15 transmitter. I do, and
> it is a Decade units, stereo, part 15 certified. It gets out
> about 500-1000 feet. For what I use it for in my
> application, it is fine. Sure, I would love it to be more
> robust. However, it does the job.
>
> There have been some proposals floated for event
> broadcasting and other "temporary" services, that could use
> up to a watt of power. THis would be for in-stadium or fair
> type broadcasts, an over-glorified TIS type system. Thsi was
> the only realistic application I saw for extending part 15
> limits. In fact, the FCC had experimental licenses to the
> NFL and NHL for this purpose in the past. I have not seen
> anything recently nor any traction on this, and it was not
> something they were going to make "blanket" for the average
> hobbyist.
> <P ID="signature">______________
Rev. Robert P. Chrysafis
Universal Life Ministries (ULC)

http://www.freecycle.org
Join the FreeCycle Revolution</P>

 

[carlvanorden]

Re: I'm doing it legally on FM, and AM

> > Well I've been a bit quiet about this, so I'll fill ya in> a> > bit.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>my thing is to> test> > small transmitters and antennas, to see the quality. I> can> > dismiss several, but I'll add that for AM, sstran is> > superior; for FM, EDM seems superior......for all the> > reasons important: sound, range,> > price......................> > There has always been the 500> > foot rule with FM; in fact most legal part 15FM's do about> > > 200 foot, or a decent back yard and part of your> neighbors'> > property...........Like AM, choosing a frequency is really> > > important; the clearer, the better......and if you live> in> > Oklahoma where there isn't a mountain in sight, any of> these> > FM's may go a lot farther than 200-500 feet> > naturally.......................> > If you take the EDM 100 (not> > the lower power version) and put it in the worst possible> > enviornment.....metal house, no antenna, facing a mountain> > > or in a valley, you will still hear a superior signal of> the> > quality of most FM stations.....how far your signal gets> out> > will depend on your height. But lets say you have several> > > clear frequencies, and use nothing but the 4 foot long> wire> > as an antenna......the possibility for a clear community> > station comes alive.....it is not that the range is going> to> > put your nearby FM neighbor out of business, but the> signal> > is solid enough to cover a small community......as long as> > > there is no interference at all, I see no rules broken.> > (please reread what I said; NO INTERFERENCE TO ANYONE IN> > ANYWAY).> > Interference begats complaints and complaints infer> > an investigation. If you have a signal where there is no> > other, and obey the basic rules of fair broadcasting, most> > > of the part 15 transmitters and antennas will give you> what> > you are looking for and still live within the basics that> > the rules were meant to enforce.> > > > Carl... Thanks for the input... i'm running the SSTRAN and> it's getting the range I wanted... but nightime skywave> REALLY kills it here. Like you said the signal is great...> during the day...> > What I wanted was an FM small community radio earlier> (LPFM), of course that is an impossibilty here in my neck of> the woods... > > I would like to use any FM transmitter even at power levels> of 50mw... but even at that power level, the FCC has a legal> standing to shut you done if one were to call you in,> anybody! > > I'd like to hear stories of the FCC coming to the door of> anybody using an FM transmitter 1 watt or less... What was> the experience with the FCC with low power levels... sure> they'd break the door down for anything over 5 watts or> more.... but what do they say for someone with 100mw -> 500mw's FM? Do they just chuckle and say... 'turn the power> down some' or fine you or confiscate the equipment? I'd hate> to use a $100.00 transmitter and have the FCC fine you> $1000-$10,000 or worse confiscate $5000 worth of> computer/radio equipment!> > I like the sound of FM and it has it's merits but illegaly> broadcasting 1/4 mile or less is not worth it for me unless> the FCC is a little more forgiving on FM. Interference is> not the issue but more the fact that people may like your> station or programming better that the million dollars boys> and get you turned in! Such is the jealous, greedy folks at> the NAB and the corporate radio bunch. > > Some small pirate broadcasters have got several years> broadcasting with levels over part15, too risky...but to> have a stand alone station without FCC fears is much, much> better. > > Radiopilot> And you can too!.....The fact is the signal is strong, but it doesn't interfere with anyone, not even cable on FM, so in as much as the am part 15 during the day is great, it isn't at night...the fm does great at night.Believe me, 10mW FM does fantastic...check it out....it is really all ya need.<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected], [email protected],[email protected]</P>