Decline in Listeners Worries Orchestras

[bigtalkradiofan]

NYT article on the current status of the classical music industry (which, of course, has implications for classical music on public radio).

Note - I also copied this post to the previous discussion on this topic (on the bottom of the first page, beginning of the second page of the Noncommercial forum).


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/25/arts/music/25ravi.html?th&emc=th

Decline in Listeners Worries Orchestras
New York Times
By ANNE MIDGETTE
Published: June 25, 2005

NYT Story Excerpt:

"All over the Western world, the alarm is sounding that classical music is in trouble. Orchestra subscription sales are dropping widely, in some cases by as much as two percentage points a year. Ensembles are not balancing their budgets. Audiences are getting older; young people are turned off by classical music. The Chicago Symphony can no longer sell decently even at its own festival. So, at least, goes the refrain.

Is it true that people don't want classical music anymore? Or is it just a question of how to give it to them? And is it even possible - heresy of heresies - that they are being given too much of it?"
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by bigtalkradiofan on 06/27/05 12:56 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[testing]

Interesting-- thanks for the link!

I'm going to disagree just a little with your premise and say that the decline of Classical audiences for concert-hall performances of classical music does not necessarily mean bad news for Classical radio. in fact, it may mean just the opposite. Classical radio can be consumed on your own timetable, in the convenience of your own home, car, office, wherever. you do not need to buy tickets, dress up, get a sitter, worry about parking, etc. all you have to do is turn on the radio...

classical organizations and venues SHOULD be worried. they have not changed the basic way they do things in 80 years, with some notable exceptions. people are not going to concerts because it is not attractive to them for whatever reason. maybe they don't want to get dressed up, they think the whole thing is over their head, the music doesn't speak to them or is not attractive in some way.

maybe they'd rather wear jeans and go to a club to hear this music instead of a stuffy concert hall. There's a young cellist, matt haimovitz, who is doing just that, taking classical cello to clubs and getting raves for it...maybe it is the way it is presented. I don't know, I'm just speculating! these guys have got to think outside the box!





> NYT article on the current status of the classical music
> industry (which, of course, has implications for classical
> music on public radio).
>
> Note - I also copied this post to the previous discussion on
> this topic (on the bottom of the first page, beginning of
> the second page of the Noncommercial forum).
>
>
http:/> /www.nytimes.com/2005/06/25/arts/music/25ravi.html?th&emc=th
>
>
> Decline in Listeners Worries Orchestras
> New York Times
> By ANNE MIDGETTE
> Published: June 25, 2005
>
> NYT Story Excerpt:
>
> "All over the Western world, the alarm is sounding that
> classical music is in trouble. Orchestra subscription sales
> are dropping widely, in some cases by as much as two
> percentage points a year. Ensembles are not balancing their
> budgets. Audiences are getting older; young people are
> turned off by classical music. The Chicago Symphony can no
> longer sell decently even at its own festival. So, at least,
> goes the refrain.
>
> Is it true that people don't want classical music anymore?
> Or is it just a question of how to give it to them? And is
> it even possible - heresy of heresies - that they are being
> given too much of it?"
>

 

[Les]

Think about it....

When in their primes, the composers we think of these days in terms of
classical music were most avant-garde! They drove out the old and
started something entirely new. But what the did got old and it's still
being performed.

Maybe there's room for new compositions that don't slave themselves
to outmoded constructs.

Then, consider these:

1. No new venues with any decent parking. People won't park in dark,
unsafe city streets to walk, in fancy clothese to a venue.

2. In fact, very few people own the clothes for it anymore. I'm writing
this from on board a cruise ship off Alaska. All the officers are puzzled
why the cafeterias are so busy and the dining room is almost empty on
"formal" nights. Could it be that people aren't into fancy dress anymore?

<P ID="signature">______________

Due to underwhelming popular demand...</P>

 

[testing]

Re: Think about it....

another good point.



> When in their primes, the composers we think of these days
> in terms of
> classical music were most avant-garde! They drove out the
> old and
> started something entirely new. But what the did got old and
> it's still
> being performed.
>
> Maybe there's room for new compositions that don't slave
> themselves
> to outmoded constructs.
>
> Then, consider these:
>
> 1. No new venues with any decent parking. People won't
> park in dark,
> unsafe city streets to walk, in fancy clothese to a venue.
>
>
> 2. In fact, very few people own the clothes for it anymore.
> I'm writing
> this from on board a cruise ship off Alaska. All the
> officers are puzzled
> why the cafeterias are so busy and the dining room is almost
> empty on
> "formal" nights. Could it be that people aren't into fancy
> dress anymore?
>

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Re: Think about it....

You may be on to something.

Item #1 I believe is correct. Cities generally have higher crime rates and the opera houses, theatres, concert halls are, for the most part, in center cities. Sure suburban people would be uncomfortable walking around a dark city street anyhow, but especially if they are in fancy clothes that say, we've got money.

Item #2 I believe this is also correct. Even in church, the younger people do not get dressed up to go to church. The fastest growing churches in the nation are those that have Praise and Worship style music (lively Christian rock music that uses a live praise band and singers rather than hymns that use an organ and choir). These church services are also casual attire services where jeans, shorts, etc are ok and encouraged. We just aren't a society that's in to dressing formal as was the case in years past.

Open air concerts in parks, etc where the audience can dress casually are seem to be very popular. Usually these are free or for a fee that is less costly as the concert hall which can be pricy. Some other advantages to the outdoor concert is of course casual dress is allowed, plus you may bring your favorite beverage and snacks, etc to enjoy while sitting outdoors listening to the beautiful music. Compare this to sitting in a tight narrow area of a balcony seat of the theatre (who can afford the Orchestra or Mezzanine level which have more leg room, plusher seats, etc)in a more formal stuffy atmosphere.

>
> Then, consider these:
>
> 1. No new venues with any decent parking. People won't
> park in dark,
> unsafe city streets to walk, in fancy clothese to a venue.
>
>
> 2. In fact, very few people own the clothes for it anymore.
> I'm writing
> this from on board a cruise ship off Alaska. All the
> officers are puzzled
> why the cafeterias are so busy and the dining room is almost
> empty on
> "formal" nights. Could it be that people aren't into fancy
> dress anymore?
>

 

[bigtalkradiofan]

While I completely agree with most of your comments (i.e. that classical organizations and venues need to rethink and adapt to changing tastes, and that many people prefer a more low-key dress attire atmosphere); let me play devil's advocate for second...

I agree that the decline of Classical audiences for concert-hall performances of classical music does not "necessarily" mean bad news for Classical radio (Note - my quotes marks).

But if we link:

a.) Concert Halls - The decline of Classical audiences for concert-hall performances of classical music (e.g. New York Times article).

b.) Radio - Declining number of stations playing classical music and low (and/or declining) classical radio ratings (e.g. the previous Non-Commercial thread titled "Classical Music's Last Gasp On Public Radio")

A + B could indicate = a general trend of decreasing numbers of listeners of classical music (on public radio).




> Interesting-- thanks for the link!
>
> I'm going to disagree just a little with your premise and
> say that the decline of Classical audiences for concert-hall
> performances of classical music does not necessarily mean
> bad news for Classical radio. in fact, it may mean just the
> opposite. Classical radio can be consumed on your own
> timetable, in the convenience of your own home, car, office,
> wherever. you do not need to buy tickets, dress up, get a
> sitter, worry about parking, etc. all you have to do is
> turn on the radio...
>
> classical organizations and venues SHOULD be worried. they
> have not changed the basic way they do things in 80 years,
> with some notable exceptions. people are not going to
> concerts because it is not attractive to them for whatever
> reason. maybe they don't want to get dressed up, they think
> the whole thing is over their head, the music doesn't speak
> to them or is not attractive in some way.
>
> maybe they'd rather wear jeans and go to a club to hear this
> music instead of a stuffy concert hall. There's a young
> cellist, matt haimovitz, who is doing just that, taking
> classical cello to clubs and getting raves for it...maybe it
> is the way it is presented. I don't know, I'm just
> speculating! these guys have got to think outside the box!
>
>
>
>
>
> > NYT article on the current status of the classical music
> > industry (which, of course, has implications for classical
>
> > music on public radio).
> >
> > Note - I also copied this post to the previous discussion
> on
> > this topic (on the bottom of the first page, beginning of
> > the second page of the Noncommercial forum).
> >
> >
> http:/>
> /www.nytimes.com/2005/06/25/arts/music/25ravi.html?th&emc=th
>
> >
> >
> > Decline in Listeners Worries Orchestras
> > New York Times
> > By ANNE MIDGETTE
> > Published: June 25, 2005
> >
> > NYT Story Excerpt:
> >
> > "All over the Western world, the alarm is sounding that
> > classical music is in trouble. Orchestra subscription
> sales
> > are dropping widely, in some cases by as much as two
> > percentage points a year. Ensembles are not balancing
> their
> > budgets. Audiences are getting older; young people are
> > turned off by classical music. The Chicago Symphony can no
>
> > longer sell decently even at its own festival. So, at
> least,
> > goes the refrain.
> >
> > Is it true that people don't want classical music anymore?
>
> > Or is it just a question of how to give it to them? And is
>
> > it even possible - heresy of heresies - that they are
> being
> > given too much of it?"
> >
>

 

[testing]

Hey, it's possible, bigtalkradiofan! there could be a trend, you could be right.

here's my opinion, though-- purely anecdotal, no evidence to back it up, so take it with a grain of salt...

I think people like this music. Maybe not a lot of people, but enough to sustain a full-time classical music public radio station in a large market western city not known for it's "highbrow culture", (in the case of our station)... people like the music, but they are just not into the traditional classical concert experience that much anymore... I know I'm not!

one cool thing I've seen happenning here is a chamber music series held in various art galleries around town. people get to have a glass or two of wine, look at some art, and hear some music in a rather hip setting. It's a great idea, and it usually sells out.

just some ruminatin.'




> While I completely agree with most of your comments (i.e.
> that classical organizations and venues need to rethink and
> adapt to changing tastes, and that many people prefer a more
> low-key dress attire atmosphere); let me play devil's
> advocate for second...
>
> I agree that the decline of Classical audiences for
> concert-hall performances of classical music does not
> "necessarily" mean bad news for Classical radio (Note - my
> quotes marks).
>
> But if we link:
>
> a.) Concert Halls - The decline of Classical audiences for
> concert-hall performances of classical music (e.g. New York
> Times article).
>
> b.) Radio - Declining number of stations playing classical
> music and low (and/or declining) classical radio ratings
> (e.g. the previous Non-Commercial thread titled "Classical
> Music's Last Gasp On Public Radio")
>
> A + B could indicate = a general trend of decreasing numbers
> of listeners of classical music (on public radio).
>
>
>
>
> > Interesting-- thanks for the link!
> >
> > I'm going to disagree just a little with your premise and
> > say that the decline of Classical audiences for
> concert-hall
> > performances of classical music does not necessarily mean
> > bad news for Classical radio. in fact, it may mean just
> the
> > opposite. Classical radio can be consumed on your own
> > timetable, in the convenience of your own home, car,
> office,
> > wherever. you do not need to buy tickets, dress up, get
> a
> > sitter, worry about parking, etc. all you have to do is
> > turn on the radio...
> >
> > classical organizations and venues SHOULD be worried.
> they
> > have not changed the basic way they do things in 80 years,
>
> > with some notable exceptions. people are not going to
> > concerts because it is not attractive to them for whatever
>
> > reason. maybe they don't want to get dressed up, they
> think
> > the whole thing is over their head, the music doesn't
> speak
> > to them or is not attractive in some way.
> >
> > maybe they'd rather wear jeans and go to a club to hear
> this
> > music instead of a stuffy concert hall. There's a young
> > cellist, matt haimovitz, who is doing just that, taking
> > classical cello to clubs and getting raves for it...maybe
> it
> > is the way it is presented. I don't know, I'm just
> > speculating! these guys have got to think outside the
> box!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > NYT article on the current status of the classical music
>
> > > industry (which, of course, has implications for
> classical
> >
> > > music on public radio).
> > >
> > > Note - I also copied this post to the previous
> discussion
> > on
> > > this topic (on the bottom of the first page, beginning
> of
> > > the second page of the Noncommercial forum).
> > >
> > >
> > http:/>
> >
> /www.nytimes.com/2005/06/25/arts/music/25ravi.html?th&emc=th
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Decline in Listeners Worries Orchestras
> > > New York Times
> > > By ANNE MIDGETTE
> > > Published: June 25, 2005
> > >
> > > NYT Story Excerpt:
> > >
> > > "All over the Western world, the alarm is sounding that
> > > classical music is in trouble. Orchestra subscription
> > sales
> > > are dropping widely, in some cases by as much as two
> > > percentage points a year. Ensembles are not balancing
> > their
> > > budgets. Audiences are getting older; young people are
> > > turned off by classical music. The Chicago Symphony can
> no
> >
> > > longer sell decently even at its own festival. So, at
> > least,
> > > goes the refrain.
> > >
> > > Is it true that people don't want classical music
> anymore?
> >
> > > Or is it just a question of how to give it to them? And
> is
> >
> > > it even possible - heresy of heresies - that they are
> > being
> > > given too much of it?"
> > >
> >
>