hahahahahaha If 105.3 KRLD-FM is not hurting KTCK AM/FM then what makes you think KEGL flipping to sport will hurt KTCK.
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Dallas-Ft. Worth Radio Ratings: August 2022
- Thread starter pjc1961
- Start date
The LAST thing Eagle needs to do is to go sports. Competing with The Ticket and The Fan would be a very bad business decision. No one is listening to the Mavs on radio. How are you going to build a SPORTS station based on the Mavs? 🤣
Ben & Skin and "The Treehouse" are examples of neutered talk shows. They are TALK LIGHT. There is nothing remotely edgy and there's rarely anything covered that would pertain to a traditional EAGLE listener. It almost sounds like men doing a talk show for women. Pairing wine with food, The Bachelor tv show, extensive hour long conversations about Country music. Have any of you listened to these shows? Has Eagle management listened to any of these shows?
Either drop the alt and classic rock and do ROCK all day like it's supposed to be done, or change it to smooth jazz. Not a joke.
Ben & Skin and "The Treehouse" are examples of neutered talk shows. They are TALK LIGHT. There is nothing remotely edgy and there's rarely anything covered that would pertain to a traditional EAGLE listener. It almost sounds like men doing a talk show for women. Pairing wine with food, The Bachelor tv show, extensive hour long conversations about Country music. Have any of you listened to these shows? Has Eagle management listened to any of these shows?
Either drop the alt and classic rock and do ROCK all day like it's supposed to be done, or change it to smooth jazz. Not a joke.
Rock music would be good to go along with the Eagle/Mavericks Radio Network. Men may stick around for basketball on the radio. Being an Adult R&B and having to stop down the music for Dallas Mavericks Basketball would be a killer. Women typically like to watch basketball and not listen to it.
What are the chances of "iHeart" flipping 97.1 at all? Seems like DFW radio is immune to changing formats lately. Only exception is 88.1.
I don’t think they will. Just like everybody was wringing their hands last year over 103.7. Maybe all it takes is dropping the shows.(or is there something in the contract with the Mavs about keeping one of the shows) Dropping the shows ended up working out alright for 103.7. Also, I’d argue 88.1 is about 30 years too late on the flip. If 88.1 was a typical college station like KTCU, there would’ve been less demand for an Edge.
It will take a while to see what happens with KNTU. This was just the first brief glance. KNTU also has not advertised the format change at all. (no billboards) It's going to take word of mouth for them to see numbers. The important thing for them is not Nielsen numbers, it's student participation and underwriting. It seems logical to assume they'll attract more students to volunteer to work at a rock station than a jazz station. I hope that works because that's how you might find the next good DJ for this market. I also think they'll find it easier to get sponsors for this format than jazz. We'll see if it moves the needle at all.
As for the rest of the book: I do find it kind of funny that since KERA made the deal to manage WRR, the numbers for WRR have generally gone up, even though KERA has yet to take over.
I'm also impressed at how well AM is doing. The AM stations accounted for a 13 share overall. Admittedly, a lot of KTCKs listenerhip is on FM, but we don't have that breakout. But as down as AM had been, it's an impressive rebound.
As for the rest of the book: I do find it kind of funny that since KERA made the deal to manage WRR, the numbers for WRR have generally gone up, even though KERA has yet to take over.
I'm also impressed at how well AM is doing. The AM stations accounted for a 13 share overall. Admittedly, a lot of KTCKs listenerhip is on FM, but we don't have that breakout. But as down as AM had been, it's an impressive rebound.
Flipping to sports might make sense from an armchair quarterback's perspective, but it doesn’t make nearly as much from the operator's.
If you're going to do sports in a major market and do it well, it's expensive. Local sports talk shows cost a lot of money, and you're not going to do particularly well running wall-to-wall satellite programming. Plus, even ESPN carriage at least used to be fairly expensive, and it had a high barter requirement. iHeart might still syndicate Fox Sports, but that network is mostly second and third rate programming.
As someone else mentioned, KRLD-FM barely holds its own against the Ticket. I'm sure it outbills its ratings share, but from where would all those extra sports listeners come? I'll grant you that sports often sells with low ratings and few listeners, but there are still only so many advertisers. Likely ranking 3rd of three sports stations and having to compete with play-by-play on even more won’t likely attract many advertisers, especially not at a premium price.
KEGL needs to dump the classic rock and focus on the 90s-00s. Let KZPS take on the older classic rock material.
A playlist similar to 99.5 KISS—San Antonio where they dig a little deeper into 90s rock could sound good. However unlike KISS, they could still play some new stuff—maybe even focus more on newer, harder rock at night and play more 90s gold during the day.
Play music during the afternoon talk shows. If the Mavs makes them money, keep them.
A playlist similar to 99.5 KISS—San Antonio where they dig a little deeper into 90s rock could sound good. However unlike KISS, they could still play some new stuff—maybe even focus more on newer, harder rock at night and play more 90s gold during the day.
Play music during the afternoon talk shows. If the Mavs makes them money, keep them.
If you look at iHeart from a national perspective, they do better running play-by-play sports on a music station than running an all-sports talk station. Take a look at KJR-Seattle. Earlier this year, they flipped a full power FM to simulcast their AM sports station, and it's below a 1 share. They're getting killed by KIRO.
The problem with the sports format is it's expensive. You have to pay local talent to fill all that time between games. They need talent that can be topical and get people to listen during the day. The syndicated sports shows fill the time, but don't get ratings. Much cheaper to play music.
The problem with the sports format is it's expensive. You have to pay local talent to fill all that time between games. They need talent that can be topical and get people to listen during the day. The syndicated sports shows fill the time, but don't get ratings. Much cheaper to play music.
The 13 AM shares are almost totally found among 55+ and 65+ people.
Even if KTCK-FM does not cover the full market, it's probable based on other market experiencias that the FM represents in excess of 60% of the AQH listening. So, in 25-54 I count about 4.6 shares for AM stations.
That's not a "rebound" as there have been about the same pure AM shares (discounting the FM combos) for a decade.
I am amused by all the FM Sports Talk suggestions. In Houston the same is said. There it's simulcast one of the two AMs on FM and the same people complain about so many sports talk stations and how some have such a tiny audience.
You have to remember a few things: FM signals are worth big bucks in major metros, so you have to bill big numbers. Sports Talk almost always over performs it's numbers but there is no way a .8 can outbill a 4.5 music station. And even if you gave that .8 an FM simulcast (not a translator) what happens? You have a valuable FM signal literally billing $0 because it is simulcasting an AM. The audience size will not increase by any substantial number. There are already several sports talkers and they have their listeners. My point is there are only so many sports talk listeners and adding more signals does not increase listeners, especially a simulcast.
For some reason some posters think Sports Talk is the only option for a poor signal...if no other format can get past a bad signal only sports talk will or for some unknown reason EMF will surely want a terrible signal even if they're well represented in the market. It's arm chair radio folks saying this and it's rather humorous because radio just doesn't work that way. That bad signal isn't a good one if you go sports talk and EMF is not in the habit of buying junk.
You have to remember a few things: FM signals are worth big bucks in major metros, so you have to bill big numbers. Sports Talk almost always over performs it's numbers but there is no way a .8 can outbill a 4.5 music station. And even if you gave that .8 an FM simulcast (not a translator) what happens? You have a valuable FM signal literally billing $0 because it is simulcasting an AM. The audience size will not increase by any substantial number. There are already several sports talkers and they have their listeners. My point is there are only so many sports talk listeners and adding more signals does not increase listeners, especially a simulcast.
For some reason some posters think Sports Talk is the only option for a poor signal...if no other format can get past a bad signal only sports talk will or for some unknown reason EMF will surely want a terrible signal even if they're well represented in the market. It's arm chair radio folks saying this and it's rather humorous because radio just doesn't work that way. That bad signal isn't a good one if you go sports talk and EMF is not in the habit of buying junk.
I suspect you are referring to my posts on the Houston board about KROI being sold to either iHeart or Audacy in order to move or simulcast their existing AM SportsTalkers. Okay, I’ll bite.
But those FMs have lost a lot of value in the past 20 years, down 75-90% in many cases.
No, but a 0.8 SportsTalker on FM can outbill a 0.8 FM music format.
You can also argue that the AM signal is billing $0 because it is simulcasting an FM, which is where all the audience will be. Note on my Houston postings I have advocated for an initial simulcast, then when the audience has been determined to have mostly gone over to the FM, drop the AM simulcast.
But placing the SportsTalk format on FM might prevent future ratings erosion as the AM audience ages out, or the AM signal vanishes into the noise level.
A move to FM might attract younger demos, as well as listeners unwilling to put up with the shortcomings of AM radio. I do think, however, that in most larger markets there is room for only two local SportsTalkers. Houston has three (two on AM, plus an FM with a horrible signal) which is likely too many for the market.
In the case of KROI, I am saying that it would be an improvement over the merry-go-round of failed formats the signal has had since Radio One purchased it in 2004. KROI desperately needs new ownership with a different perspective.
In the Houston market KROI would be an improvement for Air1 over eastern rimshot KHJK, especially in the growth areas of the western side of the market.
I’m sure there are radio pros who would advocate running nothing but infomercials and paid religion up and down the dial because “it brings in the money.” But who would your audience be? If that were to happen, pretty much everyone would gather up their radios and toss them in the trash dumpster.
No Mediafrog, I was not talking about you specifically but several on the site that advocate 1) turn it sports talk or 2) sell it to EMF.
Yes values of stations have fallen dramatically. 90% is right in the ballpark for some.
Yes a .8 in Sports Talk outbills .8 in a music format. It's more about billing. Let's say the AM has a .8 and let's pick a number, $3,000,000 as the value of the AM. Let's say the AM bills $2 million a year. When you simulcast it on FM you still have $2 million a year and a ,8. sure you might get a extra couple of tenths in new listeners but listeners don't just say it's on AM, I won't listen. If you want sports talk, you go where you find it. And that includes online.
Now, let's say KROI lost 90% of the value (based on the price they paid for the station). If the AM is a $3,000,000 value (because it has $2 million in billing), you bring that to a station worth 2-3 times of the AM. You simply are never going to monetize the FM to the point it even comes close to the value. The head office would never allow that. And, it seems EVERY format has not worked on 92.1. All news didn't work, etc. Why would only Sports Talk work? It's a bad Houston signal. If a Sports Talk listener won't go to AM for the static, they will put up with a lousy FM signal. Shall we look at the other lousy FM doing Sports Talk. And yes, the $2,000,000 is already there via the AM so what does the FM bring to the table? It needs to bring about another 4 or 5 million a year or some accountant in the main office is going to bring that to the attention of their boss who will ask why.
EMF is not just buying to buy. KROI might be better than what they have but what do they do with the old signal. They don't need both. Some folks seem to think EMF will buy anything anywhere anytime.
What a low blow, MediaFrog! That some radio pros advocate informercials and paid religion. I expect better of you. And I wish you had my job at one point when you're told "Here's the dollar amount we need each month and this amount for payroll. Now go find it. Payday is in 10 days". Radio is all about making money and maintaining the value of the asset. I started as a DJ and programmer before learning sales and then management. The art of radio is a presentation that draws listeners and a staff that can sell that audience to businesses. Hopefully those dollars turn a profit for your station. You may not believe this but those why have been in the chair where we had to find the money, we tend to be passionate about radio and love every aspect of the business. We're stuck in the position we are in and we need to keep our jobs. I'd love to play radio with enough cash on hand to not worry about the bills even if it's a LPFM.
I look at KTCK and KRLD and wonder just how much FM matters.
Yes values of stations have fallen dramatically. 90% is right in the ballpark for some.
Yes a .8 in Sports Talk outbills .8 in a music format. It's more about billing. Let's say the AM has a .8 and let's pick a number, $3,000,000 as the value of the AM. Let's say the AM bills $2 million a year. When you simulcast it on FM you still have $2 million a year and a ,8. sure you might get a extra couple of tenths in new listeners but listeners don't just say it's on AM, I won't listen. If you want sports talk, you go where you find it. And that includes online.
Now, let's say KROI lost 90% of the value (based on the price they paid for the station). If the AM is a $3,000,000 value (because it has $2 million in billing), you bring that to a station worth 2-3 times of the AM. You simply are never going to monetize the FM to the point it even comes close to the value. The head office would never allow that. And, it seems EVERY format has not worked on 92.1. All news didn't work, etc. Why would only Sports Talk work? It's a bad Houston signal. If a Sports Talk listener won't go to AM for the static, they will put up with a lousy FM signal. Shall we look at the other lousy FM doing Sports Talk. And yes, the $2,000,000 is already there via the AM so what does the FM bring to the table? It needs to bring about another 4 or 5 million a year or some accountant in the main office is going to bring that to the attention of their boss who will ask why.
EMF is not just buying to buy. KROI might be better than what they have but what do they do with the old signal. They don't need both. Some folks seem to think EMF will buy anything anywhere anytime.
What a low blow, MediaFrog! That some radio pros advocate informercials and paid religion. I expect better of you. And I wish you had my job at one point when you're told "Here's the dollar amount we need each month and this amount for payroll. Now go find it. Payday is in 10 days". Radio is all about making money and maintaining the value of the asset. I started as a DJ and programmer before learning sales and then management. The art of radio is a presentation that draws listeners and a staff that can sell that audience to businesses. Hopefully those dollars turn a profit for your station. You may not believe this but those why have been in the chair where we had to find the money, we tend to be passionate about radio and love every aspect of the business. We're stuck in the position we are in and we need to keep our jobs. I'd love to play radio with enough cash on hand to not worry about the bills even if it's a LPFM.
I look at KTCK and KRLD and wonder just how much FM matters.
I knew you would have some other data to explain what we're seeing. Thank you.
here's some fuel for the KEGL flip fire, The Treehouse isn't on the air today, in fact, no best of either, just music and there's speculation that the show might be done on KEGL as they removed the Station's name from their twitter and the Eagle's site removed their show from their site except for the schedule, as well as talk on the show's unofficial subreddit on Reddit.
Could just be replacing that particular show.
What happened to the overnight show on the Wolf? Is it still on the air? Usually they don’t have any songs that they play on the Wolf’s website until early early this morning
Yeah I've read the same things today.
As I said above, both talk shows are TALK LIGHT. For me personally, I love the idea of bringing back the old FM TALK that's geared toward men, but if you're going to do that, there has to be something that is actually GEARED TOWARDS MEN, especially on a HERITAGE rock station that was known for having balls. It's also insanely expensive. So is sports. I can't imagine that KEGL is going to pay even MORE to have talk shows that aren't effective, that further disrupt the format. If the CRACKHOUSE is over, I'd imagine they just hire some other voice tracker to do the same old, predictable crap.
As it is now, the sales staff isn't in the building and the programming staff is only in the building on Wednesdays. Fix a daypart with some voice trackin'! Yeah, that'll do it.
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