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Classic Country: The Next Endangered Format??

J

Joseph_Gallant

Guest
On Radio-Info.com over the last several weeks, especially after New York's WCBS-101.1 flipped from oldies to "Jack", there's been a lot of discussion as to whether the oldies format is about to vanish from American radio.

In country, there's (although in my "neck of the woods" near Boston, no one here has adopted it as a format) so-called "classic country", which I suspect is to country music what oldies is to rock-and-roll: a format probably playing (at the moment) a lot of music from the mid-1960's through the 1970's.

With oldies become an endangared species, I'd like to ask if you think that "classic country" might soon also be abandoned by many of the stations who now broadcast it.

Although not a big country fan myself, I suspect that were the "classic country" format to disappear, that pre-1990 country hits would vanish from the airwaves.

What do you think?? Is "classic country" about to become the victim of being "too old" demographically?? Is there any hope for the format??

Your views are welcomed, as always.
 
Like oldies, the main classic country satellite formats (Real Country, Classic Hit Country) focus on 1970's to current. There are a few small independent classic country stations that go earlier, such as WBZI in Zenia, Ohio (supposed to be streaming again soon). There are several FM classic country stations that started in the past few years that mainly are '80s' & up. WSM in Nashville still plays some older material, too.

Boston did have classic country with "Real Country" for a time on WKOX and evenings on WPLM-AM.
 
FYI: A thread very close to this subject discussed this topic not too long ago.

Here's the link to the start of that thread.

http://www.radio-info.com/mods/board?Post=396074&Board=country<P ID="signature">______________
"Be seeing you..."</P>
 
> On Radio-Info.com over the last several weeks, especially
> after New York's WCBS-101.1 flipped from oldies to "Jack",
> there's been a lot of discussion as to whether the oldies
> format is about to vanish from American radio.
>
> In country, there's (although in my "neck of the woods" near
> Boston, no one here has adopted it as a format) so-called
> "classic country", which I suspect is to country music what
> oldies is to rock-and-roll: a format probably playing (at
> the moment) a lot of music from the mid-1960's through the
> 1970's.

Actually, it's much broader than that. You'll hear tunes from the early 50s through the mid-90s, generally. Every one I've heard (WSM-AM, WZZK-AM, WCKS-AM, WKWH-AM, etc.) seems to keep the core in the 70s and 80s, with the best-loved earlier tunes and the more traditional later ones.

>
> With oldies become an endangared species, I'd like to ask if
> you think that "classic country" might soon also be
> abandoned by many of the stations who now broadcast it.
>
> Although not a big country fan myself, I suspect that were
> the "classic country" format to disappear, that pre-1990
> country hits would vanish from the airwaves.
>
> What do you think?? Is "classic country" about to become the
> victim of being "too old" demographically?? Is there any
> hope for the format??

I don't see it. Most of the classic country stations out there either have a considerable country heritage or are full-service hometown stations in areas where the music is popular, and are generally on AM. They're not as likely to change on the whim as oldies stations are.

The format may change focus, but it will continue.


>
> Your views are welcomed, as always.
>
 
> > In country, there's (although in my "neck of the woods"
> near
> > Boston, no one here has adopted it as a format) so-called
> > "classic country", which I suspect is to country music
> what
> > oldies is to rock-and-roll: a format probably playing (at
> > the moment) a lot of music from the mid-1960's through the
>
> > 1970's.
>
> Actually, it's much broader than that. You'll hear tunes
> from the early 50s through the mid-90s, generally. Every
> one I've heard (WSM-AM, WZZK-AM, WCKS-AM, WKWH-AM, etc.)
> seems to keep the core in the 70s and 80s, with the
> best-loved earlier tunes and the more traditional later
> ones.
>


I've seen two types..those that focus on 60s-80s and those who run it from the 50s- to either 10 years before or the year 2000.

Also depending upon the station, some run to death the hits that everyone knows, while others look for some that haven't gotten airplay in years. The narrowcast ones (tightly focused) I think will wind up loosing cause the audiences burn quicker on them (a few months and most of the playlist is already burnt on the listener), whereas stations like WSM and KWKH (two I listen to) are heritage stations that rotate their music and have listeners keep coming back due to a freshness and is not as aggressive as some country played today.

> >
> > With oldies become an endangared species, I'd like to ask
> if
> > you think that "classic country" might soon also be
> > abandoned by many of the stations who now broadcast it.
> >
> > Although not a big country fan myself, I suspect that were
>
> > the "classic country" format to disappear, that pre-1990
> > country hits would vanish from the airwaves.

I think the narrow cast ones will fail, but as was said, most are in traditionally favorable areas for classic country... If the stations die, the other local stations will still have classic country programs that will carry on the pre 1990's music.. The music won't "vanish" like the oldies format.. Plus most classic country stations play it smart and add newer music all the time..(usually the 10 or 5 year rule) most oldies stations try to end it 20+ years ago..nothing to intice new listeners in....





> >
> > What do you think?? Is "classic country" about to become
> the
> > victim of being "too old" demographically?? Is there any
> > hope for the format??
>
> I don't see it. Most of the classic country stations out
> there either have a considerable country heritage or are
> full-service hometown stations in areas where the music is
> popular, and are generally on AM. They're not as likely to
> change on the whim as oldies stations are.
>
> The format may change focus, but it will continue.
>
>


That and classic country fans are more of the traditional type country than today's 38yo housewife aimed country radio.

Classic Country stations sometimes see demos like classic rock stations usually... 25 YO and up will listen. The currently aimed holy grail (even though most listeners of the classic country is in the higher 40-54 range) BUT these are only in areas where country was popular when the music was out. Non traditional country markets will probably loose, but I think in traditional country listeneing areas, they will stay IMO....

RFLA
 
Classic country is different from oldies in the sense that people who listen to newer rock music won't usually listen to oldies, which is in fact the original rock music. Country music lovers however tend to enjoy their music on a much broader scale, appreciating everything from bluegrass and honky tonk to the polished sound coming out of Nashville today. Some contemporary country stations even mix in classic tracks, playing Patsy Cline back to back with Kenny Chesney. How many rock stations would get away with playing, say, The Beach Boys back to back with Red Hot Chili Peppers?

But one thing I don't understand is why classic country hasn't made a major move onto the FM dial in markets that are already country savvy. Most classic country is still being heard only on AM. But watch out because both Sirius and XM are doing it too.


> Like oldies, the main classic country satellite formats
> (Real Country, Classic Hit Country) focus on 1970's to
> current. There are a few small independent classic country
> stations that go earlier, such as WBZI in Zenia, Ohio
> (supposed to be streaming again soon). There are several FM
> classic country stations that started in the past few years
> that mainly are '80s' & up. WSM in Nashville still plays
> some older material, too.
>
> Boston did have classic country with "Real Country" for a
> time on WKOX and evenings on WPLM-AM.
>
 
Couldn't disagree more

> Classic country is different from oldies in the sense that
> people who listen to newer rock music won't usually listen
> to oldies, which is in fact the original rock music.
> Country music lovers however tend to enjoy their music on a
> much broader scale, appreciating everything from bluegrass
> and honky tonk to the polished sound coming out of Nashville
> today. Some contemporary country stations even mix in
> classic tracks, playing Patsy Cline back to back with Kenny
> Chesney. How many rock stations would get away with
> playing, say, The Beach Boys back to back with Red Hot Chili
> Peppers?

Listen to a active rock station, a classic rock station, an adult contemporary station, and adult alternative station, or a Jack, and you will hear more pre-90's music than currents. My wife listens to the country station and while not a fan, I know the music, and they don't play anything over ten years old.

The reason why classic country has only been an AM nitche format in rural markets is that country music for the most part doesn't age well. Think stale beer rather than fine wine. Country stations would never play Dolly Parton or Patsy Cline, the ONLY oldies that might get air play on our local country (top 50 market) are by active artists. Patty Loveless...gone, Holly Dunn...gone, never existed...

The BIG country stations are really Rural Top 40. And their listener, my wife fits the demo to a "T", likes the repetition and shallow playlist. She's always talking about so and so's new song. She'll buy the CD for the one song, but she will never play anything she bought let's say two years ago.

As a person with broad musical tastes, I love a new discovery, but tend to reach back for those timeless gems that country never seems to produce, or at least don't appeal to contemporary country listeners. Talk to a Program Director at a major market country station and I think they'll agree.

Similar situation with classic hip-hop, or classic heavy metal. Throw away music does not stand the test of time. Today's country is producing very little that will be of interest 10 years from now, and the real country classics of the fifties would, like oldies radio, be reaching an audience that advertisers have little interest in.

As for your comment about Beach Boys and Hot Chili Peppers, isn't that what the Jack format is all about???? Let's see how Hank does against WFMS in Indianapolis. My money says not even a dent...

So throw some rocks at me....

<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by radio-outsider on 07/01/05 02:57 PM.</FONT></P>
 
> Classic country is different from oldies in the sense that
> people who listen to newer rock music won't usually listen
> to oldies, which is in fact the original rock music.
> Country music lovers however tend to enjoy their music on a
> much broader scale, appreciating everything from bluegrass
> and honky tonk to the polished sound coming out of Nashville
> today.

Hmmm... I don't think you can typecast a "country music lover", and in fact today's country music listeners tend to be more closely compared to yesterday's "top forty" listeners. Ask the average listener about Buck Owens... Jim Reeves... Patsy Cline... Merle Haggard... Country Charlie Pride... etc. You'll get a lot of "Jim who?" "Merle who?" "Buck who?".
 
> Classic country is different from oldies in the sense that
> people who listen to newer rock music won't usually listen
> to oldies, which is in fact the original rock music.
> Country music lovers however tend to enjoy their music on a
> much broader scale, appreciating everything from bluegrass
> and honky tonk to the polished sound coming out of Nashville
> today. Some contemporary country stations even mix in
> classic tracks, playing Patsy Cline back to back with Kenny
> Chesney. How many rock stations would get away with
> playing, say, The Beach Boys back to back with Red Hot Chili
> Peppers?
>
> But one thing I don't understand is why classic country
> hasn't made a major move onto the FM dial in markets that
> are already country savvy. Most classic country is still
> being heard only on AM. But watch out because both Sirius
> and XM are doing it too.
>
>
> > Like oldies, the main classic country satellite formats
> > (Real Country, Classic Hit Country) focus on 1970's to
> > current. There are a few small independent classic
> country
> > stations that go earlier, such as WBZI in Zenia, Ohio
> > (supposed to be streaming again soon). There are several
> FM
> > classic country stations that started in the past few
> years
> > that mainly are '80s' & up. WSM in Nashville still plays
> > some older material, too.
> >
> > Boston did have classic country with "Real Country" for a
> > time on WKOX and evenings on WPLM-AM.
> >
>
we have country legends 107.3 which was a top 5 station. its still top 10 but its major problem is the tight playlist. it hasnt been updated in 2 years!!! but after 2 years its still top 10!! we also have northshore 104.7 classic country with a larger library. actually all the country stations here play some classic country. i am 36 and i love the format. i hope it stays around..<P ID="signature">______________
note to tvland...bring back wkrp!!!</P>
 
Re: Couldn't disagree more

> > Classic country is different from oldies in the sense that
>
> > people who listen to newer rock music won't usually listen
>
> > to oldies, which is in fact the original rock music.
> > Country music lovers however tend to enjoy their music on
> a
> > much broader scale, appreciating everything from bluegrass
>
> > and honky tonk to the polished sound coming out of
> Nashville
> > today. Some contemporary country stations even mix in
> > classic tracks, playing Patsy Cline back to back with
> Kenny
> > Chesney. How many rock stations would get away with
> > playing, say, The Beach Boys back to back with Red Hot
> Chili
> > Peppers?
>
> Listen to a active rock station, a classic rock station, an
> adult contemporary station, and adult alternative station,
> or a Jack, and you will hear more pre-90's music than
> currents. My wife listens to the country station and while
> not a fan, I know the music, and they don't play anything
> over ten years old.
>
> The reason why classic country has only been an AM nitche
> format in rural markets is that country music for the most
> part doesn't age well. Think stale beer rather than fine
> wine. Country stations would never play Dolly Parton or
> Patsy Cline, the ONLY oldies that might get air play on our
> local country (top 50 market) are by active artists. Patty
> Loveless...gone, Holly Dunn...gone, never existed...
>
> The BIG country stations are really Rural Top 40. And their
> listener, my wife fits the demo to a "T", likes the
> repetition and shallow playlist. She's always talking about
> so and so's new song. She'll buy the CD for the one song,
> but she will never play anything she bought let's say two
> years ago.
>
> As a person with broad musical tastes, I love a new
> discovery, but tend to reach back for those timeless gems
> that country never seems to produce, or at least don't
> appeal to contemporary country listeners. Talk to a Program
> Director at a major market country station and I think
> they'll agree.
>
> Similar situation with classic hip-hop, or classic heavy
> metal. Throw away music does not stand the test of time.
> Today's country is producing very little that will be of
> interest 10 years from now, and the real country classics of
> the fifties would, like oldies radio, be reaching an
> audience that advertisers have little interest in.
>
> As for your comment about Beach Boys and Hot Chili Peppers,
> isn't that what the Jack format is all about???? Let's see
> how Hank does against WFMS in Indianapolis. My money says
> not even a dent...
>
> So throw some rocks at me....
>
no rocks, but you are dead wrong!! if someone grew up on country and they are in their mid 20s-mid 40s they will listen to the format. 2 years ago i couldnt find any classic country on the radio. now there is some on every country station in this market. even the new country station..which owns the classic country station was playing waylon and willie last night!!! i am in baton rouge. and can pick up both new orleans and lafayette la markets. all the stations play at least some classic country.<P ID="signature">______________
note to tvland...bring back wkrp!!!</P>
 
Re: Couldn't disagree more

> >
> no rocks, but you are dead wrong!! if someone grew up on
> country and they are in their mid 20s-mid 40s they will
> listen to the format. 2 years ago i couldnt find any classic
> country on the radio. now there is some on every country
> station in this market. even the new country station..which
> owns the classic country station was playing waylon and
> willie last night!!! i am in baton rouge. and can pick up
> both new orleans and lafayette la markets. all the stations
> play at least some classic country.
>

But you're in the South.... Try finding anything "classic" on a big stick country outlet in a top 50 market. Some major markets have NO country stations, NYC & San Francisco for example.
 
Re: Couldn't disagree more

> > >
> > no rocks, but you are dead wrong!! if someone grew up on
> > country and they are in their mid 20s-mid 40s they will
> > listen to the format. 2 years ago i couldnt find any
> classic
> > country on the radio. now there is some on every country
> > station in this market. even the new country
> station..which
> > owns the classic country station was playing waylon and
> > willie last night!!! i am in baton rouge. and can pick up
> > both new orleans and lafayette la markets. all the
> stations
> > play at least some classic country.
> >
>
> But you're in the South.... Try finding anything "classic"
> on a big stick country outlet in a top 50 market. Some
> major markets have NO country stations, NYC & San Francisco
> for example.
>
ok..nashville..650 wsm.....country legends 97.1 houston tx.<P ID="signature">______________
note to tvland...bring back wkrp!!!</P>
 
Re: Couldn't disagree more

> > > >
> > > no rocks, but you are dead wrong!! if someone grew up on
>
> > > country and they are in their mid 20s-mid 40s they will
> > > listen to the format. 2 years ago i couldnt find any
> > classic
> > > country on the radio. now there is some on every country
>
> > > station in this market. even the new country
> > station..which
> > > owns the classic country station was playing waylon and
> > > willie last night!!! i am in baton rouge. and can pick
> up
> > > both new orleans and lafayette la markets. all the
> > stations
> > > play at least some classic country.
> > >
> >
> > But you're in the South.... Try finding anything
> "classic"
> > on a big stick country outlet in a top 50 market. Some
> > major markets have NO country stations, NYC & San
> Francisco
> > for example.
> >
> ok..nashville..650 wsm.....country legends 97.1 houston tx.
>


Another example of a Top 50 market classic country is WHOK/Columbus OH.

The Hank station in Indy, which is a country version of Jack, had a nice trend on Friday. Will we start to see more Hank's popping up?
 
Re: Couldn't disagree more

Yeah but how many major top 50 markets play mix? I bet a ton load more including New Orleans (no 46), Atlanta, Dallas and others...

In the south and midwest, people grew up on country and I find that most listeners do listen even to songs from 2 years ago... the country pop though doesn't age as well and does get played here, not as much as some of the more traditional stuff (the country pop can be found more on the a/c in recurrant rotation than country IMO in the south, Like Faith's "cry")

In the urbanized north and west, country is as was said rural top 40 and follows the same rules as top 40..that's why there ,most country is new with few recurrants (the 2 year old songs mentioned)

I'm in North Louisiana right now and all country stations not running a sat. fed country are running classics,recurrants and new country. Maybe that's why the Hank format to me is not as revolutionary to say people in Indy...

Hell the sat fed country services usually play 80s-today that are common to south and midwest small markets....

But for the record, Classic country can be heard in DFW and other major markets at night on AM (from WSM 650 Nashville and KWKH 1130 Shreveport)also..

RFLA
 
Re: Couldn't disagree more

Country music in all of its variations undoubtably reaches
different levels of appreciation in different parts of the
country. There are major urban markets in the midwest and
southwest where country music stations routinely outrate
urban formats. Across the heartland and throughout Appalachia
it's the dominant format. It's only in markets where country
music hasn't had an ongoing presence that traditional or "classic"
artists aren't often heard. Many stations do skew their music
mix to reach a certain type of audience or demographic. Some
stations may program a more traitional mix during certain
dayparts. Others may feature classic country in a two to four
hour weekend block. WKLB in Boston has an excellent classic
country program on Sunday mornings that includes the likes of
Marty Robbins and Kitty Wells, and this is in a city that went
without a country station for at least five years back in the 80's.
Obviously there's still a place for such a vast archive
of great music. Most stations don't dare to dig deep enough!

> Yeah but how many major top 50 markets play mix? I bet a ton
> load more including New Orleans (no 46), Atlanta, Dallas and
> others...
>
> In the south and midwest, people grew up on country and I
> find that most listeners do listen even to songs from 2
> years ago... the country pop though doesn't age as well and
> does get played here, not as much as some of the more
> traditional stuff (the country pop can be found more on the
> a/c in recurrant rotation than country IMO in the south,
> Like Faith's "cry")
>
> In the urbanized north and west, country is as was said
> rural top 40 and follows the same rules as top 40..that's
> why there ,most country is new with few recurrants (the 2
> year old songs mentioned)
>
> I'm in North Louisiana right now and all country stations
> not running a sat. fed country are running
> classics,recurrants and new country. Maybe that's why the
> Hank format to me is not as revolutionary to say people in
> Indy...
>
> Hell the sat fed country services usually play 80s-today
> that are common to south and midwest small markets....
>
> But for the record, Classic country can be heard in DFW and
> other major markets at night on AM (from WSM 650 Nashville
> and KWKH 1130 Shreveport)also..
>
> RFLA
>
 
> But one thing I don't understand is why classic country
> hasn't made a major move onto the FM dial in markets that
> are already country savvy. Most classic country is still
> being heard only on AM.

Houston has Cox Radio's KTHT - Country Legends 97.1<P ID="signature">______________
John Sells
Concord, NC</P>
 
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