Can someone tell me what the impediment is to doing away with cable TV boxes? At present, I have four TVs but only one box, which means most channels are off limits on three sets unless I rent a box for each. Is there a technical reason the technology can't be incorporated into every new TV, or is it solely the cable companies' business model? It reminds me of the old days when you rented your phones, and each one cost an additional charge.
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Cable TV boxes
- Thread starter listener-in
- Start date
Two words: incremental revenue.
DarkStarPDX said:
Yes, but is there any reason why TV manufacturers can't incorporate the box technology into their sets? Could the Time Warners or Comcasts of this world sue them, and if they did, would they succeed? I seem to remember there was a law suit to prevent video cassette recording, and we know what happened to that. (I know my question may be overtaken by technology as TV and online services increasingly merge.)
listener-in said:
Virtually all new TV sets have the ability to decode ATSC (digital) and NTSC (analog) signals - and some have QAM as well. So if the cable company's signal cannot be decoded by your TV set it is either not one of these signal types and most likely has been encrypted so only their set top box can unscramble the signal. Since there are many types of encryption algorithms in use it would be a PITA for manufacturers to try to include the technology in their TV sets. Not to mention that some of these are proprietary and not available to license.
The set top boxes give the cable company the ability to control the tiers available on your subscription and also the ability to cut off service remotely if payment isn't made (for instance). In the old analog days that required a service call and possible nasty interaction with the customer by the poor cable guy.
Consider that the set top box also functions as a pay per view authorization device and some even have games it would introduce a whole other level of complexity to TV manufacturers were they to try to emulate the various features.
The current generation of cable STBs are even more complex than that. Many cable systems now use "SDV" (switched digital video) to provide additional HD services within limited bandwidth. Instead of providing bandwidth for a channel 24/7 regardless of whether anyone's watching it or not, a box in an SDV system makes a request for a channel from the headend when a viewer tries to tune it in at the box. A QAM channel is then dynamically assigned at that subscriber's neighborhood node. So if nobody in your neighborhood is watching NBC Sports Channel or H2 or Cooking Channel or whatever, that service won't take up any bandwidth.
But that means you need a device at the subscriber end that can make the request to the cable company and dynamically map whatever channel is assigned...and even if you could put that in your TV today, what do you do five years from now when the cable company's moved on to whatever technology is next, but you've still got the same TV on your wall?
But that means you need a device at the subscriber end that can make the request to the cable company and dynamically map whatever channel is assigned...and even if you could put that in your TV today, what do you do five years from now when the cable company's moved on to whatever technology is next, but you've still got the same TV on your wall?
It has been years since I worked for a cable TV company but back then there were some attempts to have the TV manufacturers incorporate a slot wherein a module, furnished by the cable company, could be inserted to allow addressable and decoding functions to be controlled as the set top converters functioned. The reasoning was that the viewers could use their one remote and the company could retain the control of tiers and to turn off service for non pay. Actually we did not turn it off but rather they would be redirected to a channel with a message to contact the office. This would appear no matter what they selected with the remote.
However evolving technologies and manufacturer issues kind of killed that idea off. In truth that would have been better for all concerned as those set top boxes are not cheap. So now the boxes have won out as the prevailing means of tuning digital and analog as well as coded services. Once cable companies start eliminating analog channels as ours is beginning this year you will have no choice but to get a box or buy a TV with built in digital tuners. But if you want pay per view or premium channels (HBO for example) you will still need their box.
However evolving technologies and manufacturer issues kind of killed that idea off. In truth that would have been better for all concerned as those set top boxes are not cheap. So now the boxes have won out as the prevailing means of tuning digital and analog as well as coded services. Once cable companies start eliminating analog channels as ours is beginning this year you will have no choice but to get a box or buy a TV with built in digital tuners. But if you want pay per view or premium channels (HBO for example) you will still need their box.
nmoore6676 said:
Are these sets on the market right now? And would they enable access to free on-demand programming? I'm not interested in either premium channels or PPV that add to my monthly charge.
Thanks to all for the helpful info.
listener-in said:
There are tv's out there than decode Clear QAM (If the cable company is passing it not all have every digital channel in Clear QAM) however any type of on demand programming is not possible as its a one way signal. You also do not get a "guide" which a lot of people like.
xmusicmatt said:
A cable TV headend is like a bunch of mini TV transmitters in a room full of racks. Depending on how they receive, decode, and re-modulate the various signals determines how you will receive them at home. Way back in the early days when they only were meant to enable reception in distant areas and shadowed valleys they simply picked up over the air TV stations, amplified those signals and sent them out. Later when more channels were added with local origination they installed modulators to send out the channels and the individual modulators were locked to a master oscillator to eliminate intermodulation artifacts which would cause poor reception further down the line as the amplifiers were cascaded and amplified as well as generating such interferences.
Now there is no real standard for encoding the signals they send out and usually a system is purchased turnkey with the encoders and set top boxes all from a particular manufactures like Motorola. So it is difficult to produce a user owned type of converter or internal module to receive all that can possibly be sent out. Of course a side benefit is that this makes it very difficult for the "black box" sellers to provide converters to get you free premium channels and on demand programming.
Michael said:
You got a TV Tuner card that supports a "cable card"
http://cetoncorp.com/products/infinitv-4-pcie/
Ceton will release a new DVR this year called the Q which will support 6 streams from a multi-stream cable card.
http://cetoncorp.com/products/ceton_q/
The Q will have extenders call Echo http://cetoncorp.com/products/echo/
These new devices are win7 embedded boxes. I am looking for to these so I can shut my PC down when it's not doing anything.
Ceton will release a new DVR this year called the Q which will support 6 streams from a multi-stream cable card.
http://cetoncorp.com/products/ceton_q/
The Q will have extenders call Echo http://cetoncorp.com/products/echo/
These new devices are win7 embedded boxes. I am looking for to these so I can shut my PC down when it's not doing anything.
As cable companies turn off analog services over the next couple years they are going to try to make people believe that they need to rent a cable box in order to receive channels digitally. But the technology they use, QAM is already compatible with most newer TVs. The only problem is all channels except local channels are encrypted so a regular TV with direct coax will only be able to decode the locals in digital/HD.
Cable's biggest advantage over satellite since the early days was the fact that there is no set limit on the number of TVs you could use it on all for the same price a month. You just split the signal and used the TV's analog cable tuner. I understand the reasons for getting rid of analog as OTA TV has already and digital works quite well inside CATV systems saving bandwidth. If cable companies would just unencyrpt the same analog channels QAM feeds then I would have no problem with them killing analog cable. You could simply buy a 3rd party QAM converter box for older TVs. Instead the cable companies want to force everyone onto their terrible cable boxes which have slow and buggy software and cost money to rent every month.
Cable's biggest advantage over satellite since the early days was the fact that there is no set limit on the number of TVs you could use it on all for the same price a month. You just split the signal and used the TV's analog cable tuner. I understand the reasons for getting rid of analog as OTA TV has already and digital works quite well inside CATV systems saving bandwidth. If cable companies would just unencyrpt the same analog channels QAM feeds then I would have no problem with them killing analog cable. You could simply buy a 3rd party QAM converter box for older TVs. Instead the cable companies want to force everyone onto their terrible cable boxes which have slow and buggy software and cost money to rent every month.
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