Arbirton's HD audience numbers

[Chuck]

<snip> Each stream is a home run to a server and each takes up a slice of available bandwidth. When all the bandwidth is used, there is no more room for more clients, or the server has to add more bandwidth at a greater cost to the station. Because Internet broadcasting's cost model is bandwidth based, the cost goes up as the listener count does. For this reason streams are self limiting. They have to be or else they would drive the owners broke. This is also one reason why many stations have moved away from 'netcasting in recent years.

The bandwidth cost is insignificant compared to the royalties sent to Sound Exchange. At the moment, it is $0.0013 cents per listener, per song. It doesn't sound like much, but it really adds up if you have significant on-line listening. What's even worse is you have to do all the accounting. It isn't like ASCAP or BMI who simply send you a monthly bill As an over the air radio station that streams, you have the pleasure of figuring out how many people listened to each song and writing the appropriate check. Even with good reporting from your streaming provider, it is a real pain to figure out

If you don't have significant streaming numbers, there is no way you can charge anything for streaming. Sponsors won't pay for 30 people listening who are all outside of your market. I'm not sure where the breaking point is, but I know that I haven't found it yet. Until the royalty situation is resolved into something that is affordable and easy to administer, only large broadcasters or people running out of their bedroom closet will be heard streaming.

 

[local oscillator]

I just took a quick look at the public Arbitron ratings for all of the PPM markets. It appears that every single HD2/3 side-channel with ratings -- about a dozen or so -- is simulcast on an analog translator. Most are high-power/high-tower translators that have service areas approaching those of Class A's. So, let's see what we have here. HD2/3's with analog translators can get ratings -- some as high as mid-2 shares. HD2/3's without analog translators -- nada. Do the math . . .

 

[DavidEduardo]

Because Internet broadcasting's cost model is bandwidth based, the cost goes up as the listener count does. For this reason streams are self limiting. They have to be or else they would drive the owners broke. This is also one reason why many stations have moved away from 'netcasting in recent years.

As Chuck explained, the Intenet streaming model is mostly royalty based. Infrastructure is a minor issue by comparison.

Pandora does not limit the streams. And while they have a paid no-commercial option, most users take the version with commercials. Pandora is advertiser supported, just like terrestrial radio. And the more streams, the higher the rates they can set.

Pandora has opened sales offices in most of the major markets, and agency buying software now can rank Pandora next to local radio stations in each market. And they have what amounts to a 7 share on average in each market... that's millions of streams nationally.

 

[nd2023]

If all the HD2 stations have listeners from analog translators and Internet streams, what's the point of even broadcasting an HD signal?

 

[DavidEduardo]

If all the HD2 stations have listeners from analog translators and Internet streams, what's the point of even broadcasting an HD signal?

The existence of an HD "station" is what allows the translator to broadcast its programming. For profit in-market translators, if I read the regulations correctly, can only be used to rebroadcast something else licensed to the market. Another use of translators in this fashion is to fill in deficiencies of AMs.

 

[Kmagrill]

For profit in-market translators, if I read the regulations correctly, can only be used to rebroadcast something else licensed to the market.

No, out of market signals (including HD) can also be rebroadcast on non-fill-in translators, however fill-in translators have a big advantage in potential power and profitability over non-fill-in service. Non-fill-in translators have to be funded by 30 seconds per hour of commercials not paid for by the primary station. That means someone affiliated with the translator has to go out knocking on doors to drum up revenue. It's much easier to rent a translator to a station to be used as a fill in, if possible.

Non-fill-in translators must also receive their input signals (HD or analog) directly off the air, so there is a limit to how far a translator can be from the primary. However, translators can be legally daisy chaned. I've seen some stretching over 300 miles.

 

[diymedia]

If all the HD2 stations have listeners from analog translators and Internet streams, what's the point of even broadcasting an HD signal?

Some stations are installing HD explicitly to feed translators, and for no other reason. There's an ongoing thread over on the Engineering board explicitly about this (see "Small Budget HD").

 

[DavidEduardo]

No, out of market signals (including HD) can also be rebroadcast on non-fill-in translators, however fill-in translators have a big advantage in potential power and profitability over non-fill-in service.

The non-fill-in translators are not in the strictest sense "for profit" as the intent of the 30 second per hour "window" was to encourage translators in areas with limited radio service.

30" of commercial time per hour will barely cover costs in most cases, and in my view is not what constitutes "for profit" status. It's more like a form of underwriting.

 

[nd2023]

Why not just make translators into LPFMs, if they can be used to rebroadcast HD2s? That way, you take out the middleman since the HD2 serves no purpose other than as a loophole to launch a new station.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Why not just make translators into LPFMs, if they can be used to rebroadcast HD2s? That way, you take out the middleman since the HD2 serves no purpose other than as a loophole to launch a new station.

LPFMs are exclusively non-profit.

 

[landtuna]

Yeah. I'm sure that includes HD-capable car receivers which happen to have the HD chip. And most people drive around either (a) clueless that they have HD capability and/or (b) drive around with HD defeated to obviate reception problems, or both.

I'm not an advocate of HD radio but I am taking full advantage of HD signals in my market as they are the only ones who have the content that interests me.

It may be unique to the Phoenix market but the two HD2 signals I listen to have no drop-out issues.

I might also add that my 2012 car came with HD and wasn't an aftermarket or option. Most luxury cars are the same.

 

[Kmagrill]

[The non-fill-in translators are not in the strictest sense "for profit" as the intent of the 30 second per hour "window" was to encourage translators in areas with limited radio service.

30" of commercial time per hour will barely cover costs in most cases, and in my view is not what constitutes "for profit" status. It's more like a form of underwriting.

It can actually be fairly profitable. There are several small companies that make a nice living running non-fill-in translators. If they sell one 30 second spot for $10/ea and can do that for 10 hours a day, that's $100/day or about $3k/mo. Expenses are usually about half or less, so they each turn about $1,500/mo. If they own 30 of them, you're starting to look at some pretty reasonable numbers, maybe as much as $50k/mo.

 

[tomservo]

There's still a seed of belief in me that perhaps the HD-to-translator thing was sorta planned from the get-go when iBiquity realized how poorly digital hybrid works on FM in the vast majority of the country.

 

[Chuck]

Using HD-2 or small AM stations to feed a translator has essentially created a commercial LPFM service. It would be much more spectrum and cost efficient if the FCC allowed translators to originate local programming. The end result would more or less be the same, except HD wouldn't be needed and some under-performing AM's could sign off permanently, thus reducing interference issues.

 

[Kmagrill]

Using HD-2 or small AM stations to feed a translator has essentially created a commercial LPFM service. It would be much more spectrum and cost efficient if the FCC allowed translators to originate local programming.

That's exactly what the FCC did with TV translators/LPTV. One can convert to the other at will and they can also be either commercial or not. Unfortunately, the sensible folks at the FCC that came up with the TV solution weren't the same ones that worked on the current retrogressive FM policies.

 

[DaveBayArea]

It may be unique to the Phoenix market but the two HD2 signals I listen to have no drop-out issues.

It is not unique to the Phoenix market, but there are probably only a half-dozen large markets like Phoenix, where there are high-power FM's (100 KW ERP, high HAAT, and line-of-sight between transmitter and receiver). Denver comes to mind, along with some smaller flatland markets with 2000-ft towers. In multipath-ridden areas, especially those where the high-power stations are class B, it's a different story.

Add some adjacent-channel interference and HD is unreliable 6 miles from the transmitter.

Dave B.

 

[MarioMania]

I'm guessing the analog translators there talking about

Do people listen to stuff on the Radio??

Like when someone hears to favorite singer or the songs they like, they keep it on there station

when they hear they don't like, they tune to a diff station..don't don't hear anything they like..the radio goes off

 

[bossbill]

There's a bit more to it than that.