94.7

[DavidEduardo]

So useless.

I thought that we were supposed to get elves at Christmas time, not trolls.

Was there nothing more of a negative nature you could say about Imus today, so you just decided to growl generically?

 

[rjt45]

no, this exchange is useless as are most of the posts.

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

The thread DOES sort of read at times like the comments that follow the Power Ranking articles of college and NFL teams.
But I like it. It IS a throwback of sorts. Those Radio Discussion boards of maybe 10-15 years ago (especially the Philadelphia one) were a riot sometimes. I even filed away a few of the insults and digs and sarcasm for my own use.

* * * * * * *

Anyway: Nash-FM in NYC isn't going anywhere soon. At the end of the Cumulus revenue article .... past that part about the tattered WPLJ carpet being beaten on the washline .... is the note that Cumeless indeed has too much invested in Nash nationwide for them to send 947 packing

And if no new pop-music station in NYC has signed on to cherry pick at the demos of other music stations, well; that's because one is not there already. The reason that one isn't there is because it isn't needed. And the reason it isn't needed is because it doesn't exist.
(EMail me, anyone interested, and I'll relay articles that prove both the chicken and the egg evolved around the same time).

But despite all this free advice about 94.7, perhaps it'd be more topical to speculate on what 955 might do in reaction to its tragic state of perceived squalor. After all, it *is* the season. Nationwide, new ink-jet devices are being bought for layoffs and format changes.

 

[TheBigA]

perhaps it'd be more topical to speculate on what 955 might do in reaction to its tragic state of perceived squalor.

I think it's in the process of evolving, no? It's been a year-long process, but changes have been noted.

But I agree with what you say about Nash. It's not changing formats any time soon.

 

[DOB]

Jammin Oldies was picking the rhythmic hits from an older era when rhythmic music was not nearly as mass appeal as it was 20 years later. Looking at the one in New York City, what did they offer that was so special? At that time all their strongest songs were played already on cbs-fm, jammin was not newer than cbs-fm was, it was an classic r-n-b hits format that was really just a slice of cbs-fm at the time and you also had 2 full signal urban acs as well. It had no chance at longevity. Besides it was well past due for hot 97 to get a competitor.

The format I'm describing is newer than cbs-fm is right now, it's hotter and takes advantage of the songs that are too much for lite-fm and that are no longer heard on ktu. It would be much more mass appeal than jammin ever was. The problem with my format is what they are doing with plj right now. With plj playing a good amount of 90s mass appeal pop rhythmic songs the two stations would be far too close to each other, that is why it is not viable. I had not listened to plj in a good while, someone on the other board mentioned they were playing no diggity and that inspired me to sample them.

So the answer here is for plj to expand upon what they are doing now. Their fear of rhythmic music is finally a thing of the past it seems so for them to pick say 1985 and form a playlist that is very gold heavy playing all the best New York hits from the last 30 years, but also being extremely choosy about the new songs they play, they should let the others warm them up, play them when they peak, and confine those new songs to only the strongest, no secondary currents and recurrents along with that mass appeal gold library and plj could be a 4 share station with top 5 adult female demos.

Just to add, mornings are going to be a tuff go. Elvis runs a pretty much flawless morning show and has for years, that morning show is a part of these females lives, from when they were middle school/college to now, they have always woke up at 1003 and they have no reason not to. Plj should let Jade own the show, maybe surround her with other good opinionated gals and make it a ladies room type morning show, maybe that could gain some traction.

.....and yet I will continue not to add the decimal points as a favor for a 'corporate wide-receiver' who otherwise if I didn't exclude the point, he wouldn't have any valid 'point' to make. His kind don't like me, I've been proving them wrong for over 10 years. This year it was with Omi, the in/con sultant said I can bet my life that song will never be a hit in this country when I had my pd friend make him listen to the song back in late January. Those USA chrs didn't wake up on that one till June, and as I called it and the consultant was totally clueless on, it is one of the biggest songs of the year. It's easy to know the Taylor Swifts and Adeles, but beyond the obvious these consultants are very out of touch with the tastes of the target audience their stations are trying to reach. Funny, lots of them now are just starting to wake up to 21 pilots, stressed out should already be top 10 at chr. Almost as funny as their inability to hear hits, is some of the songs they think will be hits. At least most of them are smart enough to confine their mistakes to the over nights, evenings, and weekends, they program by fear for good reason as they can't take chances because those will almost always be the wrong choices. Now to be fair, there are some very very excellent consultants in this country, but those guys have the right attitude, they listen to everyone and don't shut down like a 4 year old and throw a temper-tantrum when someone says something different from the industry echo chamber of staleness blah.

 

[Shredder]

Just to add, mornings are going to be a tuff go. Elvis runs a pretty much flawless morning show and has for years, that morning show is a part of these females lives, from when they were middle school/college to now, they have always woke up at 1003 and they have no reason not to. Plj should let Jade own the show, maybe surround her with other good opinionated gals and make it a ladies room type morning show, maybe that could gain some traction.

Scott and todd where also a big part of peoples lives. don't sell 'em short just cause they wheren't most peoples cup of tea. I actually felt kind of betrayed when I learned todd was, if not the main reason, a big reason on why the show broke up. you think you know people ;o).
don't worry. most people think it'll be jades show soon...my guess is next january. it sounds much better when todd isn't there. even sarcastic monk sounds better when it's just him and the girls....although I seriously doubt he'd stay if his bread and butter mama todd is gone.

as for music, I lifted my plj ban from last year and tune in every now and then. hearing the 80s stuff along the current stuff just doesn't mix well. hearing the 60s stuff mixed in with 80s stuff works better on CBS(but not when the only 60s stuff you hear is just beatles stuff, they need to expand beyond the same old tired 80s songs.). it doesn't work at all on PLJ. makes 'em seem like hypocrites for getting rid of the old guy who liked older music. Get rid of everything before 2005 and just play modern hits. they need to decide what they are now if they want to survive.

fun fact. i've never listened to Z100 once. the only time I did was when I was forced to driving in other peoples cars, and I didn't care for it. especially those horrendously fake phone taps (sound even faker than the plj ones!)

 

[K.M. Richards]

.....and yet I will continue not to add the decimal points as a favor for a 'corporate wide-receiver' who otherwise if I didn't exclude the point, he wouldn't have any valid 'point' to make. His kind don't like me, I've been proving them wrong for over 10 years.

Never said it was a "favor". Did say that it is conventional syntax to include the decimal point when referring to a station's frequency in discussion. (Yes, I know stations don't say "point". When referring to same in discussion, I will often include a "dash" where the point would have been, i.e. "95-5" to make it clear that the on-air reference is "ninety five five" and not "nine fifty five", since not everyone knows everything like you think you do.)

What I "don't like" is someone who swoops in, pontificates at length about his vision, then in taking offense to the objection, makes more novel-length posts which say much the same thing. Feel free to prove me wrong. I learn far more from others' successes than I do from my own.

Right now, though, there is no proof to be made by you. Unless Cumulus hires you to consult (and I know for a fact that they won't, because they don't use outside consultants for programming) all you have is your opinions. They are interesting opinions, even if much of them aren't going to be viable -- see David's critique -- but they are only that.

As far as I am concerned, the air is cleared, unless there is still some kind of cloud hanging over your head that I missed.

 

[DavidEduardo]

J Now to be fair, there are some very very excellent consultants in this country, but those guys have the right attitude, they listen to everyone and don't shut down like a 4 year old and throw a temper-tantrum when someone says something different from the industry echo chamber of staleness blah.

You have a totally whack idea of what a consultant does.

One of the many things that a good programming consultant does not do is go over every new music release and micromanage the weekly music changes at stations. Consultants look at the bigger picture, including strategy and overall sound. The local staff takes care of the day to day music issues including adds, drops and rotations.

Although not a "consultant" action, we see how programming songs adds and moves in a centralized manner brings poor results, as the recent shake-up at cumulus indicates.

On the other hand, a number of the companies with more than one or two stations in a format have formal or informal "exchanges" between them to insure that everyone is aware of the successes and failures in music, promotion, talent, imaging, etc. around an enterprise.

 

[K.M. Richards]

I'd like to add to David's explanation that consultants whose stations are gold-based rather than current-based can be involved in library music changes, because those take place less often than will changes to current rotations and inclusions.

A gold-based consultant (which is what I happen to be, so please do not include me in your widely cast net of "consultants who can't hear a new hit coming") will be more involved with the research for the library, making recommendations as to when titles need to be rested, what titles can be put into rotation to replace those that are resting, which titles that tested well in the past are slipping, etc. And it is not uncommon, in consulting a gold-based station, to send lists of songs to the clients of the above recommendations ... but the station management still makes the decision as to what airs ... not the consultant. You sound as if you believe that when a consultant is hired, the station owners hand him the keys and turn over complete control. That's, as David puts it, "totally whack" and 180° out of phase with what actually happens.

Consultants do get involved with the overall sound of a station -- imaging, hot clocks, jock critiques, etc. -- especially at current-based stations. But, except at stations programming 100% non-currents, they are never going to come close to being a replacement for the PD. (At gold-based stations, sometimes they do become "quasi-PDs", answering directly to the GM, because of the lack of need for someone to locally program the currents, but that's not what we're talking about with WPLJ, WHTZ, etc.)

One advantage consultants have is the ability to bring ideas that work from other stations they consult. They also tend to have a much broader set of contacts in the industry to bounce ideas off of. The one thing they do not do -- which you appear to, based on what you have written here* -- is stay so focused on a single market that they lose touch with what's going on elsewhere.

*-Stations you have mentioned in your posts as examples, right or wrong: WPLJ, WLTW (Lite 106.7), WCBS-FM, WKTU, WBLS, WHTZ (Z100), and WQHT (Hot 97). You mentioned WOGL in Philadelphia once, then went right back to being NYC-centric.

 

[DavidEduardo]

I'd like to add to David's explanation that consultants whose stations are gold-based rather than current-based can be involved in library music changes, because those take place less often than will changes to current rotations and inclusions.

That is a valuable clarification. The adult hits and gold based formats I have been a consultant or adviser for in recent years have used a collaborative approach to the library. Those involved in programming meet and specify the target of the station, the general range of music in style and years, the acceptable exceptions and then build a list of songs. That list is tested with the target using respondents who like the general type of music we play or plan to play. Then the results are tabulated, and the group makes the decisions on cut-off points, acceptable blemishes, and even rotations.

At no point have I "told" the station what to do. We make the decisions as a group, with the folks who have their boots on the ground in the local market having the last word.

And doing research has not always meant spending $30 k and up on a formal AMT. In one "rescue mission" project in a top 15 market, I knew the music was off because the FM was the lowest rated in the market. But we were short of time and money, so we recruited a dozen or so contest winners to "come back on Saturday and rate some songs". We had beer, soft drinks, sandwiches and stuff and played hooks of the library and several hundred other songs. They voted with a thumb up, thumb down or thumb to the side. We tabulated the total positives, negs and neutrals and redid the list. We worked with the talent and imaging, too. Next book, from last to #1 and we held that position for some time... and of course, did "real" music tests when the revenue increased. But all the work was done locally with the local staff having the deciding vote.

With current based stations, I've been part of music meetings but my function is always to play the devil's advocate, asking if we are shifting our blend too much in one way or another, playing too many songs by one artist in currents, or asking about MScore analysis and call out interpretation as well as moves by similar stations in comparable markets. I've never forced a song on a station, and don't think that happens much anymore at successful stations.

Of course, going back to the Drake era, we did have consultants play a bigger part of the music decision process but that is because the RKO station conversions were done as a team effort with the understanding that Drake himself was going to be co-programmer in effect.

Every situation is a bit different. So trying to generalize is dangerous... and that is what DOA is doing.