Any Word on a New Alternative Format?

When 94-5 The Edge flipped in the early 2000s, how long did it take for 102-1 to come along and pick up the moniker?

94.5 and 102.1 essentially just swapped formats with 94.5 directing listeners to 102.1 after 94.5 was sold to Radio One. 102.1 was running Magic or Jammin or something like that, that format basically went to 94.5. (Kind of)

It's extremely unlikely for anyone in Dallas to pickup the format now, its dead here and dying nearly everywhere else. That being said, maybe one of our many crap-tastic low performance rimshot FM stations could grab it if they wanted.

It's still going strong in Houston.

I don't think alternative is dead at all. In fact, some markets who have launched an alternative format recently has never had this kind of format before (i.e. San Antonio and Corpus Christi to name a few). In some cases, some markets have two alternative formats (i.e Salt Lake City, Los Angeles, Kansas City, Atlanta). Dallas has been known to have a strong alternative audience, which is why the "Edge" name was so well-known and why KXT was station of the year this year.

If there was a station that should pick up the alternative format, I believe it should be KLIF-FM. Cumulus has some pretty decent alternative stations and 93.3 is more of a dead "Kiss FM" clone with 106.1 and 102.9 dominating and 103.7 not too far behind.

I could see 93.3 running with it, wouldn't be the first time and now with the competition gone they might actually stand a chance.
For awhile the it seemed as if the Alternative Rock format was dropping like flies across the nation, good to see that is no longer the case. Dallas has long been a rockers market, seeing the Edge fall makes me question the formats viability just a smidge.
Are the other ARs running what the Edge was doing? How are their ratings and billing?

My biggest beef with most Alternative/Modern Rock formatted stations is the lack of Current/Recurrent focus. I think that is one thing that is killing the format. Don't get me wrong, there is new music in there, but it seems secondary to the gold tracks that most often appear.

leethalweapon said:

My biggest beef with most Alternative/Modern Rock formatted stations is the lack of Current/Recurrent focus. I think that is one thing that is killing the format. Don't get me wrong, there is new music in there, but it seems secondary to the gold tracks that most often appear.

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Actually it's one of the things keeping the format alive, because most of the new bands simply don't have the level of stardom or name recognition that the older groups have. There seems to be a more narrowed focus among current groups to be more responsive to their smaller fan bases, rather than grow to be the size of a Pearl Jam or Smashing Pumpkins. To make a radio format work, you need a large number of consensus artists, and there aren't enough current groups with enough hits to fill a 24/7 station.

The Rimshot said:

It's still going strong in Houston.

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No pun intended, but there is no real "alternative" for 94.5 The Buzz in Houston. You can either go with the Classic Rock station, or you tolerate various forms of female-targeted CHR/AC. But the Buzz pretty much has the rock market to itself.

Maybe so, but how many (now) mainstream artist's actually got their start on the Alternative format before spreading their wings? I look at a station like WEQX in Albany (New York), very heavy on new artist's/music. It's interesting that a lot of artist's that are Alt staples get little or no airplay outside of specialty programs. I know, it's a business, but if you look at the make up of the audience, I would guess that this group is most accepting of new artists. Add to this, the current trend is very pop friendly, so there is huge potential for crossover of current crop of artists.

I drove through Dallas/Arlington, and I listened to KXT, and yeah, it was a great listening experience. I'm happy.

I don't feel like DFW needs a new "Edge," "Buzz," or "Surge."

With the exception of a few unique stations here in there, true alternative is doesn't really exist. Yes, you have stations like Alt 98.9 in LA or Radio 105.7 in Atlanta but these stations are largely focused on 90s and active/alternative cross-overs. The only true alternative stations out there that are not independent would be The Buzz out of Kansas City owned by Entercom.

The Edge is not what it use to be, especially after the corporate sounds of IheartRadio took over. I'll be honest, the Buzz (Houston not Kansas City) is nothing to run home about either.

I've always praised 105.7 The Point in St. Louis as the best possible approach. During the day, they lean active with lots of 90s. You will hear the harder 90s and early 2k stuff like Three Days Grace, Manson and Korn. At night, the station focuses more in the alternative direction hitting currents hard and breaking new music. This tends to be the newer music of the alternative variety vs active.

They also bring concerts that range anywhere from Slipknot to Band of Horses. Their facebook page use to get a lot of hate but at the end of the day, the station is positioned to lean in both active and alternative, depending on time of day and frankly, what is working across all rock stations. The station has the active and alternative space blocked. For example, recently, iheart launched an alternative station in St. Louis. It sounds like all the other iheart alt stations with the same 100 songs being played over and over. The Point kicks their a$$ because The Points playlist includes lots of deeper cuts both 90s alternative, harder rock and new stuff.

Cumulus Alternative stations are a little better to me than Ihearts but generally speaking, iheart radio's alternative stations are Alt 40, meaning, it's the chart toppers on the alt charts and true alternative folks have went elsewhere. Personally, I listen to three different outlets: Alt Nation, WEQX, and The Buzz out of Kansas City. I'm not 100% sure on this but Active Rock doesn't appear to be doing well at all.

I always thought, "Why isn't the Alt-Rock format getting the same market attention now that the Classic Rock formats got in 1993?"

The answer is: Gen X'ers, Y'ers and Millennials listen to music via their smartphone in the car and Pandora/Spotify at home/work. They do not listen to terrestrial radio on a consistent enough basis to get that 100 KW blowtorch to pick them up.

The audience is there, just not on a terrestrial basis.

The Rimshot said:

The audience is there, just not on a terrestrial basis.

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Only for that particular format. They seem quite content with the pop, urban, and country they get on OTA radio. In very big numbers.

From what I see, more of it has to do with the music than the audience.

TheBigA said:

Only for that particular format. They seem quite content with the pop, urban, and country they get on OTA radio. In very big numbers.

From what I see, more of it has to do with the music than the audience.

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Do you have any real numbers to back that opinion up?

KTBZ in Houston, for example, does extremely well in Houston compared to any format that fits the age demographic of 25-44.

The music just isn't as popular as it used to be, CHR still pulls in the young listeners no problem. Looking at 6+ (which is damn near worthless I know) KRBE has nearly double the cume as KTBZ, with KODA completely blowing it out of the water.
When KDGE was blown up it had a lousy 2.1 rating, the flip to Christmas music shot it all the way up to Number 1 with a 7.7, only time will tell now if the AC format does better. (It Should, The Edge had been doing poorly for years by this point). Hell the NPR station consistently beat The Edge.

I could be wrong, but I'd think by now ALT and AC should have about the same age demos.
Then again, I've always considered ALT's hayday to be the 90s and early 2000s. I assumed the genre had started to die sometime after 2005.

It seems the Alternative format is struggling. It appears the format has splintered to a few sub-formats that are not on the same page together. The acts releasing material today are having trouble bridging the gaps, so to speak. The natural evolution has left radio trying to find a path to the numbers they need to make the format viable. This is not to say there are not unique situations where an Alternative station thrives but generally speaking reaching a level of consensus without playing the wrong song in the mix to destroy the Time Spent Listening numbers has become increasing more difficult leading many stations to play more 'basic library' material that enjoyed consensus rather than newer material that might alienate a part of the market.

It seems Alternative is about where Top 40 found itself by the time 1990 rolled around. The once mass appeal top 40 struggled with what to add and what not to play in order to have a mix of material that would produce the numbers they could live with. Sub-formats flourished. Now it appears CHR might have found a fairly sweet spot but it is certainly not anywhere close to the level of consensus the format enjoyed in earlier decades. The same happened to the old MOR and Beautiful Music stations, on a different level, in that they found the music could not be bridged to attract both the core listener and younger demos they needed. Many tried but most found they wound up turning both the core demo and younger demos away. That itself brought about 'Lite Rock' and the uptick in Adult Contemporary, which itself was an attempt to position a top 40 station to a more adult based format versus youth based.

DavidEduardo said:

Established Alternative stations that are well over a decade into the format are doing well, but newer entries just do not seem to be able to build coalitions of listeners.

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As Gen X'ers and Y'ers, and even Millennials get older, I expect to see ratings improve.

Good point about the established alt-rock stations doing well, but the newer entries are also starting to take off. KBAR and KYRK are good examples.

The Rimshot said:

Do you have any real numbers to back that opinion up?

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What part of my post are you asking about?

The Rimshot said:

KTBZ in Houston, for example, does extremely well in Houston compared to any format that fits the age demographic of 25-44.

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I thought you said "the audience isn't there on a terrestrial basis." Which is it?