The Misguided Allure of Deep Tracks

DavidEduardo said:

Seldom does a week go by that Radio Discussions does not have a number of posts about short playlists, too much research, not enough play of "oh wow" songs.

Jon Coleman, one of the best researchers our industry has known, wrote a blog piece on this subject this week.

Here is the link: https://colemaninsights.com/coleman-insights-blog/the-misguided-allure-of-deep-tracks

Everyone who things that the station they listen to should expand its playlist should at least read this piece. It's based on Jon's many, many decades of researching and talking to our listeners.

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Yes I know what you are talking about! Then you hear as in the article people ranting and complaining about why a deep tracks/AAA format outlet is not doing songs the way they want it to be. One is the Yacht and the other is Deep Tracks. Also in the article there was the question over what is the right balance to keep or expand the audience for that venue.

The Article itself reminds me of what I seen here on radio discussions some guy whines about a radio station not airing 60's and 70's songs on WABC-AM most notably. The answer ends up being about that today's PD's has to fight over who is leftover on FM to maximize their audiences and how that PD and GM keeps their station relevant when they have to contend with Spotify, and other podcast outlets are going to kill them off.

Here is another point I like to add the people who complain about this topic in past threads are doing this for two reasons one these people may not use youtube or internet radio to find the playlists they like and two they miss the era when WABC-AM, KFRC-AM, KHJ-AM and WLS-AM were the biggest Top 40/CHR/ Hot AC stations in the USA. Or when Rick Dees was at KIIS-FM Los Angeles. Audio Broadcasting has shifted in the past 15 years to favor SiriusXM, and app radio outlets due to how the median audience chooses these venues over AM and FM radio.

People want what they want. They'll give you all kinds of reasons why. They don't care about studies, demographics, or profits. None of it matters. They want what they want, they want it now, and they want it for free. Nothing else matters.

RadioPatrol said:

Audio Broadcasting has shifted in the past 15 years to favor SiriusXM

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Maybe 30 million listeners in a nation of about 300 million, and it's taken 15 years (actually 18) to do it, and growth has plateaued. Some shift.

RadioPatrol said:

Audio Broadcasting has shifted in the past 15 years to favor SiriusXM

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It really hasn't. I read the exact same complaints about the playlists at SiriusXM. No playlist, no matter how large, is ever large enough.

If the number of songs is the issue, just change the station to another format, and you get another list of songs. But that's not the issue.

Again, people want what they want, they want it now, and they want it for free.

TheBigA said:

It really hasn't. I read the exact same complaints about the playlists at SiriusXM. No playlist, no matter how large, is ever large enough.

If the number of songs is the issue, just change the station to another format, and you get another list of songs. But that's not the issue.

Again, people want what they want, they want it now, and they want it for free.

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True and there are youtube playlists to consider too but in Youtube's case the audience size of a specific song is seen immediately (Top Artists get at least a billion viewers and niche artists get a thousand or million viewers). But in Youtube's case its where they got TV Viewers away from MTV and VH1 to Vevo and Youtube with some deals with the labels and its easier to get any deep track the way you want it.

for Live 365, Spotify, Iheart, Tunein, radio.com, accuradio, 8tracks, radionomy the listener size may vary by feed though.

DavidEduardo said:

One interesting thing about YouTube is its adaptive software. If I start with a couple of 60's and 70's songs by artists from Spain, it will then continue automatically giving those to me. But if I insert manually a couple of Colombian cumbias and vallenatos from the very same era, it begins playing more of the same. And if I do a couple of Fleetwood Mac songs, I suddenly see the stack full of rock songs from that era. And this can go on for a long time, meaning I can seed a playlist and it will keep on giving me that "format" until I tire of it. It's a lot better at predicting based on a wide variety of seed songs than any of the other services I have used or currently have.
.

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And that's the biggest problem with YouTube, Spotify etc. predictive software. You like this, you get more of this. Computers still have a hard time predicting what variety a listener really wants. Human curated playlists are better in my opinion. If deep variety is desired by the listener, there are any number of internet only stations likely giving their music away or running on a largely donation basis.

"Deep Tracks" at broadcast is about like running six minute long commercial sets. Neither seems like a good way to keep the average listener delighted in a given station.

joebtsflk1 said:

Neither seems like a good way to keep the average listener delighted in a given station.

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A bad song gets a stronger negative reaction than a 6 minute break.

TheBigA said:

People want what they want. They'll give you all kinds of reasons why. They don't care about studies, demographics, or profits. None of it matters. They want what they want, they want it now, and they want it for free. Nothing else matters.

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Well said, my friend. That entire comment applies to more than just radio. I have various businesses aside from playing (or attempting to play) radio. Applies to almost every business in America. People will buy "off brands" if they trust the company offering them. And 90% of those "off brands" are actually house brands created to enhance the bottom line because of Amazon and so many give aways on name brands. I have a friend who owns a soda store for tourists. He offers 500 different bottles of wild and weird flavored sodas. They are cool to look at and almost all have a nostalgic approach to marketing. For two years he resisted selling Coca-Cola and Pepsi. Finally, another friend of mine, a market manager with Coca-Cola, mentioned his frustration with that soda store. I told him to take 50 free cases of Coca-Cola products over there on a small truck. Offer to GIVE them to him and pick up what's not sold in a week. He did it and low and behold, and a little pushing of my friend to try it, his business is huge, but 70% of his sales are Coca-Cola products. He can't keep the shelves full. It's a sad truth. People love to LOOK at the unknown products. They even buy a bottle here and there, but the money is coming from 1/20th of his shelf space (well, coolers) devoted to the tried and true. Play the hits and reap the benefits. Same applies to the sad fact that deep cuts don't deeply move the needle.

TheBigA said:

A bad song gets a stronger negative reaction than a 6 minute break.

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Wouldn't have guessed that. Bad songs are even worse than mediocre ads! Tuning inertia is still a thing, then, for the average listener.

But for me, 6 minute breaks chased me away from the radio altogether. No one cares, I've aged out of all of the money demos.

joebtsflk1 said:

But for me, 6 minute breaks chased me away from the radio altogether.

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Of course, as you probably know there are hundreds of radio stations in this country that are non-commercial.

And because of that, they are also more likely to have a broader view of music policies.

TheBigA said:

Of course, as you probably know there are hundreds of radio stations in this country that are non-commercial.
And because of that, they are also more likely to have a broader view of music policies.

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I think I've mentioned this before, but if you want deep tracks and new music curated by (mostly) humans, go to:

https://spinitron.com/

The page shows "recent spins" from all of the participating radio stations. Wait for something to come up you think you'd like to hear. Then navigate to that station's stream and start listening. I've found many new artists and a few favorite new stations this way. If you really like what you hear, consider supporting that non-comm station. As BigA says, the stations are out there. They're just not commercially viable and they exist on listener support.

Dave B.

Thanks, Dave. Very cool.

DaveBayArea said:

As BigA says, the stations are out there. They're just not commercially viable and they exist on listener support

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And there's nothing wrong with either model. The commercial model is obviously working well in the face of a lot of heavy competition from other places, and the same with the non-commercial model. My point is people shouldn't expect deep cuts from the commercial model, or try to say that we will be more successful by playing deep cuts, because it's simply not true.

joebtsflk1 said:

But for me, 6 minute breaks chased me away from the radio altogether. No one cares, I've aged out of all of the money demos.

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Long stop sets are a tune out. And so are bad songs. But for me, hearing someone after another blabber about products I could care less about is a station changer. And when I mean bad songs, I'm referring to genres I have zero interest in or songs I've heard 30 times in 60 days! Most "bad" songs the industry shuns are "oh wow's" for me and I stay interested.

DavidEduardo said:

But listeners have no expectation of hearing a bad song. If they are in the car or conventient to the radio device, they switch audio sources. Whether it is a preset in a car radio or saying "Alexa, play KOOL-FM" you can easily avoid the torture of hearing "You Light Up My Life" or "Honey" if they are played.

By your comments it is easy to tell that you can not possibly be the target of any radio station on the planet because you do not have behavior that is mirrored by a larger segment of the population. Thus, the term "outlier" can be applied. And eliminating outliers from any research project is fundamental to its success.

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Yes, you told me that three years ago. I fit perfectly in KSUR's demos though and 88.3 in Lima, Peru. I assume there are more stations like that.......on earth.

Torture?? Come on......The songs are around a half-century old. Hearing modern rap is torture.

oldies76 said:

Hearing modern rap is torture.

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For you, but a lot more people want to hear modern rap than 70s pop.