In the heyday, there were actual smooth jazz artists who created inventive new music for the format. Kenny G, Dave Gruisin, Bob James, Grover Washington, and many more. But then they just started making the same music over and over, and the solos got longer and more meandering, and the new songs just sounded like the old songs, because they were in the same key, in the same tempo, and used the same instrumental effects. Does Kenny G ever use anything other than a soprano sax? Did Bob James ever use a piano other than a Fender Rhodes? They weren't always the same songs...they just sounded like they were. The high point for me was Anita Baker. Then it went downhill.
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July Ratings
- Thread starter DMK
- Start date
In the heyday, there were actual smooth jazz artists who created inventive new music for the format. Kenny G, Dave Gruisin, Bob James, Grover Washington, and many more. But then they just started making the same music over and over, and the solos got longer and more meandering, and the new songs just sounded like the old songs, because they were in the same key, in the same tempo, and used the same instrumental effects. Does Kenny G ever use anything other than a soprano sax? Did Bob James ever use a piano other than a Fender Rhodes? They weren't always the same songs...they just sounded like they were. The high point for me was Anita Baker. Then it went downhill.
G
Goi
Guest
Uh Hey Dave - Yeah - I said that already but thanks for making my point AGAIN! Go back and re-read the thread.
"Put out a missing persons report anybody seen Fitz? Hubbard didn't want to sign him. 98.9 is the Black Hole of frequencies in Seattle. People in the market have certain expectations of radio. They expect Sports on 710 and 950 - They expect classic rock on 102.5 - They expect stale crusty old white lady music on Warm and on 98.9 they expect NOTHING - because it has been a shit show for so long. It's been one thing after another. Don't even go Smooth Jazz on me because that won't fly - the format died because not enough people wanted it and let's be honest some just got old and died off. 98.9 has been the equivalent of the one store in the local strip mall that can NEVER make a go of it. They open up with the best intentions but because everyone in the community knows THAT location has a history of transitory activity it won't last long and is a come and go businesses.
Historically 98.9 has never been a strong signal as far a station having success. It's the Bermuda Triangle of radio - formats and talent who go there disappear."
G
Goi
Guest
Yeah well it should I have worked in radio for 35 years so ya think.... You really give listeners no credit - wow -SAD. See because when I am out on the streets talking to clients, listeners at remotes, concerts, events boy they SURE do know what their station is. They know the dial position and they know more than you give them credit for which again is pretty sad you underestimate the listening audience... BTW it doesn't matter when it flipped it was already dead to begin with and flushing that stale turd down the drain was the smartest move that has been made at 98.9 - Again my point is until MASSIVE amounts of money are spent to change the perception 98.9 will always languish in obscurity and continue to flail around at the bottom of heap. People know INCONSISTANCY and that is what 98.9 has been for SO damn long. AND THAT is what people notice. So yeah I think insider because I am an insider. One that has a solid track record of success and kicking your ass in the ratings. Cheers!
Now days they call it: Direct Mail, which isn't cheap due to postage costs. Call Letter TV uses DM quite a bit around sweeps in what we called 'Hot Zips', or geographic areas we believed would have more sampling. Yours is a good example how postcards can work for radio too.
Uh Hey Dave - Yeah - I said that already but thanks for making my point AGAIN! Go back and re-read the thread.
"Put out a missing persons report anybody seen Fitz? Hubbard didn't want to sign him. 98.9 is the Black Hole of frequencies in Seattle. People in the market have certain expectations of radio. They expect Sports on 710 and 950 - They expect classic rock on 102.5 - They expect stale crusty old white lady music on Warm and on 98.9 they expect NOTHING - because it has been a shit show for so long. It's been one thing after another. Don't even go Smooth Jazz on me because that won't fly - the format died because not enough people wanted it and let's be honest some just got old and died off. 98.9 has been the equivalent of the one store in the local strip mall that can NEVER make a go of it. They open up with the best intentions but because everyone in the community knows THAT location has a history of transitory activity it won't last long and is a come and go businesses.
Historically 98.9 has never been a strong signal as far a station having success. It's the Bermuda Triangle of radio - formats and talent who go there disappear."
My point is that there still were just as many people cuming the SJ staitons (and in the PPM, actually, a few more), but the TSL collapsed under electronic measurement resulting in lower shares.
The aging had been going on since the turn of the century, so that was nothing new.
Bongwater
Walk of Fame Participant
Uh Hey Dave - Yeah - I said that already but thanks for making my point AGAIN! Go back and re-read the thread.
"Put out a missing persons report anybody seen Fitz? Hubbard didn't want to sign him. 98.9 is the Black Hole of frequencies in Seattle. People in the market have certain expectations of radio. They expect Sports on 710 and 950 - They expect classic rock on 102.5 - They expect stale crusty old white lady music on Warm and on 98.9 they expect NOTHING - because it has been a shit show for so long. It's been one thing after another. Don't even go Smooth Jazz on me because that won't fly - the format died because not enough people wanted it and let's be honest some just got old and died off. 98.9 has been the equivalent of the one store in the local strip mall that can NEVER make a go of it. They open up with the best intentions but because everyone in the community knows THAT location has a history of transitory activity it won't last long and is a come and go businesses.
Historically 98.9 has never been a strong signal as far a station having success. It's the Bermuda Triangle of radio - formats and talent who go there disappear."
Once again, there are no cursed frequencies. Maybe cursed moniker/brands, such as "Mix" (three Seattle stations tried that and failed), but no cursed frequencies.
And new radio station formats, especially nowadays, take much longer to develop with every other electronic distraction out there. And unless you're playing Christmas music on 106.9 MHz every December, you're just not gonna win 'em all.
By the way, 106.9 was once considered a hopeless frequency too. They, as KWWA/KHIT/KNUA/KKNW-FM/early KRWM languished at the bottom of the heap until 1994 when K-Lite 95.7 gave up the ghost. Then they started creeping up, though never seeing an actual #1 until early 2002 after their first year with the Holiday format. And they've been in the Top 5 ever since.
As for the stale crusty old white lady music on 106.9, just so you know, any stale crusty old white lady with a walker and "California Gurls" or "Uptown Funk" at full blast in her Bluetooth wireless headphones is a DANGEROUS stale crusty old white lady. The kind that go skydiving on their 85th birthdays. The kind you never want to run into on poker night at the senior center because she'll take you to the cleaners.
It's also been a while since I last heard "Don't Cry Out Loud" on KRWM.
seattlesarchiebunker
Leading Participant
That makes me think, on a slight aside, that the Oasis is the only Smooth Jazz station in a top 100 market that has seemed to make it work for awhile.
Besides 102.9 here and ABQ, I cannot think of another currently running commercial smooth jazz station in a top 100 market. Actually, I only know of one other commercial station running the format in any sized market.
Does anyone know of any others?
Wasn't Warm mostly held back by KLSY until they became sister stations and the latter backed out of the format?
That's about right, although K-Lite (KLTX 95.7) started messing around with Smooth Jazz, which didn't take long to lose their foothold as Light AC leader. The backstory is: They hired a new GM for KJR and KLTX who had zero radio experience other than a successful track record in radio ad sales for the Sonics. Anyway, she personally preferred Smooth Jazz and started tinkering with K-Lite by insisting on SJ in the evenings. When the existing PD, who was very analytical when it came to music research and positioning warned the new GM that adding SJ would be disastrous, she canned him. The evening jock was named PD and added SJ to the evening line up as "City Lites" (gag). The following few months I remember sitting in management meetings hearing the GM predict that eventually SJ would be the next thing and that we need to get ahead of it. According to her, Lite AC was dead. For a short time before Bob Case flipped KLTX to KJR-FM (Classic Hits), K-Lite was 100% SJ, and KRWM (K-Worm), wormed their way into the Lite AC leader.
I know, every market has similar examples, but this has to go down as one of the top, worst programming decisions in Seattle Radio history.
Number two (that I was involved with), was when our corporate PD in Seattle was tinkering with the format on WAXY in Miami and the station promptly went from first to the absolute bottom in one book. When doing my first walk through after purchasing the station, the GM warned me not to let the corporate office tinker with the format or even the audio processing or risk facing certain doom. Guess he was right!
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Speaking of KLSY, how were their ratings compared to Warm in the book before they went Mix? To me as an eight year old, I always thought they were the better of the two. Interesting little factoid, it was KLSY I was listening to when I heard what happened on 9/11/01. I stuck with Mix until about July of 2003, as I didn't think the changes were that dramatic, ev if I was annoyed with the new name.
Bongwater
Walk of Fame Participant
I remember that "K-Warm" (REALLY?) moniker. And the "Worm 107/K-Worm" nicknames. I don't remember "City Lites" being 24/7 on K-Lite, But I do remember it starting at 9pm, then 7pm, then 5pm and finally 3 PM until midnight. At that point, I began to think they lost their minds. But it seemed like everyone else in radio lost theirs too (1994 was a helluva year.) So when that "The Northwest's New 95.7" transition to KJR-FM came, it felt like somebody finally noticed what was going on in the FM studio. Or accidentally discovered it along the way as they were remodeling 190 Queen Anne to bring KUBE into it.
But I guess also partly because Lite AC itself was in a bind back then. There were not many new Lite AC worthy hits in a sea of grunge, grunge-wannabe and hip-hop and hip-hop wannabe (whatever happened to "Lucas With The Lid Off" anyway?) in 1994. And no matter how hard the labels tried, getting "No Excuses" Alice In Chains and "Come As You Are" Nirvana on Adult Contemporary radio wasn't going to be a very easy thing. Even in Seattle.
Except for Michael Bolton (ack!), Celine, Bonnie and a few others, Madonna, Elton, Cher, Gloria, Phil - the former '70s-'80s CHR megastars were forced over to AC in the schizophrenic grunge/hip-hop waves of whatever was supposedly CHR at that time. And KLTX always had more recent material while KRWM at the time was almost pure "Yacht Rock" (Google it.)
Rob Piotrowski
Star Participant
So what? Two different cities, two different psychographics.
I'm thinking that the previous post was in response to this one.
There is one in Panama City, FL, which I think is a sort of rimshot. It survives.
KOAZ in ABQ is 31st in 25-54 and bills less than $20 k a month.
The one in Cleveland, really an AC, manages to be in the top 15 in 25-54, so it is surviving. It's also about 15th in billing.
CTListener
Walk of Fame Participant
WEIB, Northampton, Mass. (Springfield market)
Yeah, I've noticed that about The Oasis. Very niche but they get a lot of support from the local community and Santa Fe. Wednesday nights they always have a preview party at a Greek restaurant in ABQ (Mykono's), and people do come to listen to new music and rank them. And they've kept a majority of their staff all these years, too.
The New Chico
Leading Participant
New Smooth Jazz just popped up recently in Atlanta- http://www.smoothjazzatl.com/
Apparently they didn't get the memo: Smooth Jazz= Low Ratings
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