iamarussianpirate
Frequent Participant
KKNW isn't a rated station so how do you know they are pulling .0's? Either you have access to a different set of Nielsen data than I do, or you're making stuff up.
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KXXO takes on big, BAD Hubbard Radio!
- Thread starter Rob Piotrowski
- Start date
KKNW isn't a rated station so how do you know they are pulling .0's? Either you have access to a different set of Nielsen data than I do, or you're making stuff up.
That assumption is based on the fact that KKNW never shows up in the ratings we always discuss on these boards. That being said, with the subscriber only policy that was introduced a few years ago, it could very well be that they simply don't subscribe. That being said, unless I know for certain otherwise, I assume every station in a particular cluster and market subscribes. I used to assume that any large company had a group deal for all of its stations, but I notice Townsquare stations are absent from a few markets, mainly Bizmarck and Sioux Falls.
They do subscribe, but they do not show up as they apparently do not meet minimum reporting standards.
Stations in a cluster may not be individually subscribed. There are limitations on data use.
Many groups with stations in smaller, less transactional markets, don't subscribe... or they use Eastlan instead.
It is a subscriber. It gets a 0.0 as it does not meet MRS.
Bongwater
Walk of Fame Participant
Like I said, KKNW's rent-a-station format realistically would be better served by their web stream than a tiny translator on an already locally occupied frequency that doesn't make it out of Bellevue. The options look a lot better and more versatile (video streams, secondary web-only streams) and less of a bureaucratic and promotional headache for utterly pointless results.
Rob Piotrowski
Star Participant
Jeezus, you guys turn EVERYTHING into a pi$$ing match. Even over the definition of "0.0". Pathetic.
No "pissing contest". Just a statement of facts. That station gets a 0.0 and did not meet the minimum reporting standards.
Funny...I hear the same thing said by college administrators when they sell their FM signal, moving their student station to the internet. In the process, they go from one of a few dozen stations to one of hundreds of millions. And then wonder why no one knows they even exist. Buy hey! Look at all the money they saved.
Bongwater
Walk of Fame Participant
Does anyone outside of Hubbard, the KKNW program producers and this board even know KKNW exists? We're talking about a FM translator with at best. coverage of Factoria and not much more. And with KXXO, it's like coming to a flamethrower duel with wet matches.
If Nielson would reverse the policy they have of only showing subscribers publicly and KKNW stull didn't show up, we wouldn't be debating about KKNW's low ratings. Re: KKNW's existence, I suspect there are a few people in the general population that know of KKNW's existence, but not many. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a number of people who have lived here for years that remember 1150 as KAYO, and may wonder from time to time when they can't sleep what the station is doing now, but never check it out.
CTListener
Walk of Fame Participant
Why should Nielsen (note correct spelling) give away its product for nothing? Its subscribers are paying it to collect data on listening. Its nonsubscribers aren't. The subscribers need the numbers for the nonsubscribers to put their stations' performance in perspective, so those numbers are included in the reports they get -- the reports they PAY FOR. But the nonsubscribers are owed nothing, and that's what they get.
My guess is that's why they withdrew their application.
While your points are completely valid, why was it only less than 10 years ago that then Arbitron decided to stop publishing non-subscriber 6+ numbers? I was on these bords when the Saga stations, which had appeared at the bottom of the ratings, suddenly disappeared, though I wasn't looking at them myself. I remember reading somewhere that there were several Cumulus stations which didn't subscribe but were always at or near the top of the ratings in their respective markets. Cumulus subscribes now, so that's not an issue but I remember the discussions about it back then.
Seems to coincide with the arrival of PPM, which was a much more expensive method of audience measurement.
CarAgencyGuy
Frequent Participant
KKNW sells brokered time. The individuals or businesses that buy that time would not continue to purchase it unless it produced enough return on their investment to justify ontinued purchase. The ONLY way it can produce that ROI is to have ENOUGH RESPONSIVE LISTENERS to purchase whatever is being promoted. Therefore, no matter what the 'ratings' show or don't show, they MUST have listeners - because if they didn't the model would not work and advertisers wouldn't continue to purchase the airtime.
Ratings are an intermediary tool media buyers like myself use to 'guess' on the size, composition and other characteristics of a audience we are looking to purchase. We do this 'hoping' that when we run ads that we will get enough response to generate ROI.
Results are the desired end result in both cases. If you can prove results without ratings, then ratings are irrelevant and you don't care what they are because you don't need them.
I hope this puts an end to the KKNW 'ratings' discussion.
Ratings are an intermediary tool media buyers like myself use to 'guess' on the size, composition and other characteristics of a audience we are looking to purchase. We do this 'hoping' that when we run ads that we will get enough response to generate ROI.
Results are the desired end result in both cases. If you can prove results without ratings, then ratings are irrelevant and you don't care what they are because you don't need them.
I hope this puts an end to the KKNW 'ratings' discussion.
I agree. The one other thing we've discussed with regards to other stations is the need for marketing. Most popular stations do marketing for their brand. This station doesn't. KKNW doesn't have a team of people driving a branded SUV going out to shopping centers, handing out swag with the call letters. You don't see billboards or TV commercials for KKNW, do you? There is no process that drives audience to this station. Those who listen are often accidental. They're scanning looking for interesting topics to listen to. I'm sure even with a translator, this station wouldn't experience a huge major change in its ratings situation. The programming isn't really designed for that. It's designed to get you interested in the product, and hopefully buy something. Clearly the shelf life for AM radio is getting shorter, and the only solution appears to be FM translators. Perhaps with an FM translator, this station might have been able to change its format to something other than brokered time. We'll never know.
Bongwater
Walk of Fame Participant
The promotion of brokered programming is on the person/business airing the program. This usually means they already have an inside, ready listener base of some kind for whatever they're running. And hoping anyone else will casually tune in and find something.
But if you ask the everyday local proletariat what KKNW was, they would probably stare at you blankly while cautiously stepping back and running away.
So in a way, KKNW exists in a realm unlike it's sisters at Hubbard.
But if you ask the everyday local proletariat what KKNW was, they would probably stare at you blankly while cautiously stepping back and running away.
So in a way, KKNW exists in a realm unlike it's sisters at Hubbard.
Sort of doubt that. Warm has been around for like 20 years? Does the average listener remember call letters beyond two or three?
Bongwater
Walk of Fame Participant
It goes back to the KAYO comment earlier. I remember KAYO too. But I and most other people haven't woken up in a cold sweat over it either. The public record seems to indicate that as well.
The only vaguely plausible way this kind of scenario can possibly happen is if the person (a HUGE local radio fan) has just awoken out of a 30 year coma. And even in this unlikely scenario, he/she will be so overwhelmed by the world that has emerged since 1988 ("....and do you still remember Donald Trump? Well adjust the bed and brace yourself, I have even more bad news..."), they won't even thinking about radio. Let alone old call letters.
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