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Thread: Holy cow, KROQ...

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by macattack View Post
    Maybe the problem is the music itself. Indie rock, in various forms, has formed the foundation of alternative stations, but it's always been accompanied by another genre or two. New wave during the 80's, grunge in the 90's, pop-punk and nu-metal at the turn of the millennium (and big beat for a brief period), etc. But none have clashed so flagrantly with indie rock as the current indie pop/alternative pop movement, which often doesn't even superficially sound like rock music. You can't segue from an Offspring recurrent to, say, AJR or SHAED with any grace, and the more rhythmic sound of alt/indie-pop has to be a turnoff for rock listeners. At the same time, fans of the more rhythmic alt/indie-pop sound have to be sick of hearing Soundgarden or The White Stripes inbetween their favorite songs. .
    There is nothing wrong with the current state of new music going into the format. I think there is definitely an audience for the current music going into the format. Today's Alt audience has a broader taste and is more open to different genres that make up the format. The problem arises when companies like Cumulus/Entercom/iHeart face up to commercial realities of finding a salable audience. This means skewing older, which means a reliance on burnt out gold tracks.
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  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by leethalweapon View Post
    This means skewing older, which means a reliance on burnt out gold tracks.
    I'm not sure that's the reason. The older audience considers them burnt. It's the millennials who say they sound fresh and new. The reason stations play them is because they're consensus songs that get a reaction. You can't build a commercial format around unknown songs by unknown artists.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigA View Post
    You don't think Cumulus & iHeart battle each other pretty hard for country share? Or Cumulus vs. Cromwell for sports?

    What I keep hearing is how the local ad market is shrinking compared to 30 years ago. That's where the problem is.
    Depends on what you call a "battle." If you mean remodeling the Music Row iHeart studios, then yes. It took 'em half year. They look empty, btw. But all out knock down wars like the old remote territory dispute days? Not so much. I think they all gently position themselves "away" from each other, knowing that no country station is going away and tuck their heads down and sell the best way they can. Do you see any gorilla marketing or decisive tactics to hurt the competition? (They may be there, mind you BigA, I don't have time to focus on what they do.) As for talent, I have friends that work at those stations. The only "war of words" battle that I have heard of is WSIX's Bobby Bones going on the air to POLITELY call out the morning team at WSM-FM for saying bad things about his ability and how it hurt him. I respect Bobby x a million. I don't even know the name of the female morning host on WSM that said negative comments. That is not a good ole fashioned on air barb. That's unrefined talent that has not been around long enough to totally understand the industry. Does that make sense? You may be right, I am just thinking about it as I type. What battles do you see or hear?

    On this board, we can compare Cromwell and Cumulus in a sentence. But, you cannot really do that on the ground and in the trenches. Cromwell is small potatoes with no budget and mostly local ads and a few salespeople who go at it day after day. Cumulus swims in a different ocean. To be honest, my guess is Bud Walters probably lost a few years of his life stressing over the overhead of the sports format, but is too nice to just yank it and replace with an auto-pilot format that will bring in 1/2 the revenue, but probably MAKE himself more money. I believe that to be the Truth 100%. He has been moving away from programming his stations and I wonder if and when he finally takes a final bow and retires.

    I am not sure that local ad revenue has declined in Nashville. The city has grown so much that my guess is the local ad "revenues" are actually UP rather dramatically. But the smart businesses have found other forms of less costly ways to market than radio. I see the problem here being that radio is not capturing "our" fair share of the advertising revenues from all the potential businesses, because, radio still tries to sell radio like it has for decades. (You and I have discussed my out-of-the-box thinking and strategy on that.) So, would it make sense that the local ad market is strong, bit the success of radio getting the dollars is the problem? I think TV is in even worse shape. I may be wrong, so again, I am just going from what I see happening on a daily basis.

  4. #34
    [QUOTE=. Buyers were fools to pay those prices. So you might say things are back to normal now.[/QUOTE]

    Now wait minute. Buyers were fools? LOL. No doubt. But, they were calculated fools, who thought they were untouchable. "Build it at all costs and we will figure out how to pay for it later." The main buyers (corporations we all love to bash today - funny my spell check put in "Nash" when I typed "bash" ) that paid the insane multiples were the very same people who sat there and saw what the ad revenue HAD to BECOME to just pay the bills. I dealt with a bit of the insanity because they bought a station from me in 1997 at a price so high that it still would not have generated enough sales to just pay for the price of the stick, excluding interest and time.) I am not sure that even the "fair" prices being paid today are still proper and on track or normal when one considers the decline of the industry over the next decade. In fact, I think smart CEO's are looking at EMF and others as their last chance to jump off the train before it leaves the tracks. I have always thought that the word "multiple" was a word for "we just got screwed." The old saying about the most important price in a business is what you pay for the business or cost of the goods. Just because someone says it's worth 15 times "x" doesn't mean it really is. EMF may well generate $5M a year from WPLJ. So it will pay for itself in a decade. Then again, maybe things change and they sell the station to one of us for $10M and are happy they got out of that station. Was $50M a good and fair price?

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Tibbs4 View Post
    Depends on what you call a "battle." What battles do you see or hear?
    Let's bring the conversation back to LA, since that's the board we're on. I see lots of battles, and they're fought every day. Just a few years ago, there was the battle over morning DJ Big Boy, who was hired away from Emmis by iHeart. That was not a pleasant situation. That kind of battle over talent might bring to mind the battles CBS & NBC fought back in the 1930s. There are battles companies fight over clients. You may not read about them in public, but they happen. You may pine for the good old days when small stations fought over ratings. But these days, the battles involve billion dollar corporations with lots of lawyers, and most of the battles happen in court rooms, not on the air. So while not as romantic as they once were, they still happen.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Boy_(radio_host)

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tibbs4 View Post
    I am not sure that local ad revenue has declined in Nashville. The city has grown so much that my guess is the local ad "revenues" are actually UP rather dramatically. But the smart businesses have found other forms of less costly ways to market than radio. I see the problem here being that radio is not capturing "our" fair share of the advertising revenues from all the potential businesses, because, radio still tries to sell radio like it has for decades. (You and I have discussed my out-of-the-box thinking and strategy on that.) So, would it make sense that the local ad market is strong, bit the success of radio getting the dollars is the problem? I think TV is in even worse shape. I may be wrong, so again, I am just going from what I see happening on a daily basis.
    The radio revenue is projected to grow at a rate of -0.6% per year over the next 5 years. It has been off about 0.8% annually over last five years.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by leethalweapon View Post
    There is nothing wrong with the current state of new music going into the format. I think there is definitely an audience for the current music going into the format. Today's Alt audience has a broader taste and is more open to different genres that make up the format. The problem arises when companies like Cumulus/Entercom/iHeart face up to commercial realities of finding a salable audience. This means skewing older, which means a reliance on burnt out gold tracks.
    There is more than that in LA. Older tracks appeal to the only segment of the LA audience that is interested in alternative.

    In 18-34, the market is approaching two-thirds Hispanic. Add in Asian, African American and others who have a heritage where alternative has no impact and you have a very small younger core that is interested in music discovery.

    While there are some members of the different ethnic communities that like alternative, as a percentage they are much, much, much fewer than non-Hispanic whites. Alternative has had very little success in Latin America, while some of the now classic rock artists tour regularly and some have had record ticket sales.

    And if a track gets good like and love scores among the older potential listeners, it is not burnt out. A song is not burnt out based on the number of plays over time; a song is burnt when a majority of listeners say they dislike it and are tired of it.
    Last edited by DavidEduardo; 06-13-2019 at 03:03 AM.
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  8. #38
    Big A, I was speaking to your comments specifically. Fair enough. Sure, companies fight. Look at the situation with the old Clear Channel/iHeart entertainment. Some say it was/is a monopoly. Lock in the popular acts, promote the shows and watch the competition squirm every time they play a top rated song from the very act that will soon be on YOUR stage. Talent is another topic for sure. When there were a dozen owners in a radio market, talent wars were much more obvious. When the big guys bought a handful of stations in the market, you at least settled down the competition and brought it under the same roof. In fact, as you have heard with the demise of PLJ, and other stations, the complaint was the corps absorbed stations and killed of once competitive stations to build up the station they wanted to be the powerhouse biller. I would say the chances of Dave Stewart or Jim Kerr being on a competitor's dying station twenty years ago would be slim. I think the corporate mandates, national playlists and creation of a nearly uniform sound nationwide simmered down the fights and people are competitive, but they have to tow the corporate lines of professionalism. I cannot speak to the big battles over clients, but you are right there. Then again, when you have only three or four big players in a market, the buys are going to come your way when you have a total package wrapped in the cluster. I don't pine for the old days. They are Not coming back. Honestly, this talk of more regulation scares me for the industry. You may recall, I caught a bit of flack for suggesting the hourly ID's needed to drop down two several times per day. Nostalgia doesn't pay a lot of bills. Usually.
    Last edited by Tibbs4; 06-13-2019 at 03:07 AM.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidEduardo View Post


    The radio revenue is projected to grow at a rate of -0.6% per year over the next 5 years. It has been off about 0.8% annually over last five years.
    So over a decade, you are saying radio's down by 7%. Not small change, but considering all the sources of entertainment that have come along, I would say that is "almost" growth for radio. I have dealt with businesses that have seen 20-50% of their revenue taken away literally overnight with governmental changes. You get an expanding city like Nashville, then you have little or no decline. That's pretty good news for radio.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Tibbs4 View Post
    Then again, when you have only three or four big players in a market, the buys are going to come your way when you have a total package wrapped in the cluster.
    Which is why I say the only person who defines your business is you. Is it the radio business, built around towers and transmitters, or the audio business built around creating and distributing audio content on multiple platforms? It's up to you to define it. So if the towers & transmitters business is stagnant, my suggestion is to diversify. Seek out new revenue streams using the talents and resources you already have. If that means redirecting resources from regulated media to unregulated media, then that's what it means. We can all walk and chew gum at the same time.

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