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Thread: Why Does Cumulus Prefer Indianapolis Over New York?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Connoisseur already owns Hot A/C WEZN, Star 99.9, in the Bridgeport area. I wonder whether their sound is sufficiently different from A/C WEBE 108 that both stations will be able to continue without significant changes.
    Connoisseur (I hate trying to spell that one) has CT synergies that can be employed in sales. It's a good strategic move for them, as is going to higher market revenue Allentown is for Cumulus.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigA View Post
    You think it's just broadcasting? I run a business. We all try to be optimistic about our business. No one planed for the Titanic sinking. No one. When it happened, everyone pointed fingers. The trials and lawsuits went on for years.

    Lots of investors lost money in 2008. Heck I lost money in two failed radio investments in 2008. Yes even I missed the signs of market change. Now I learn every day. Fortunately I also profited on other companies that boomed. That made up for the losses. That's how the big investment companies survive. Diversification.

    But the tech industry destroyed a lot of businesses, from brick & mortar retail to radio to newspapers to the recording industry. Now the ducks are about to come home to roost. Congress is looking at regulating tech. Some politicians are demanding breakups of the big companies. Shades of Standard Oil at the turn of the last century. We'll see who profits on the next big thing. We may be in the last days of the bull market. Will we see the signs of market change? You tell me.

    I actually think you and I are on the same page, BigA. Like you, I own various businesses and some are broadcasting-related, but most are not. My approach has been that no matter what business it is, that the "customer" is what matters. In my retail businesses, you have to provide the right products and best service. Especially when you cannot "compete" on price. That is always a no win, heartless battle. In radio it's the best music (etc.) and on-air sound. Of course, given your signal strength and competition, it's how you drive revenues. So the business models are actually very similar. I guess one of my better business abilities is being able to see changes down the road. In fact, three years ago, my primary business had a major regulatory change that should have taken almost 30-50% of our business away. That happened to 99% of my competitors. Our team took a different approach and we have grown by 50% per year. Never lost a beat. It was a blend of take no no's, hard work, 24/7 drive and even a bit of optimism. Planning was the key. Paying attention to details and having multiple visions of paths as we saw the positive responses on what worked was an absolute. Additionally we simply did not take "no" for an answer. I guess, like you, pointing fingers and needless legal stupidity just is not part of my business equation. That helped hurt radio for sure. A literal inside hack job. You just keep moving forward. Not that I have done everything perfect. You know some (hell, many) of my missteps. I do think radio, in particular, grew too fast, companies bought signals at insanely stupid multiples to just get a bunch of sticks and then they dead panned the sound and bored listeners away and drove advertisers elsewhere. The major corps all played follow the leader right down the tubes. But, it has continued to happen for too long. That, to me, is N O T acceptable and not smart business and these clown$ ALL knew exactly what was happening. Yes, certainly we all miss and missed market changes. No one is perfect, but what has happened for decades now is more than a miss. No one has really changed the way radio presents itself in decades. But, all of US know what in most important to keeping radio ALIVE. A heart, a soul, a sense of connectedness to the listeners, smarter presentations, less concern for the damn flawed rating system that has also strangled the industry, calling ad agencies out on their utter walk away from the obvious demographics, our own lack of creativity and better marketing, use of old school advertising rules like seven minute SS and of course all the help from our friends at the FCC for managing to clutter up all the local FM dials with static, weak signals and a sound similar to that of AM radio on Germany in the 1940s. The ducks have cooked all of us, already. Look what Amazon and Walmart have done to local ad revenues. But, until each of us sells our business(es) in whatever industry we are in, we have to do all we can to fight and survive against all odds. And frankly, given all the shots radio has taken, it's a wonder it is here it still "is." Yes, tech hurt many genres of the business world. But, we have to give "ourselves" equal credit for doing a fair amount of the harm to ourselves. And by the way, you may disagree on various talking points here, but what "we" all did wrong in radio was simply stop being "we." Gone are the days of single owner stations that often had a bigger staff, a better sound and actually beat each other up on the streets all day, but could still share a beer that afternoon. Radio should not ever have been allowed to be a lame duck.

    Oh, and the fact that Cumulus is "selling" all their major market assets is certainly telling. So you are going to make up all this revenue in Market #100? Hmmm.
    Last edited by Tibbs4; 04-16-2019 at 02:39 PM.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    As we know, Cumulus traded WNSH 94.7, along with a couple of stations in Massachusetts to Entercom, in exchange for 3 of their stations in Indianapolis. This helps them become the dominant cluster in the Indy market.
    My question is, why would Cumulus greatly diminish their presence in the #1 market, and instead build up their holdings in a much smaller one?

    Cumulus/Indianapolis: http://www.insideradio.com/free/cumu...85e5a6c48.html
    Money and Demo's as of this posting that KLOS-FM has a deal to Meruelo Media under an LMA. Note Meruelo also owns KDAY and KDEY in Southern California.

    https://www.dailynews.com/2019/04/15...kpwr-and-kday/

    Also in the Talks that Los Angeles is not a Classic Rock friendly market due to the demos in the area though as noted in that thread though,
    Last edited by RadioPatrol; 04-16-2019 at 03:22 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadioPatrol View Post
    Money and Demo's as of this posting that KLOS-FM has a deal to Meruelo Media under an LMA. Note Meruelo also owns KDAY and KDEY in Southern California.

    https://www.dailynews.com/2019/04/15...kpwr-and-kday/

    Also in the Talks that Los Angeles is not a Classic Rock friendly market due to the demos in the area though as noted in that thread though,
    Meruelo also owns a TV operation in the market and has construction, food services, finance, real estate and casino / hotel interests.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tibbs4 View Post
    I A heart, a soul, a sense of connectedness to the listeners, smarter presentations, less concern for the damn flawed rating system that has also strangled the industry, calling ad agencies out on their utter walk away from the obvious demographics, our own lack of creativity and better marketing, use of old school advertising rules like seven minute SS and of course all the help from our friends at the FCC for managing to clutter up all the local FM dials with static, weak signals and a sound similar to that of AM radio on Germany in the 1940s.
    Stop blaming the ad agencies: they are intermediaries for their clients, who come to them with marketing plans, often with extensive research, and target consumers already determined.

    The long stop set is a product of PPM evaluation... it's the best alternative when you have to run commercials. And it has been in effect only since the PPM arrived, about 10 years ago. It's not an advertising rule, it is a measurement rule.

    The ratings system is about as good as you can get anywhere in the world. No poll is perfect, but to evaluate the pricing of radio stations, the current system is adequate and limited only by the sample size that radio is willing to spend for.

    As to radio in Germany in the 1940's, I heard a 135 kw WW II German transmitter which was installed in the Caribbean in the 60's... and it was, even after moving and reassembly, one of the finest sounding AMs I ever heard.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Tibbs4 View Post
    Gone are the days of single owner stations that often had a bigger staff, a better sound and actually beat each other up on the streets all day, but could still share a beer that afternoon. Radio should not ever have been allowed to be a lame duck.
    Tibbs, I guess you've never been to things like the NAB convention or CRS. I was just in Vegas for the NAB, and competitors still share beers. I know. I had a few.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tibbs4 View Post

    Oh, and the fact that Cumulus is "selling" all their major market assets is certainly telling. So you are going to make up all this revenue in Market #100? Hmmm.
    I don't think they're selling "ALL" their major market assets. Just the unprofitable ones. From what I see, they like the Chicago & Detroit clusters a lot, and probably won't sell them. As I said in another thread, the former ABC stations were overpriced and unprofitable. They're better off being sold.

    Sure the amount of cash flow is greater in NY & LA, but so are all the costs. If the net result is a loss, the cash flow doesn't matter, it still goes down at a loss. I've talked to recording artists about playing small venues vs. large venues, and what they said was they prefer selling out small venues than playing a half-empty large venue. That rule applies to radio too.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Connoisseur already owns Hot A/C WEZN, Star 99.9, in the Bridgeport area. I wonder whether their sound is sufficiently different from A/C WEBE 108 that both stations will be able to continue without significant changes.
    There is a lot of difference between Star 99.9 and WEBE 108. WEBE 108 still plays quite a bit of older music like from the 70s and 80s. I know Star 99.9 doesn't play the 70s. I don't know about the 80s. I haven't listened in years, but they used to play a lot of 90s and music from the 2000s.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcB View Post
    There is a lot of difference between Star 99.9 and WEBE 108. WEBE 108 still plays quite a bit of older music like from the 70s and 80s. I know Star 99.9 doesn't play the 70s. I don't know about the 80s. I haven't listened in years, but they used to play a lot of 90s and music from the 2000s.
    The Star playlist is also a lot harder than WEBE's. I tuned in yesterday after reading the original post and the first thing I heard on WEBE was Culture Club's "Karma Chameleon." The first song I heard on Star was Imagine Dragons' "Natural." Pretty sure only one of the two stations is playing either song. I actually listened to both stations for nearly an hour and the only shared artist I heard was Adele -- different songs, though.

  9. #29
    [QUOTE=TheBigA;6252823]Tibbs, I guess you've never been to things like the NAB convention or CRS. I was just in Vegas for the NAB, and competitors still share beers. I know. I had a few.



    I don't think they're selling "ALL" their major market assets. Just the unprofitable ones. From what I see, they like the Chicago & Detroit clusters a lot, and probably won't sell them. As I said in another thread, the former ABC stations were overpriced and unprofitable. They're better off being sold.


    I was not in Vega$$ this year. I get there when I can. Had I been, we certainly could have/should have had a beer, BigA. That would have been great. Coming to Nashville next Feb? I am usually there for some odd reason. (Note: I was referring to the "old days" and the beers, not a reflection on today's radio environment, although there are certainly fewer people to have that beer. Don't disagree with venue/market size, but like you have said over the years, when the cost of admission is so prohibitive that you can't walk out with a profit, then why do you do it.
    Last edited by Tibbs4; 04-16-2019 at 11:50 PM.

  10. #30
    [QUOTE=DavidEduardo;6252811][SIZE="3"]

    "Stop blaming the ad agencies: they are intermediaries for their clients, who come to them with marketing plans, often with extensive research, and target consumers already determined."

    WHY? From where I stand, agencies and larger advertisers miss a lot of potential customers because they look at an overall larger-scheme formula and that, to a degree, hurts everyone. Fortunately, there are some back doors to overcoming this situation and getting some buys. It is tough for sure, but not impossible. I hope you see my point, based on my perspective vs. say a strong cluster in market #XX.

    "The long stop set is a product of PPM evaluation... it's the best alternative when you have to run commercials. And it has been in effect only since the PPM arrived, about 10 years ago. It's not an advertising rule, it is a measurement rule."

    Don't disagree with your overview, here either David. I contend the ADS themselves need to change. Length. Message Content. Listeners don't want 60 seconds of fake filler script. "Say it and Play it" applies to PPM logic, yet you force people away with the equivalent on two songs length of ads? How does that make real sense? Especially when you are in a situation where a large portion of your ad revenue is generated on local businesses.

    "The ratings system is about as good as you can get anywhere in the world. No poll is perfect, but to evaluate the pricing of radio stations, the current system is adequate and limited only by the sample size that radio is willing to spend for."

    Don't disagree, especially if you are buying the book or can afford to buy the book, but there are lots of little mom and pop operators that are basically shut out by the cost and rules of engagement. Plus, sometimes, signal clarity is hurt by the encoding, etc. One size does not fit all, but the current system makes it tough on a small station or cluster. On this issue, I probably need to remain silent.


    "

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